Job! Jobs! Jobs! Cheering on our own slavery. Employment bubble popped. Fight against work., page 22

posted on Sep, 23 2011 @ 11:54 AM

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Originally posted by macman
And what lies were sold?
The loans clearly state, adjustable rate mortgage, interest only mortgage, balloon interest after 5 years and non-fixed rate.
What is so difficult to understand. Any 4th grader could define these. If the signer of the loan doesn't understand them, then they really have no business signing documents and making large purchases.

Did they understand them as a whole? Yes, I believe they did.

While I agree with you in principle, I do believe you are simplifying things a little. You see, the American public became so uneducated, arrogant and prone to gratuitous spending that a lot of these people should not have been exposed to these products in the first place. You don't give a loaded gun to a 1st grader. I'm sure you and I can handle firearms just fine, but we don't trust kids to do that.

Ultimately, the fine print in financial papers is not always easy to decrypt (and I have background in both science and finance). I'm not inclined to absolve these people from their responsibilities, but I do believe that the mortgages should have been regulated like controlled substances. For example, complete and utter scrutiny should have been given to income and job situation of applicants -- we know now that this was not always the case.

FieldCmdrCohen

posted on Sep, 23 2011 @ 12:06 PM

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reply to post by dingleberrysalad

In a sense, the vast majority of Americans *have* boycotted the system. Not on purpose, of course. They didn't decide to stop signing up for McMansions and new financed cars and consumer geegaws they couldn't really afford to begin with. Now, with 45% of working-age men unemployed in America (!) and youth / young adult unemployment at 1930s levels and even people with college degrees at unemployment levels unseen in America for 40 years, people just don't have the credit to "buy" things.

This is why you see luxury goods selling so well and yachts selling so well and advertising agencies deciding to quit focusing on the non-wealthy -- that's the 90% of us making under $250K per year.

FieldCmdrCohen

posted on Sep, 23 2011 @ 12:11 PM

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reply to post by doobydoll

Good on you! And I'm glad the UK still has enough of a social safety net in place, even if it requires a petition to your MP and letters to the press to get basic shelter.

We in the U.S. are not quite so enlightened, and we're going to keep going in the wrong direction until the kind of people posting here just say "Sorry, done with that."

Done with the mortgage, the consumer goods, the cell phone contracts, the watching celebs instead of enjoying our own families and friends, done with all that debases our selves and further enriches the very richest.

macman

posted on Sep, 23 2011 @ 12:24 PM

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Originally posted by buddhasystem

Originally posted by macman
And what lies were sold?
The loans clearly state, adjustable rate mortgage, interest only mortgage, balloon interest after 5 years and non-fixed rate.
What is so difficult to understand. Any 4th grader could define these. If the signer of the loan doesn't understand them, then they really have no business signing documents and making large purchases.

Did they understand them as a whole? Yes, I believe they did.

While I agree with you in principle, I do believe you are simplifying things a little. You see, the American public became so uneducated, arrogant and prone to gratuitous spending that a lot of these people should not have been exposed to these products in the first place. You don't give a loaded gun to a 1st grader. I'm sure you and I can handle firearms just fine, but we don't trust kids to do that.

Ultimately, the fine print in financial papers is not always easy to decrypt (and I have background in both science and finance). I'm not inclined to absolve these people from their responsibilities, but I do believe that the mortgages should have been regulated like controlled substances. For example, complete and utter scrutiny should have been given to income and job situation of applicants -- we know now that this was not always the case.

Oh come on.
Didn't your parents teach you "if it's too good to be true, then it is"?

From what you pitch, the natural next step is to deem people too dumb to make decisions.
As opposed to the truth, that the signers did not think it through and/or just wanted the instant gratification without caring about the 5 year consequence.

buddhasystem

posted on Sep, 23 2011 @ 12:30 PM

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Originally posted by macman
From what you pitch, the natural next step is to deem people too dumb to make decisions.
As opposed to the truth, that the signers did not think it through and/or just wanted the instant gratification without caring about the 5 year consequence.

