Job! Jobs! Jobs! Cheering on our own slavery. Employment bubble popped. Fight against work.

Originally posted by poet1b
reply to post by macman

 

Once again,

THE BANKERS INTENTIONALLY COMMITTED CRIMES,

while the people losing their homes simply, foolishly, agreed to harsh terms that they hoped they could meet, with no intent on defaulting.

This is the reality you refuse to acknowledge.

Please show me the criminal court proceeding and the verdict for the crimes you have stated.

I would love to read through the court docs and such.

And, just to point out, that your second paragraph states that the signer was foolish, but still signed the agreement.


Both sides are to blame.

One for offering, one for accepting.

Originally posted by Aeons
The system doesn't allow for growth.

The system means giving over every aspect of human life to a system that you have to hope will be a benign dictatorship.

It removes reward for innovation, and indeed discourages it as being disruptive to the system.

It presumes that everyone would be happy in this system, which would make anyone who is not an enemy.

It is based on conformity of thought, so variation from it would be traitorous.

It presumes work is free.

It would lead to a system of expansionism as the needed extra resources must be provided from outside this system to float the vast numbers of the lazy - and yes, they are lazy.

It requires a controlled monoculture.

Work is a necessary function of energy production, even in an agrarian system. Presuming that food comes without work is not just selfish, but literally contrary to physics. Automation would mean even worse mono agriculture, or to go the other way requires work. Which then removes the entire basis of your system.

That'd be beginning.

Actually I think you misinterpreted the post. What I argue is a separation of work and food. In fact, I argue that food and shelter are a basic human right. How a human right to food and shelter makes someone a conformist slave to a benign dictatorship needs some explanation. Because in fact it frees people from working simply to pay their bills and wait for the next check so they can....pay their bills.

You seem to assume that all innovation, all hard work and all creativity come from being an economic player in an economic game. You seem to assume that the capitalist economy is the ONLY thing that gives people incentive and motivation. Nothing is further from the truth. Having to work a job only diminishes creativity, innovation and hard work. Socially, if we implement a right to food and shelter, creativity and innovation would skyrocket because of all the free time and energy we have.

Work is not free but its getting there. Let technology do the work and you dont even break a sweat. Thats pretty free to me.

Originally posted by doctornamtab

Actually I think you misinterpreted the post. What I argue is a separation of work and food. In fact, I argue that food and shelter are a basic human right. How a human right to food and shelter makes someone a conformist slave to a benign dictatorship needs some explanation. Because in fact it frees people from working simply to pay their bills and wait for the next check so they can....pay their bills.
.

Because when the master, that provides you food and shelter says jump, you better reply with "how high".

Originally posted by macman

Originally posted by doctornamtab

Actually I think you misinterpreted the post. What I argue is a separation of work and food. In fact, I argue that food and shelter are a basic human right. How a human right to food and shelter makes someone a conformist slave to a benign dictatorship needs some explanation. Because in fact it frees people from working simply to pay their bills and wait for the next check so they can....pay their bills.
.

Because when the master, that provides you food and shelter says jump, you better reply with "how high".

Why do you think that the only way to get things done is with massive central planning, heirarchy and control structures? Those things are breaking down right before our eyes. We've tried that for 10,000 years and its never worked. Every fallen empire is evidence of this.

reply to post by macman


What makes you think we, the people, can't grow enough food for each other? Without central distribution. Its the only way we got food for a long, long time. We grew it. Near our homes. Imagine that

If you told someone 100 years ago how complex our argicultural industry would be they wouldnt even believe you.

Originally posted by doctornamtab

Originally posted by macman

Originally posted by doctornamtab

Actually I think you misinterpreted the post. What I argue is a separation of work and food. In fact, I argue that food and shelter are a basic human right. How a human right to food and shelter makes someone a conformist slave to a benign dictatorship needs some explanation. Because in fact it frees people from working simply to pay their bills and wait for the next check so they can....pay their bills.
.

Because when the master, that provides you food and shelter says jump, you better reply with "how high".

Why do you think that the only way to get things done is with massive central planning, heirarchy and control structures? Those things are breaking down right before our eyes. We've tried that for 10,000 years and its never worked. Every fallen empire is evidence of this.

It always comes down to someone having to be in control.
What is the quote from the Patriot movie, "why should I trade one tyrant three thousand miles away for three thousand tyrants one mile away"

What you suggest is a commune. That is all fine, but not for me.
No thanks.

What I work for is mine to benefit from, no one else.

reply to post by poet1b


Making claims that redefine context so that black is white and white is black doesn't do anything for me.

Originally posted by macman

Originally posted by doctornamtab

Originally posted by macman

Originally posted by doctornamtab

Actually I think you misinterpreted the post. What I argue is a separation of work and food. In fact, I argue that food and shelter are a basic human right. How a human right to food and shelter makes someone a conformist slave to a benign dictatorship needs some explanation. Because in fact it frees people from working simply to pay their bills and wait for the next check so they can....pay their bills.
.

