Job! Jobs! Jobs! Cheering on our own slavery. Employment bubble popped. Fight against work.

Originally posted by Ufokrazy
We should go back to barter system.

Sure. If your willing to give up your car, internet, phone, and just about every modern convienence known.

I really have no idea what this would solve in any case. If someone wants to price gouge, they can just as easily ask you for 10 chickens and a cow rather than the fair 5 chickens and a goat. Lack of paper money makes no difference in that aspect.

reply to post by macman


GW is no longer in the white house, Thank God, but the vast number of problems he created still haunt us.

The only thing Obama has failed at is fixing the huge mess created by 10 years of repub control of the fed gov.

Too bad GW didn't take the enormous federal debt he created with him.

reply to post by macman


This is quite the mobster mentality you got.

Not in a position to turn it down and gun to the head are 2 different things.

No, they are the exact same thing.

I love the fact that you believe that people are just too stupid to take responsibility for their life and choices. The Govt HAS to step in and take charge.

Gee, then we should just get rid of the police and the courts and everything. Why have a government?

You can sit at home all day with a loaded gun making sure the neighbors don't eat your children.

You should move to a third world nation where the government definitely does not look out for the welfare of the people. What were those old people saying when they wrote the constitution?

reply to post by nightbringr


Oh, I blame the borrowers, but I see the lenders as the worst offenders.

Why don't you blame the lenders. They are the ones screwing us all over, far more than the borrowers, by driving up the price of everything, with the whole can that investors create anything. They only create more debt.

Originally posted by jaomba
Work with it and you can enjoy a happy life, fight it and live bitter and disappointed.

Why would I want to participate in a system that disgusts me? I'm not bitter nor disappointed. I have no disillusionment. Yes, we can change your system by dropping out of it. It's happening right now.

reply to post by gentledissident


How is it you are "dropping out" of it?

If it's by refusing to get a job and being a welfare leech I have no respect for you.

Originally posted by poet1b
reply to post by macman

 

GW is no longer in the white house, Thank God, but the vast number of problems he created still haunt us.

The only thing Obama has failed at is fixing the huge mess created by 10 years of repub control of the fed gov.

Too bad GW didn't take the enormous federal debt he created with him.

Obama was never going to fix anything. Don't be naive.
His whole plan was to compound the issue, thus ushering in a new era of Govt control.

It wasn't just GW, it was the ghosts of Presidents past as well.

Originally posted by poet1b
reply to post by macman

 

This is quite the mobster mentality you got.

Not in a position to turn it down and gun to the head are 2 different things.

No, they are the exact same thing.

I love the fact that you believe that people are just too stupid to take responsibility for their life and choices. The Govt HAS to step in and take charge.

Gee, then we should just get rid of the police and the courts and everything. Why have a government?

You can sit at home all day with a loaded gun making sure the neighbors don't eat your children.

You should move to a third world nation where the government definitely does not look out for the welfare of the people. What were those old people saying when they wrote the constitution?

No they aren't one in the same. Twisting the definitions to suite your argument just isn't becoming of you.

The banks did not force anyone to sign the paperwork, nor did they shuttle people into the offices.
Free will!!

And I love, just LOVE how you go from one extreme to another to try to prove a point. But, you failed.
The encroachment of control being flexed by the Govt is on its spiraling way to total control.
To go from no control and intrusion to total is not the answer.
Limited Govt was how this country was drafter and designed to operate.

Originally posted by nightbringr
reply to post by gentledissident

 

How is it you are "dropping out" of it?

If it's by refusing to get a job and being a welfare leech I have no respect for you.

Man, some of you are on edge like an American astronaut. Where in this thread has that been advocated? If you'd like a real reason to be on edge, work to live off grid with free energy and grow your own food. The death threats from utilities and the men in black should give you a reason. If that's too much work and conviction for you, just stop buying the products of corporations AKA the government.

Death Threats

Well written post, op. Our reality is illusory in so many levels. Truly astounding yet refreshing to see so many people that think as I do existing in this age. Maybe Terence McKenna was right and the coming singularity is not a simple pipe dream but a true event. From lolcats to our realization of collective status as slaves, the Internet is allowing us to form one united conciousness and gradually awaken from this chasing of a "dream" imposed by the controller$. We are skynet, we are the one we've been waiting for.

I'd like to jump back in here and say something.

1) Many people consider the choice as thus: Work a crappy job, live on the street or live in Wyoming on some hippie commune. THIS IS NOT A CHOICE! This is a death sentence. Nothing reinforces my point more than this "choice" that either you work to eat at a useless job or you eat out of restaurant dumpsters. Don't you see that by offering this "choice" you are actually expressing my point: that work-to-eat society is slavery. Its obvious we are slaves when the only choices are between homelessness, a slow, meager death in rural Wyoming or a job that does nothing for society. Like I said before, the world can't employ us ALL as doctors, scientists and firemen.