I don't see a lot of contradiction between these two sentences of yours, and I lean to agree with the former, to a degree.

macman

posted on Sep, 23 2011 @ 12:37 PM

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Originally posted by buddhasystem

Originally posted by macman
From what you pitch, the natural next step is to deem people too dumb to make decisions.
As opposed to the truth, that the signers did not think it through and/or just wanted the instant gratification without caring about the 5 year consequence.

I don't see a lot of contradiction between these two sentences of yours, and I lean to agree with the former, to a degree.

It is still their choice to make, good or bad.

Shawny2222

posted on Sep, 23 2011 @ 01:08 PM

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I was talking about this very topic with my mom yesterday. I am currently unemployed and it saddens me that, in order for me to continue to have a roof over my head and food in my belly, I have to subject myself to a having a job that is meaningless and steals my happiness. Think of how many people groan about going to work day in and day out because they have to! It's difficult for every single person to find their "dream" job that will pay the bills. I hope that is what you were saying...it's how I see it. For one, where I live, there a no jobs at all. But, even if there were, they would all be jobs I would rather refuse because I know in the end I will just end up miserable! And trying to get out of it is very hard for a lot of people. It seems like it is desgined that way too. I once took a job because it was the only job to take at the time and I seriously ended up in the hospital from a mental and emotional breakdown. I do not want to do that to myself ever again.

Posted Via ATS Mobile: m.abovetopsecret.com

nightbringr

posted on Sep, 23 2011 @ 01:19 PM

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reply to post by Shawny2222

Might I ask what it is you do now to keep a roof over your head and food in your tummy?

As miserable as a job you dislike may be, i imagine living on the streets, starvation, or being a welfare leech would be much worse.

edit on 23-9-2011 by nightbringr because: (no reason given)

macman

posted on Sep, 23 2011 @ 01:33 PM

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Originally posted by Shawny2222
I was talking about this very topic with my mom yesterday. I am currently unemployed and it saddens me that, in order for me to continue to have a roof over my head and food in my belly, I have to subject myself to a having a job that is meaningless and steals my happiness. Think of how many people groan about going to work day in and day out because they have to! It's difficult for every single person to find their "dream" job that will pay the bills. I hope that is what you were saying...it's how I see it. For one, where I live, there a no jobs at all. But, even if there were, they would all be jobs I would rather refuse because I know in the end I will just end up miserable! And trying to get out of it is very hard for a lot of people. It seems like it is desgined that way too. I once took a job because it was the only job to take at the time and I seriously ended up in the hospital from a mental and emotional breakdown. I do not want to do that to myself ever again.

Posted Via ATS Mobile: m.abovetopsecret.com

HOLY CRAP!!

You are unemployed, there are some jobs in the area yet you refuse to work them because they would steal your happiness?

I only hope that your unemployment checks run out soon, as the rest of us working are providing for ourselves.

buddhasystem

posted on Sep, 23 2011 @ 01:38 PM

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Originally posted by macman

Originally posted by Shawny2222
I was talking about this very topic with my mom yesterday. I am currently unemployed and it saddens me that, in order for me to continue to have a roof over my head and food in my belly, I have to subject myself to a having a job that is meaningless and steals my happiness. Think of how many people groan about going to work day in and day out because they have to! It's difficult for every single person to find their "dream" job that will pay the bills. I hope that is what you were saying...it's how I see it. For one, where I live, there a no jobs at all. But, even if there were, they would all be jobs I would rather refuse because I know in the end I will just end up miserable! And trying to get out of it is very hard for a lot of people. It seems like it is desgined that way too. I once took a job because it was the only job to take at the time and I seriously ended up in the hospital from a mental and emotional breakdown. I do not want to do that to myself ever again.

Posted Via ATS Mobile: m.abovetopsecret.com

HOLY CRAP!!

You are unemployed, there are some jobs in the area yet you refuse to work them because they would steal your happiness?
I only hope that your unemployment checks run out soon, as the rest of us working are providing for ourselves.

Dude, read this guy's post again. He states he's having a mental breakdown. Go easy on him

gentledissident

posted on Sep, 23 2011 @ 01:48 PM

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Originally posted by macman[/i
You are unemployed, there are some jobs in the area yet you refuse to work them because they would steal your happiness?

