Macedonia and the Greece propaganda

Originally posted by Macedonia
reply to post by s_m_1

 

ΔΗΜΟΣΘΕΝΟΥΣ
ΚΑΤΑ ΦΙΛΙΠΠΟΥ Γ’

…καὶ μὴν κἀκεῖνό γ' ἴστε, ὅτι ὅσα μὲν ὑπὸ Λακεδαιμονίων ἢ ὑφ' ἡμῶν ἔπασχον οἱ Ἕλληνες, ἀλλ' οὖν ὑπὸ γνησίων γ' ὄντων τῆς Ἑλλάδος ἠδικοῦντο, καὶ τὸν αὐτὸν τρόπον ἄν τις ὑπέλαβεν τοῦτο, ὥσπερ ἂν εἰ υἱὸς ἐν οὐσίᾳ πολλῇ γεγονὼς γνήσιος διῴκει τι μὴ καλῶς μηδ' ὀρθῶς, κατ' αὐτὸ μὲν τοῦτ' ἄξιον μέμψεως εἶναι καὶ κατηγορίας, ὡς δ' οὐ προσήκων ἢ ὡς οὐ κληρονόμος τούτων ὢν ταῦτ' ἐποίει, οὐκ ἐνεῖναι λέγειν. εἰ δέ γε δοῦλος ἢ ὑποβολιμαῖος τὰ μὴ προσήκοντ' ἀπώλλυε καὶ ἐλυμαίνετο, Ἡράκλεις ὅσῳ μᾶλλον δεινὸν καὶ ὀργῆς ἄξιον πάντες ἂν ἔφησαν εἶναι. ἀλλ' οὐχ ὑπὲρ Φιλίππου καὶ ὧν ἐκεῖνος πράττει νῦν, οὐχ οὕτως ἔχουσιν, οὐ μόνον οὐχ Ἕλληνος ὄντος οὐδὲ προσήκοντος οὐδὲν τοῖς Ἕλλησιν, ἀλλ' οὐδὲ βαρβάρου ἐντεῦθεν ὅθεν καλὸν εἰπεῖν, ἀλλ' ὀλέθρου Μακεδόνος, ὅθεν οὐδ' ἀνδράποδον σπουδαῖον οὐδὲν ἦν πρότερον πρίασθαι.

DEMOSTENES
AGAINST PHILIPP №3

...And know this too: Everything that the Hellens were suffering by the Lakedaemonians, or by us, they were suffering by blood of Hellas, and that is like, a son, real one, born in a rich house, is not managing the home like he should, so he deserves correction and objection, but you can’t say that he was doing all that as someone not close or successor of all that. But if a servant or a foster son destroys that, which not belongs to him, oh Heracles, how frightful and worthy of anger, anyone would say it is. But against Philipp and against what he does, they don’t say that, even that he is not a Hellen, nor anything close to the Hellens, and not even a barbarian from a country, worthy of saying something good about, but he is plague from Macedonia, from where a man, in earlier days, wouldn’t buy even a slave.

Where is yours?

First of all do you even know why demosthenes said that about philip??
his remark was political

from "Alexander the Great and the Hellenistic Empire" by A. R. Burn; Macmillan, 1948, p.4 he clearly explains why demosthenes was the only person to ever call macedonians barbarians

Macedonian kings were PROUD of their Greek blood, and it was ONLY JAUNDICED opponents like Demosthenes the Athenian who ventured to call them "barbarians." They claimed descent from Hêrakles through the Dorian Kings of Argos, and they learned the tales of Troy and of Odysseus, and the songs of the Greek lyric poets, as they learned their letters. Fifty years before Alexander was born, a King of Macedon had been proud to give a home to the aged "modernist" playwright, Euripides, eighty years old and sick and tired of a democracy which had led Athens into defeat and revolution, and whose philistines accused Euripides of preaching atheism and immorality..

so we have ONE ATHENEAN politician who called philip a barbarian because they were political opponents! (as I mentioned athenians had called many other greeks barbarians too)
What do you have to say about the thousand of other quotes by romans even indians clearly proclaming macedonians Greek!