The idea is not to go backwards, and live off the land, scraping by. We know that sucks. That's why we invented cities. So STOP offering up this false choice of tribal existence or city slavery. We CAN have many of the creature comforts of modern society without having to submit ourselves to jobs. This is the purpose of this post. To show that we can have both. So stop saying to throw away our computers or work a slave job. This is not a choice.

2) Entitlement and living off others. Lets get one things straight. The ones leeching off society, off our work are not the ones on welfare. How can someone who has nothing be taking from you? Its the rich who leech off us. They take all the profits of our labor, "streamline" their job force and call it a moral economy. They take and steal and leave the world worse than they found it. Stop thinking the poor are taking your money. Its the rich who do NOT work and make hundreds of times what they pay their workers. Think about it, in a fair world wouldnt that rich man have to work 100 jobs to make 100 times your paycheck? That's a moral economy - not the master-slave economy WE STILL HAVE FROM 10,000 YEARS AGO!! So stop, just stop thinking the poor are living some grand, chadelier and hot tub existence off your labor. Its a lie fed to you by the media which, imagine this, is OWNED by the super rich.

There are some that made money, like the fella who nets 700K, who's are honest, good people. Heres my question for that guy. Instead of buying apartments and things to make YOU more money, why not use your money to make the world better for everyone? Philantropy. Money is a TOOL to make the world better, not something to leave to your kids. Besides, that money you're leaving your kids is worth less and less every generation (thanks to the Fed's money printing frenzy). So instead of leaving your children a small fraction of the purchasing power you have right now, why not ensure their future by investing in new ideas, in people. This is the way to ensure your children's future. By investing in the future of society, not apartment buildings and IRAs. That helps no one but yourself and its a shameful use of such an important resource.

So the entitled ones are NOT THE POOR! They are the rich who take the profits we make for them. Some employers are fair, most are not. Most use and abuse their employees and bleed their labor power dry. This is what we are fighting against. Not the poor but the rich. There is NO virtue in being rich. Use your money to make the world better. Die penniless but with a rich soul and clean conscience.

3) Self Interest - Sorry but people do not work out of self interest EXCEPT in the economy. The economic rules FORCE us to act self interested. Otherwise we'd get taken advantage of because all the other economic actors are acting selfishly. Human beings are NOT inherently selfish. People are only selfish because they must survive an economic system that rewards selfishness. What people want is purpose and meaning. People want to belong. This is why we have kids, why we work certain jobs, why we create art, etc. I still cant believe people think we're selfish creatures by nature. It boggles my mind. Do you cut in line at the post office? Do you drive like a jackass? Do you steal whenever you get the chance? Of course not. If you think people are naturally selfish, this makes the good person some mutant abberation of the human species? When, in fact, good people are the norm, not the exception. Except in the economy of course, then the whole things flip flopped. So separate your view of human nature into two camps: Human nature in a work-to-eat economy and human nature in real life.

4) Going back...- "We should go back to this" or "We should go back to that" or "You just want to go back to tribal life". Ok, lets think FORWARD. The hardest part of coming up with a new idea is NOT reeling backward and rehashing old ideas like the barter system and communism. If these worked we'd still use them. But they dont. So we need something NEW. Something like I advocate - free food and shelter, optional market economy and random appointments to political offices. Putting power back in our hands in a step forward, not backward.

Originally posted by poet1b
reply to post by nightbringr

 

Oh, I blame the borrowers, but I see the lenders as the worst offenders.

Why don't you blame the lenders. They are the ones screwing us all over, far more than the borrowers, by driving up the price of everything, with the whole can that investors create anything. They only create more debt.

Im really not sure why the lenders are the target of your ire. Yes, they send out letter after letter asking for you to sign up to their credit cards or take a loan off of them. Thats their jobs and how they make money. Nothing, and i mean NOTHING forces someone to take these loans. If you take out a loan, you are expected to repay it, plus interest.

Interest isnt evil, but its somthing i refuse to pay. Therefore i save up before i purchase anything. This includes my vehicles. I have never bought a new car, because i did not want to pay interest. I save up and buy up front, saving huge amounts of money in the long run. This way i never stretch myself thin. When i purchased a house, i bought well under what i could afford. This allows for financial difficulties, loss of job, etc. Its called financial responsibility.

Perhaps fiscal responsibility should be taught in school, as it is obviously a lost art. I cannot for the life of me blame lending institutions when the responsibility lies solely with the loanee. As another poster above me mentioned, no one is holding a gun to anyones head and forcing them to sign.

If someone takes a loan from a bank for a home they can barely afford, leaving no leeway whatsoever for economic hard times, THEY are to blame when they cant make payments and default on their loan. If it was found banks were blackmailing people into purchasing said homes, i would agree with you whole heartedly. But that isnt the case, is it?

I suggest if the consumer wasnt so greedy and wanted everything NOW and instead saved for what they wanted, this wouldnt be a problem. Maybe parents should be teaching their kids how to manage their money better. Again, its not the governments responsibility to babysit us. I dont want more government, i want less.