I've talked to many people on unemployment who refuse to take a job that's beneath them. A lot of them lost a "worthless job" that I wondered how was sustained. However, a mechanism of the system is "steal happiness". We're duped into thinking it's a requirement. I remember reading somewhere about the right to pursue happiness.

macman

posted on Sep, 23 2011 @ 01:53 PM
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Originally posted by gentledissident

Originally posted by macman[/i
You are unemployed, there are some jobs in the area yet you refuse to work them because they would steal your happiness?

I've talked to many people on unemployment who refuse to take a job that's beneath them. A lot of them lost a "worthless job" that I wondered how was sustained. However, a mechanism of the system is "steal happiness". We're duped into thinking it's a requirement. I remember reading somewhere about the right to pursue happiness.

By all means pursue it, find it, do what ever.
If you refuse to work, don't complain about an empty stomach, worn shoes and the rain on your face when you try to sleep.

This is a prime example of why the unemployment checks should be capped at 3 months.

gentledissident

posted on Sep, 23 2011 @ 02:18 PM
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Originally posted by macman
This is a prime example of why the unemployment checks should be capped at 3 months.

I completely agree. I think that would bring the revolution quickly.

nightbringr

posted on Sep, 23 2011 @ 02:54 PM
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Originally posted by gentledissident
I've talked to many people on unemployment who refuse to take a job that's beneath them. A lot of them lost a "worthless job" that I wondered how was sustained. However, a mechanism of the system is "steal happiness". We're duped into thinking it's a requirement. I remember reading somewhere about the right to pursue happiness.

Funny, i consider sitting on welfare, taking money out of other hard working citzens pockets to be beneath me.

Since i did not have any money when i graduated highschool, i worked two full time jobs i did not enjoy for a few years in order to make enough money in order to educate myself and finally get the job i wanted. I hated the jobs, but i knew by working hard and applying myself, i would get to where i wanted to be. I work my new job (that i enjoy) to get the money to provide for my family and enjoy the fruits of my labor. If i was on welfare, i wouldnt be able to do the things i love. Soon ill be leaving for Austria on my snowboard trip with friends! Life is good!

Our system is NOT designed to "steal our happiness". Everyone in this life is responsible for making their own happiness. No government or system should ever dictate to me what "happiness" is. Those who blame the government or capitalism for their lack of joy in life are passing the buck. Grow up, be a man and make life what you want it to be.
edit on 23-9-2011 by nightbringr because: (no reason given)

gentledissident

posted on Sep, 23 2011 @ 03:20 PM
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Originally posted by nightbringr
Grow up, be a man and make life what you want it to be.

Where did the "grow up" comment come from? Was it directed at me? I am slaving at a job I don't enjoy. Some people have mentioned that they do 4 hours of work in an 8 hour day. I would get fired if I weren't working every single minute at my job. I've been doing this for over 4 years and am tired of wasting my life. I am too jovial to be taken seriously by the neocons that could match my pay at any other job. My only other choice is part time or get a low paying job where I have free time on the job to pursue my projects. My projects aren't designed to rape the public for my livelihood, so they are not life sustaining. They are for enjoyment and making a statement. I am making life the way I want by coming here and making a statement. There are a lot of people reading what I and others like me type. I'm sure someone is waking up.

QueenofWeird

posted on Sep, 25 2011 @ 10:56 AM
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reply to post by KevinBally

My idea. I sometimes fantasize about the Star Trek replicators that would produce everything, not only food.

But then we need scientists, technicians and so on for the machines and a flow of atoms to use the nano technology on. How are they going to be paid? How much compared to what? What are they going to use the credits for if the replicators create everything?

In the mean while, I have chosen to work ony three days. Which in my situation is possible.

poet1b

posted on Sep, 25 2011 @ 01:05 PM
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reply to post by macman

Who is laughing? Your knee jerk heart bleeding response is wrong.