[edit on 7-1-2009 by s_m_1]

Originally posted by s_m_1



(Quintus Curtius Rufus 5.8)

But he said, ‘If I were not Alexandros, I should be Diogenes’; that is to say: `If it were not my purpose to combine barbarian things with things HELLENIC, to traverse and civilize every continent, to search out the uttermost parts of land and sea, TO PUSH THE BOUNDS OF MACEDONIA TO THE FARTHEST OCEAN, AND TO DISSEMINATE AND SHOWER THE BLESSINGS OF HELLENIC JUSTICE and peace over every nation, I should not be content to sit quietly in the luxury of idle power, but I should emulate the frugality of Diogenes. But as things are, forgive me Diogenes, that I imitate Herakles, and emulate Perseus, and follow in the footsteps of Dionysos, the divine author and progenitor of my family, and DESIRE THAT VICTORIOUS HELLENES SHOULD DANCE AGAIN in India [...]"

Quintus Curtius Rufus was a Roman historian who is generally thought to have written his works during the reign of Emperor Claudius (41-54 AD). His only surviving work, Historiae Alexandri Magni, is a biography of Alexander the Great in Latin in ten books, of which the first two are lost, and the remaining eight are incomplete. His work is fluidly written, but reveals ignorance of geography, chronology and technical military knowledge, focusing instead on character. Demosthenes is GREEK PRIDE AND GLORY, REMEMBER?

What about of one of my posts about Plutarch??

I will be away about 2 weeks, till than find more valuable prooves and evidences and we will talk again.

Bye my friend

Originally posted by s_m_1

Originally posted by Macedonia


First of all do you even know why demosthenes said that about philip??
his remark was political

from "Alexander the Great and the Hellenistic Empire" by A. R. Burn; Macmillan, 1948, p.4 he clearly explains why demosthenes was the only person to ever call macedonians barbarians

Macedonian kings were PROUD of their Greek blood, and it was ONLY JAUNDICED opponents like Demosthenes the Athenian who ventured to call them "barbarians." They claimed descent from Hêrakles through the Dorian Kings of Argos, and they learned the tales of Troy and of Odysseus, and the songs of the Greek lyric poets, as they learned their letters. Fifty years before Alexander was born, a King of Macedon had been proud to give a home to the aged "modernist" playwright, Euripides, eighty years old and sick and tired of a democracy which had led Athens into defeat and revolution, and whose philistines accused Euripides of preaching atheism and immorality..

so we have ONE ATHENEAN politician who called philip a barbarian because they were political opponents! (as I mentioned athenians had called many other greeks barbarians too)
What do you have to say about the thousand of other quotes by romans even indians clearly proclaming macedonians Greek!




[edit on 7-1-2009 by s_m_1]

Who is A. R. Burn; Macmillan???
What are his evidences? I am talking about the original speech of Demosthenes!!!

There are many other historians that speculate about Macedonia and Greece. If i start with such posts, we will argue with years here my friend.
Show something original and valuable.

I really have to go now, see you after 2 weeks and dont be angry what really happened because we will never know.

reply to post by Macedonia


look we can sit here and argue for years as you said over whos quotes are right and whos is wrong but you have to also realise the biggest evidence is the ancient artifacts and inscriptions found which prove macedonia is hellenic!!

research as much as you want open your eyes but please do not visit propaganda sites.....

SM1 I'll give you a tip, don't bother actually arguing with these brainwashed individuals. The motto of this site is Deny Ignorance, these people are nothing more then disinformation agents spreading proapganda and lies, hoping that peoples ignorance will lead them to believing their attempts to re-write history.

Just post the facts, as my self and others have done, and watch as the Skopjian will scramble to find a reply, and eventually stop posting like the op who thought he was being smart.



These people aren't intelligent, they only know how to repeat propaganda they copy and paste from other sites.
You ask them a simple question, such as if Alexander the Great was not Greek, why did he take part in the Ancient Olympic games, when only Greek men were allowed to take part?..and they ignore it because they have no answer for it. I guess George Sorros and the UMD have not finished writing up their propaganda.

FYROM's history is still a fictional work in progress.

Bibliography about the Bulgarian Origins of Slavs in FYROM
historyofmacedonia.wordpress.com...

www.opencongress.org...
www.opencongress.org...

SKOPJE CONTRIBUTES TO ITS OWN INSTABILITY
andromeda.rutgers.edu...