Because when the master, that provides you food and shelter says jump, you better reply with "how high".

Why do you think that the only way to get things done is with massive central planning, heirarchy and control structures? Those things are breaking down right before our eyes. We've tried that for 10,000 years and its never worked. Every fallen empire is evidence of this.

It always comes down to someone having to be in control.
What is the quote from the Patriot movie, "why should I trade one tyrant three thousand miles away for three thousand tyrants one mile away"

What you suggest is a commune. That is all fine, but not for me.
No thanks.

What I work for is mine to benefit from, no one else.

So you obviously make your kids work for their food right? No freeloaders, right? Of course not. That'd be ludicious. You're family and family doesnt do that. Well what if ALL people were your HUMAN FAMILY. When we step outside of our egotistical little selves, this is the truth. We are all family, we all have one home, Earth. So divisive little games like this is mine, that is yours is selfish, short sighted and just not true. You imagine that you own your land because its written on a piece of paper.

Someone has to be in control because people dont believe in each other. We think exactly the way you're thinking about this thread. "Someone is going to take your stuff. Someone is going to control you." When in reality, you are free. The only way to free EVERYONE is to work together and believe that we deserve true freedom.

I'm not saying its going to be some utopia but its definiately not a commune. Its nothing like a commune and I never even used those words. A right to free food would create an OPTIONAL MARKET ECONOMY. If you want more stuff to hide away from your human family, thinking its yours to own, then by all means join the optional market economy. In this thread no one has mentioned taking anything from you or anything from anyone else. All I've ever talked about is providing basic life necessities to EVERYONE by fully implementing technology and human empathy, both of which are in states of stagnation right now.

reply to post by doctornamtab


I don't misunderstand you - I'm not participating in your delusion. It isn't the same thing.

Originally posted by macman

Originally posted by doctornamtab

Originally posted by macman

Originally posted by doctornamtab

Actually I think you misinterpreted the post. What I argue is a separation of work and food. In fact, I argue that food and shelter are a basic human right. How a human right to food and shelter makes someone a conformist slave to a benign dictatorship needs some explanation. Because in fact it frees people from working simply to pay their bills and wait for the next check so they can....pay their bills.
.

Because when the master, that provides you food and shelter says jump, you better reply with "how high".

What I work for is mine to benefit from, no one else.

Not in this world, it isn't. You really think the benefit of all your hard work goes to you and only you?
If you don't have to pay for your food and shelter, the work you do could very well be only for yourself, if that's what you really want. Not everyone thinks like that, a lot of people are happy to help others when they can.

Originally posted by Aeons
reply to post by doctornamtab

 

I don't misunderstand you - I'm not participating in your delusion. It isn't the same thing.

Naw you're here to start arguments and feel better about yourself when other people give up on you. You got a better solution than a right to free food and shelter? We'd love to hear it.

Yeah - work.

In a flexible system, there should be outlets for those who cannot do for themselves. I'm happy to participate in those.

We do not have the same goal out of society. Your goal is to do as little as possible. I don't agree.

Originally posted by doctornamtab

Originally posted by macman

Originally posted by doctornamtab

Originally posted by macman

Originally posted by doctornamtab

Actually I think you misinterpreted the post. What I argue is a separation of work and food. In fact, I argue that food and shelter are a basic human right. How a human right to food and shelter makes someone a conformist slave to a benign dictatorship needs some explanation. Because in fact it frees people from working simply to pay their bills and wait for the next check so they can....pay their bills.
.

Because when the master, that provides you food and shelter says jump, you better reply with "how high".

Why do you think that the only way to get things done is with massive central planning, heirarchy and control structures? Those things are breaking down right before our eyes. We've tried that for 10,000 years and its never worked. Every fallen empire is evidence of this.

It always comes down to someone having to be in control.
What is the quote from the Patriot movie, "why should I trade one tyrant three thousand miles away for three thousand tyrants one mile away"

What you suggest is a commune. That is all fine, but not for me.
No thanks.

What I work for is mine to benefit from, no one else.

So you obviously make your kids work for their food right? No freeloaders, right? Of course not. That'd be ludicious. You're family and family doesnt do that. Well what if ALL people were your HUMAN FAMILY. When we step outside of our egotistical little selves, this is the truth. We are all family, we all have one home, Earth. So divisive little games like this is mine, that is yours is selfish, short sighted and just not true. You imagine that you own your land because its written on a piece of paper.

Someone has to be in control because people dont believe in each other. We think exactly the way you're thinking about this thread. "Someone is going to take your stuff. Someone is going to control you." When in reality, you are free. The only way to free EVERYONE is to work together and believe that we deserve true freedom.

I'm not saying its going to be some utopia but its definiately not a commune. Its nothing like a commune and I never even used those words. A right to free food would create an OPTIONAL MARKET ECONOMY. If you want more stuff to hide away from your human family, thinking its yours to own, then by all means join the optional market economy. In this thread no one has mentioned taking anything from you or anything from anyone else. All I've ever talked about is providing basic life necessities to EVERYONE by fully implementing technology and human empathy, both of which are in states of stagnation right now.

edit on 16-10-2011 by doctornamtab because: (no reason given)

Yes, I provide for my children, and guess what?
When I say to do something, like chores or what ever, they do it, as I am in control.