Originally posted by doobydoll

Originally posted by buddhasystem

Originally posted by doobydoll
I am ECSTATIC that I am no longer chasing my tail trying to keep the damn wolves from my door. I am happier now than I've been for the longest time, and anyone who has a problem with that can kiss my lily-white arse.

Of course! You are a loser who now elected to be a leech. The kids that you claim you have raised don't give a rat's poont about you, Mom, so you exploit your country's socialist trends and freeload off others. So much to congratulate yourself with, my favourite loser!

Ha! Like I give a fig what a self-opinionated boor like you says. Like you know anything about me and my family.

Well, I thought you presented your situation rather well, didn't you?

Meanwhile, I'll go and put my feet up in the sunshine and ponder how I will enjoy the rest of my leisurely life

Go right ahead.

Oh and by the way BS, have a nice day at work

Thank you, I rather enjoy it. It's rather challenging and allows to pay my family expenses. Good stuff, really.

ETA: I'll dare bet you're single

We have multiple kids. I'll make sure they grow up knowing that it's not OK to be a parasite.

reply to post by nightbringr


Actually the borrowers responsibility is not to loan money to people they can't afford to pay back, and it is an abuse of their position as banks able to create money through the fractional reserve.

What we really need to do is bring back the bankruptcy laws to where they were before repubs messed up a system that worked fine.

Banks take the risk. It is their responsibility to not lend money to people who can not afford to borrow that money.

You want to pretend that loan sharking isn't wrong, it makes you look morally bankrupt yourself.

reply to post by macman


Yeah, pretend all you want, people chose to buy over priced homes made with risky, slick worded loans to save their dreams of home ownership.

The dream of home ownership was destroyed for an entire generation because of the crooked schemes of the bankers, and sucker who don't think people have the right to actually own property.

Once again, you fail to grasp the principles this country was founded upon. Even if you avoided the sleazy mortgage deal, you bought less of a home than those who took the bait, and your home value is underwater, and probably will be for more than a decade.

This wan't the first run up of this kind, and probably won't be the last, and the story is well written. Fools who chose to ignore the past paid the price.

You are like the horse in "Animal Farm" who winds up getting sent to the glue factory. Capitalists are working their hardest to set themselves up as the new aristocrats, and you are one of the people helping them. Fooled by communism repacked as the free market.

reply to post by gentledissident


Well I really don't want death threats against me or my family, so I guess I'll just carry on with my happy life!

I work to make money to enjoy the fruits of life! I love travelling the world and snowboarding. Can't wait to see Austria for the first time this winter!

Originally posted by poet1b
reply to post by nightbringr

 

Actually the borrowers responsibility is not to loan money to people they can't afford to pay back, and it is an abuse of their position as banks able to create money through the fractional reserve.

What we really need to do is bring back the bankruptcy laws to where they were before repubs messed up a system that worked fine.

Banks take the risk. It is their responsibility to not lend money to people who can not afford to borrow that money.

You want to pretend that loan sharking isn't wrong, it makes you look morally bankrupt yourself.

I almost have more respect for the loan shark than the idiot loanee who buys a house he SHOULD know he can't possibly afford. In the early days, natural selection would have bred out those people.

reply to post by doctornamtab


oozes of truth.

reply to post by poet1b


the truth is it is alterations to conditions carried out after the loans were taken that caused bad loans , for example hikes in minimum lending rate , taking away the ability to pay in advance ( you could pay a bit extra each month then if you had payed over a month extra and you were short you could miss a month at no cost , now they class you as missing a payment and charge you dispite being 3 or 4 months in advance ) , they also charge exta for cash , check etc the only way to pay with no extra charge is direct debit , you also get charged for statments . These increases in charge added to wages in real terms going down caused the probles . So why the charges not to help the banks and loan firms but to give the bosses high salary increases and bonases . Gread at the top leavels in the problem and those at the bottom must suffer for it .

Originally posted by poet1b
reply to post by macman

 

Yeah, pretend all you want, people chose to buy over priced homes made with risky, slick worded loans to save their dreams of home ownership.

The dream of home ownership was destroyed for an entire generation because of the crooked schemes of the bankers, and sucker who don't think people have the right to actually own property.

Once again, you fail to grasp the principles this country was founded upon. Even if you avoided the sleazy mortgage deal, you bought less of a home than those who took the bait, and your home value is underwater, and probably will be for more than a decade.

This wan't the first run up of this kind, and probably won't be the last, and the story is well written. Fools who chose to ignore the past paid the price.

You are like the horse in "Animal Farm" who winds up getting sent to the glue factory. Capitalists are working their hardest to set themselves up as the new aristocrats, and you are one of the people helping them. Fooled by communism repacked as the free market.

Ah, an Animal Farm reader. That speaks volumes.

Sorry, but people chose to buy the home. No one forced them.
The fact that home values have plummeted is sad, but a sad truth that nothing remains constant and static.
Things rise and fall.

The difference is I expect everyone to take responsibility for their own actions, you don't.
You want to blame the system, or blame the mouse trap for killing the mouse, when it was the choice of the mouse to take the cheese.
Everything has consequences, you seem to forget this basic truth.