The Metropolitan Museum of Art. New York.
www.metmuseum.org...
www.metmuseum.org...
www.metmuseum.org...
www.metmuseum.org...
www.metmuseum.org...
The British Museum. London.
www.britishmuseum.org...
www.britishmuseum.org...
www.britishmuseum.org...
www.britishmuseum.org...
The Louvre. Paris.
s173.photobucket.com...¤t=Louvre1.jpg
s173.photobucket.com...¤t=louvre2-1.jpg
s173.photobucket.com...¤t=Louvre3.jpg
s173.photobucket.com...¤t=louvre4-1.jpg
The Getty. Los Angeles.
www.getty.edu...
www.getty.edu...
www.getty.edu...
www.getty.edu...
www.getty.edu...
www.getty.edu...
The Hermitage. St. Petersburg Russia
hermitagemuseum.org...
The Fitzwilliam Museum. Cambridge
www-cm.fitzmuseum.cam.ac.uk...
and
img505.imageshack.us...
img395.imageshack.us...
img255.imageshack.us...
img387.imageshack.us...
img255.imageshack.us...
img139.imageshack.us...
img291.imageshack.us...
img386.imageshack.us...
img90.imageshack.us...

100 Modern historians verify ancient Macedonians were Greek
historyofmacedonia.wordpress.com...

"Macedonia" it is not worth it to argue with this individuals. I noticed that
what ever you say they will tell you that it is propaganda and it is not
true. As for BLV you say that im igrnorant have you seen yourself.
And another thing I agree that you were ancient culture
as we were, you were more focused on social and other directions , we
were more focused on military that is why we took some of your stuff.
You can say whatever you want, I will not argue anymore because it is
pointless, this is not a proper conversation, maybe we will agree on
something else. You can see now why we give the Balkan a bad name.
We hate eachother, Serbia, Bulgaria, Macedonia, Greece, Kosovo, Chroatia and other. If we continue like this we wont get far.

Moderator please dont delete this post.

The only "ancient" culture you are entitled to, is your Bulgarian Slavic one.
You are not fooling anyone.
You can twist words around all you like, but it wont change anything.
You see, your state sponsored propaganda, oops I mean education system, might easily fool you, but beyond FYROM's borders, the truth, HISTORY, the FACTS, are known.

Where were you people before 1945? You were Bulgarians.
You had an interest in Macedonia, as Bulgarians. You spoke/wrote Bulgarian, you still do, it is basically the same language with some variations made these days for obvious reasons.

Further, why isn't there any trace of your culture, your language(ancient of modern), from ancient times? Why are the only traces Hellenic?

What, have we, a nation of some 20 million including diaspora, been concealing the facts from the entire world for thousands of years ???

Your arguments make about as much sense as a 2 month old baby blurting out randoms sounds.

This is a reminder to remain on topic, which is "Macedonia and the Greece propaganda".

Please remain civil and refrain from posting about other posters.

Thank you.

The video is a project of the State TV (MRTV), Ministry for culture and the Diaspora agency .

Fascist Official Video of the FYROMian Government, on State TV [Full version]

www.youtube.com...

Blasphemous, Fascist and Racial Collectivist Infomercial by the Government of FYROM, on TV from January 2009, Depicting God Talking about "Macedonians" of FYROMian Type as Progenitors of the White Race.

Racial discrimination from the FYROM TV as regards the human races

[edit on 26-1-2009 by geforce]

Shocking News!!! FYROM’s Ultra-Nationalistic regime detains Vasko Gligorijevic from the “Slavic Philhellenic Network”

According to his own testimony which he published in the “Slavic Philhellenic Network” group in Facebook, Vasko Gligorijevic was arrested by FYROM’s regime police for unknown reasons up to now. What took place after his arrest is also unknown. Vasko’s last message was posted in FB saying “I am being arrested tonight. Pray for me all. The police is in my flat, they are searching it.” Its widely known that exercising one’s right to freedom of expression is an unknown term to FYROM’s regime when it has to do with criticizing the state-imposed Ultra-Nationalism prevailing today among FYROM’s population.

We remind Vasko Gligorijevic is an activist, strong criticizer of “Pseudomacedonism” and one of the leading members of The Slavic Philhellenic Network. The international community and especially the Human Rights Organizations should intervene energetically and put an end to stop this comedy. Freedom of expression went to Jail in FYROM!!

I am being arrested. The Police is in my flat

My personal comment is that FYROM(former Yugoslav Republic of Macedonia) is the only fascist country in Europe right now....Brainwashing Children with commie propaganda, stealing History from its neighbors(Greece, Bulgaria), arresting people for no reason etc. That Pseudostate has no place in the Europian Union.

Macedonia archeologists uncover 4,000 year old writing

Uncovered are the first traces of the old Macedonian language in the country, says "Dr. Dushko Aleksovski, paleolinguistics professor and honorary president of the World Rock Art Academy.

"This is a very rare artifact, the name of the Goddess Vesta is written on it. However, the first written name is Bsefa, which later became Vesta. This is the oldest artifact written in the old Macedonian language discovered on our territory." says Dr. Aleksovski.