To equate everyone to family? No thanks.

It is a nice, pie in the sky attitude, but will not work.
Ain't for me.
I don't like relying on others for my success, or to provide me food or shelter.

Originally posted by doctornamtab

Originally posted by Aeons
reply to post by doctornamtab

 

I don't misunderstand you - I'm not participating in your delusion. It isn't the same thing.

Naw you're here to start arguments and feel better about yourself when other people give up on you. You got a better solution than a right to free food and shelter? We'd love to hear it.

Let me guess.. tax everything more so that they have more money to do the things they tell us the need to do to protect us and keep us free to buy anything we want.

reply to post by macman


You're all about control huh? You imitate the dominator model in your own home. You are the master, they are the slaves.

A sustainable, work to eat economy is a pie in the sky idea. Its not going to last ten years let alone two years. The world you're defending is falling apart before your very eyes, read a paper.

Originally posted by elocin

Originally posted by macman

Originally posted by doctornamtab

Originally posted by macman

Originally posted by doctornamtab

Actually I think you misinterpreted the post. What I argue is a separation of work and food. In fact, I argue that food and shelter are a basic human right. How a human right to food and shelter makes someone a conformist slave to a benign dictatorship needs some explanation. Because in fact it frees people from working simply to pay their bills and wait for the next check so they can....pay their bills.
.

Because when the master, that provides you food and shelter says jump, you better reply with "how high".

What I work for is mine to benefit from, no one else.

Not in this world, it isn't. You really think the benefit of all your hard work goes to you and only you?
If you don't have to pay for your food and shelter, the work you do could very well be only for yourself, if that's what you really want. Not everyone thinks like that, a lot of people are happy to help others when they can.

edit on 16-10-2011 by elocin because: (no reason given)

Does it work that way now?
Hell no.
My taxes state that in the most obvious way.

Is it supposed to be that way?
Hell yes.

If you don't think that way, by all means, do what you want. But forcing others who disagree, to give up part of their earnings is wrong.

Nothing is stopping anyone from doing and/or giving to others.
I do it on my own and my terms.
My choice.

There is the issue that alot of people always miss or conveniently overlook.

People of my mindset enjoy helping others.
It is when we are forced to, is where the issue comes from.

reply to post by macman


Now I don't agree with this. This is the opposite end of the system, and in the modern era this idea would have you removed from play and absorbed into another system that isn't so silly.

Originally posted by doctornamtab
reply to post by macman

 

You're all about control huh? You imitate the dominator model in your own home. You are the master, they are the slaves.

A sustainable, work to eat economy is a pie in the sky idea. Its not going to last ten years let alone two years. The world you're defending is falling apart before your very eyes, read a paper.

Yep, because I go home and scare the family with my brutish ways.
Nice application of Alinsky Rules.

The world is not falling apart, It is in upheaval.

The idea of personal property and responsibility has been around for thousands of years, and will remain long after this hiccup.

You have Chicken Little painting with a very broad brush.
What better way to excite the panic, and push people towards this Socialist idea.

reply to post by macman

Because when the master, that provides you food and shelter says jump, you better reply with "how high".

These are the words of a slave.

The better way to live is without a master. If you have skills, then you have no master.

I tell my kid if she wants something, she has to work to get it. If she wants clean room, she must clean it. I don't have to bark orders. It is a very effective life lesson.

Work isn't doing what you are told, work is doing what you need to do in order to get what you want.

My boss doesn't tell me what to do, because he doesn't know how to do my job. The people I do work for contact me, and ask me to work for them. I don't ask people for a job. They are not my masters, they are people who need my skills. And there are plenty of them out there.

The problem is the ICs who control the money supply. You don't get that, and obviously you never will, because of the way you think. You blame government for the problems created by the ICs, because you don't want to see your master for what it is.

Originally posted by macman

Originally posted by doctornamtab
reply to post by macman

 

You're all about control huh? You imitate the dominator model in your own home. You are the master, they are the slaves.

A sustainable, work to eat economy is a pie in the sky idea. Its not going to last ten years let alone two years. The world you're defending is falling apart before your very eyes, read a paper.

Yep, because I go home and scare the family with my brutish ways.

Nice application of Alinsky Rules.

The world is not falling apart, It is in upheaval.

The idea of personal property and responsibility has been around for thousands of years, and will remain long after this hiccup.

You have Chicken Little painting with a very broad brush.
What better way to excite the panic, and push people towards this Socialist idea.

There it is! I knew you'd scream Socialist! soon enough.

I dont know why I even bother arguing with military people. Their true selves have been broken down with almost scientific precision and then built back up with the value system of the established evil empire.

I dont blame you for your selfish, greedy and short sighted opinions. They're not really yours. They've literally been beaten into you.