I am laughing because your constant use of right wing catch phrases make you look like a programmed zombie incapable of independent thought. Exactly how is it heart bleeding to call for going after the real crooks in the mortgage bubble?

The biggest lie told was that the real estate market would always continue to go up.

The reason the banks got by making these loans is because they were allowed to rate bad loans as good loans. Page after page you continue to post in ignorance of this established fact, even though I have pointed it out numerous times.

Yeah, these people were stupid for taking the ridiculous terms of these loans, no disagreement here, but being stupid isn't a crime. Even if you were smart enough to avoid those ridiculous loan terms, you still over paid for your house if you bought a house in the last ten years. You still got screwed.

So you might want to rethink your stance of making stupidity a crime.

Most of the people who agreed to the ridiculous loans terms did not plan on not making their payments. They believed they would meet the demands, and planned on keeping their dream homes, wanted to keep them. They had no intention of committing any crimes.

The people at the top of the whole pyramid scam knew the system was doomed to fail. They intentionally committed crimes. Your bleeding heart right wing reaction is to immediately come to the aid of the poor super rich, and concentrate on attacking people who foolishly agreed to unrealistic mortgage terms.

Can you understand the difference?

It is sad how much you don't get.

edit on 25-9-2011 by poet1b because: missing r

macman

posted on Sep, 25 2011 @ 01:37 PM
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reply to post by poet1b

Catch phrases? I wish. I would charge to use them. Kind of like billboards.

It is the fault of the person signing the loan. Regardless if they did not plan either way.
Now, if the market were allowed to correct itself, on its own, like say foreclosing on those that could no longer make the payments, this process would have ended a lot sooner.

It is the fault of the banker, as they wrote the loans knowing that the person signing the paper was worth nothing.

It is the fault of the Govt for pressing the idea that "all can have a home", and making it an option for the banks to construct such loans.

And it is the fault of society, which has instilled on the masses that "right now, now now now" is the way.

LapsedPacifist

posted on Sep, 26 2011 @ 07:46 AM
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This is fantastic thread S&F for you.

I have in recent months found myself thinking about this very thing everyday. I think the reason people don't live their dreams is because they don't even know what their dreams are, they don't get time to dream because they're locked into this treadmill, when they are not working they are worrying about work or not working. For generations we have just spawned a new batch of workers for the treadmill. I'd never had these thoughts before but it just doesn't make any sense to me anymore, nothing makes any sense to me anymore..have I broken my programming? This has never felt so unnatural to me before, this realisation didn't come from anything that I'd read or been told, it just came to me from nowhere like a bolt from the blue. Just a very strong feeling of "hang on...this isn't right is it?"

I've worked ever since I left school 20 years ago, I am currently working a little part-time job which allows me to dream and question, I work for my mother, this makes sense...a small business that offers alternative therapies, this makes a lot of sense to me and I am happy with it. I think I'm lucky that I'm this situation, so many people just can't see anything but the treadmill because they are not allowed the time, it makes me very sad. I think we've probably discovered the answer here on this thread. If only we were allowed to do what we were meant to do, to think, to create and to dream, but "they" don't want that. Boo to the prison that is society.

I just wanted to add my voice here in this thread, thankyou for creating it

ExPostFacto

posted on Sep, 26 2011 @ 08:01 AM
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reply to post by LapsedPacifist

I think you have come to realize is that the system is rigged against our freewill. There really is no freewill once you sign the dotted line to accept a paycheck. Sometimes you are even required to treat others with no respect, and you do so willingly just so you can keep a paycheck coming in. I do not think this way of life is natural with our human nature. Employers increasingly want robots to work for them. They do not want new ideas. When they tell you they want their employees to think of ways to improve things, many employers really mean they want a free way to make more money. This does not apply to every employer, but many are heading into the profit first, people last direction. If you have been in the work world 20 something years then you know it has changed significantly.

When I started working 20 something years ago companies cared about people. They really did. You got time off when you needed it. The boss was more then willing to bend over backwards to make sure you could pick your child up from daycare on time. If you had some event to attend the boss would find coverage for your shifts. Now you have to be an executive to get these perks and everyone else is just a paycheck away from homelessness.