The 4,000 year old signs written on the lid of the clay artifact, according to Dr. Aleksovski, are considered as a monumental discovery, first of its kind and very important for the paleolinguistics.

The discovery was made in central Macedonia, the precise location is being kept secret by the Government so the area doesn't get over run by archeological poachers looking for treasures and artifacts.//12.29.08


4000 ( FOUR THOUSAND ) years old artefacts uncovered in Macedonia .





( rough translation)

Makedonian Prey

Children of Sun & Flowers ; I have placed (on earth ) 3 races . White race is called Makenoids , Yellow race is called Mongoloids and Black race is called Negrids.

All humans are mongrels .

With Makedonians , I've started the White race and everything all the way to Japanese seas , began with Makedonians .

All white humans carry the makenoid gene , therefore you all are brothers and all migration towards north , have begun with Makenoids .


Makedonians are as ancient as the rest of them .

reply to post by 23432


Sorry, my intuition tells me, that your post is complete BS

Do you have any serious links to back up your report?

Ko3

Originally posted by kid_of_3NKi
reply to post by 23432

 

Sorry, my intuition tells me, that your post is complete BS

Do you have any serious links to back up your report?

Ko3

Thank you for your reply .

I am afraid the idea that the Macedonians do not know who they are , is the utter & total BS , IMHO .

Do you mean to say that these Macedonians are going to be able to fake a 4000 years old object ?


As for the Macedonian Praying ; here is the video of it .

I am not a Macedonian but I think they have a past too .

Sorry my intuition tells me that you are a bias person .

You see , you want to see a serious link .

You mean to say the very people who opress the humanity needs to verify this story and only then the Macedonian side's story is credible ?

We are denying ignorance , here on ATS , that is the common agenda , right ?

But then again , maybe you know something about those who opress and revise his-story , as a profession .

Just for the clarity of the issue , you believe in what ?

Can you please state it ?

I will assume you oppose the Macedonian story of who they are and where they came from .

BTW , I have read this thread and all I can see is that the Balkan people being silly to one of their own .


my 2pence

Greece To Help Iraq Cultural Reconstruction

(AP) Greece pledged Tuesday to provide financial and technical aid to help Iraq restore and conserve its damaged archaeological sites and museums.

Foreign Minister Dora Bakoyannis said Greece and Iraq have also agreed to build a monument honoring the Greek warrior-king Alexander the Great at an ancient battlefield in southern Iraq.

She was speaking after talks in Athens with Iraqi Foreign Minister Hoshyar Zebari.

Iraqi museums and sites suffered extensive damage and looting in the wake of the U.S.-led invasion in 2003. The National Museum of Baghdad, a treasure trove of artifacts from the Stone Age through the Babylonian, Assyrians and Islamic periods, fell victim to bands of armed thieves. Up to 7,000 pieces are still missing.

Zebari welcomed the Greek offer of cultural assistance, which he said followed an Iraqi request.

"We have great need of such assistance," he said, adding that technical committees from both countries would meet to discuss the details.

Zebari said the battlefield monument would underline the interaction of civilizations in the region.

It will be built near the city of Mosul, where Alexander won a crushing victory over a Persian army in 331 B.C. At the time, Iraq was part of the Persian Empire, which stretched throughout most of the Middle East.

Originally posted by geforce
Shocking News!!! FYROM’s Ultra-Nationalistic regime detains Vasko Gligorijevic from the “Slavic Philhellenic Network”

According to his own testimony which he published in the “Slavic Philhellenic Network” group in Facebook, Vasko Gligorijevic was arrested by FYROM’s regime police for unknown reasons up to now. What took place after his arrest is also unknown. Vasko’s last message was posted in FB saying “I am being arrested tonight. Pray for me all. The police is in my flat, they are searching it.” Its widely known that exercising one’s right to freedom of expression is an unknown term to FYROM’s regime when it has to do with criticizing the state-imposed Ultra-Nationalism prevailing today among FYROM’s population.

We remind Vasko Gligorijevic is an activist, strong criticizer of “Pseudomacedonism” and one of the leading members of The Slavic Philhellenic Network. The international community and especially the Human Rights Organizations should intervene energetically and put an end to stop this comedy. Freedom of expression went to Jail in FYROM!!

I am being arrested. The Police is in my flat

My personal comment is that FYROM(former Yugoslav Republic of Macedonia) is the only fascist country in Europe right now....Brainwashing Children with commie propaganda, stealing History from its neighbors(Greece, Bulgaria), arresting people for no reason etc. That Pseudostate has no place in the Europian Union.

www.zougla.gr...
And a translation for those that don't speak Greek.
Serb philhellene arrested in Skopje
Jan 28 2009, 20:42
Panayiotis Savvides
For violating of «makedonism» Vasco Gkligkorovits from FYROM, a Serbian activist was arrested. The news was made known today, and quickly spread to Greek, Serbian and foreign blogs.
Vasco Gkligkorovits recently created «SLAVIK Filellinic NETWORK» at Skopje, an NGO which aims to provide scientific arguments to serious allegations of neighbors on the origin ... directly from Alexander the Great and Bucephalus.
Student of history at the University «Cyril and Methodius» Skopje, Vasco Gkligkorovits, became known last September, when presented to a notary of the capital, to officially register his view, the identity of the self «Macedonian» FYROM.
He himself, after litigation, has again come to the Serbian last name and from ... Gligorov returned to Gkligkorovits.
Last June, the zougla.gr had hosted the views of the Serbian philhellene for the skopian conflict around the issue of the name of FYROM.
In neighboring FYROM, living their own ...«Macedonian» legend, is in force an Act of 1996, which prohibits any scientific research on the national identity of the residents.

VMRO Reign in FYROM: Europe's Only Modern-Day Fascist Regime

The Rosetta Stone Hoax: Pseudomacedonism's Sharpest Tool

The Early Pseudomacedonism: A Legacy of Bulgarian Irredentism

Freedom to Vasko Gligorijevic in FYROM

Blogger Missing For 1 Day - I Am Being Arrested Try To Get Some Help -Blogger IN JAIL

reply to post by 23432


Dear 23432,

Deny ignorance - i completely agree!

But again.. where is your proof? Just a picture which doesn't show any clear evidence is no proof, thus so far i can only rely on my intuition, which raises the BS flag regarding your post.

And, btw, the youtube link doesn't work.

Ko3

Hestia Fire Goddess (Greek) or Vesta (Roman) - The Chiron Dictionary of Greek & Roman Mythology The Complete World of Greek Mythology Vesta is the goddess of the sacred fires of the hearth, the heart of spiritual and emotional stability in your home. Her cult goes back to the 7th century BC.

The macedonian (slav) doctor claims that Vesta is a macedonian goddess?

Get over it people, most of todays macedonians are of pure bulgarian origin. Also the statement about Bulgaria not allowing macedonian political parties just because there is a fear of too many people voting for them is absolutely redicilous. The political system here is totally corrupt, yes, but I don't think there will be anyone voting for them (except the macedonians who have bulgarian passports).

Having said that I remind myself of the land my great-grandfather had in todays "Macedonia" but he was forced to move away as he and his family didn't want to lose their nationality for the power players' wealth.
You, as well as many others on the balcans have been brainwashed by the communist propaganda and are still living in a delusional reality. I hope someday this endless fight between macedonians and others slavs end.
Think for yourself! Question authority! Deny ignorance!

They(FYROM) actually have faked artifact findings before. It really is amusing and sad at the same time, the lengths they will go to prove their lies.

Look, these people are Slavs. There is no denying it, because it is a known fact.
Denying it either shows ones ignorance or hidden agenda.

What do we know about Slavic peoples history in this region?
Well what we know is that it started with their migration around the 6th to 8th centuries AD. Before this time, they were not present.

So, knowing these facts, it is very easy to understand that they are attempting to re-write history according to their agenda.

Now let me just state that a lot of the findings in Greece and beyond Greece's borders in regions were Ancient Greeks expanded, colonised, settled, traded with etc, many ancient artifacts of Greek origin can be found, just as Roman, Egyptian, Persian artifacts can also be found.

This so called 4,000 year old artifact may very well indeed be a legitimate artifact.
But it is not the remains of a past ancient Slavic-Skopjian-wanabe Macedonian civilisation as none ever existed.

reply to post by s_m_1




Please kindly show me what are the prooves.

Second thing: Visit www.historyofmacedonia.org

I hope some things will be more clear. There are some historians and their books that you should read, and than to come here and to talk about.

This is not advertising!!! Only some helpfull arguments are there.

By the way, there is a genetic research about the ancient people on Balcan by iGenea:

Greece:
10% Germanic
10%illyrians
20% slavs
20% phoenician
5% macedonian (in north more than 18%)
35% Hellenen


Macedonia:
30%macedonian
10% illyrian
15% hellenen
5%phoenician
20% germanic
5% hunnen
15% slavs

more: www.igenea.com...