Job! Jobs! Jobs! Cheering on our own slavery. Employment bubble popped. Fight against work.

It is one theory amoungst many.

And I can still break your little party up in two letters.

NO.

How sucky is it that your whole system of human endevours can be destroyed by two little letters?

reply to post by poet1b


You are right, and so few seem to realize this fact, that the industrialization that took place in this country around the turn of the 20th century that ruined the lives of so many working men and their families was only reigned in by government regulation. I say that so many were ruined because they were used up by their bosses like mules and discarded when they were beaten down for only pennies a day. All this while the rich owners were squandering their money on the most lavish lifestyles living in ornate mansions. Most people these days are so anti-government that they don't realize that it was only due to government intervention that things got turned around to the polint that life was so good in the period you referred to - when a man could work one job and support his family and put a roof over their heads. If only we could go back to those days...

Originally posted by Aeons
You jump from problem to solution with no thought in between. And your solution sucks.

Oh, is that the problem. I didn't know you thought we thought it would happen overnight. My plan has always been for an honest government to compete in the free market by selling necessities to non government workers, and rewarding government workers with necessities. If the government always low balls and isn't subsidized in its business, it might have a monopoly on necessities. I would then open avenues for luxuries we depend on to be government run. Again, it would be opt in. Eventually the government would be the best game in town, and the people would own the means of production. This only works if there aren't evil people controlling the operation. History has shown that rotten people are attracted to a valiant idea. So, really all we can do is wish for a real government/country where life is free and easy. We can do something similar in communal living. Through numbers and innovation, the workload can be small and spare time great. It would pale to the effect on a grand scale, but such is the nature of awful people and the people who will take their bait.

Here is an artistic vision of the world of tomorrow I dream of.

Get this through your head.

I don't want to live on a commune.

You can live on a commune in a more flexible system than yours. Go ahead. Start one up. You'll notice that the often fail or go snakey after a generation, but don't let that stop you.

Instead you want *ME* to live in a commune. No. I don't like you that much.

Originally posted by poet1b
reply to post by macman

 

But the military is still a government created and taxpayer supported organization. You support the military, then you support where most of your taxes go, so quite trying to pretend differently. I served as well, and support the military, I just don't pretend differently, and complain about having to pay taxes.

I don't like everything about the government, but I don't blame the government for all of my problems like you seem to do.

As far as past links, do your own research, and stop expecting me to do your work in looking for the truth. You could have taken the time to look up that information on your own, which is what you should do. Asking for proof when you could find that proof on your own is just being stubborn, in your situation, in your support of corporations.

If you don't want ATS cred, then why are you here trying to defend it.

Blah blah blah.
No proof of Criminal Court proceedings, no proof of a crime. Just state you don't have it.

Thanks,.

I am not, nor have I blamed the Govt for my problems. Where do you create this fantastic world that you speak of?

Originally posted by doctornamtab
reply to post by macman

 

Putting that quote there makes it seem like you have an undying loyalty to the government and military . It makes you seem rigid and unshakeable in your beliefs, because, lets face it, war is awful. Why would anyone support it? You know better than we do how bad war is. So to have a quote that immediately tells us that we wont be friends because of your unwavering support of the military, it may make people judge you to be a "hard headed, rah-rah America's-never-done-anything-wrong" type.

The military is a government agency to a lot of people. Its a part of the government. I understand your experience but its not the same for a lot of us non military folk. To us the military kills poor, foreign people to line the pockets of rich people. Sorry, but A LOT of people are anti-war, any war, all war. The concept of war.

Could be why you're running into problems. You seem like a decent guy and you're pretty smart. Maybe find a different quote thats closer to what you mean.

edit on 16-10-2011 by doctornamtab because: (no reason given)

edit on 16-10-2011 by doctornamtab because: (no reason given)

I will keep my signature, thank you.

The Military is there for 2 things really. To kill people and blow stuff up.
I am not anti war, please don't mistake that.
I know what war brings, what is it used for and why it is there.
How it is waged now days is appalling.
But, thanks to you and Poet1b, we are off topic.

Now perhaps there should be criminal proceedings. That's an idea worth entertaining. Are these institutions using their clout to push around politicians and the judiciary to not bring forward charges that should be entertained? Quite possibly.

If that's so, Then the judiciary needs to be given a bigger and more independent stick to go after heavily resourced corporations with.

I'd suggest that all corporations be made to pay an amount of money into fund that is used solely for helping float the costs of having to monitor and prosecute them for their bad behaviours. To even out the clout. Showing good corporate citizenship is rewarded after a couple of years with a lessened levy. Bad corporate citizenship is punished by having enough money to do the job for them that they won't do themselves.

Originally posted by Aeons
Get this through your head.

I don't want to live on a commune.

You can live on a commune in a more flexible system than yours. Go ahead. Start one up. You'll notice that the often fail or go snakey after a generation, but don't let that stop you.

Instead you want *ME* to live in a commune. No. I don't like you that much.

Or could it be, that the successful communes have no reason to advertise their success? You only hear about the failed ones from the failures. I know people on communes and have been living there for upwards of 20, 30 years. They work and they work really well. The working communes are pretty much invite only. They dont want chumps there ruining it for everyone.

Originally posted by doctornamtab

Originally posted by Aeons
Get this through your head.

I don't want to live on a commune.

You can live on a commune in a more flexible system than yours. Go ahead. Start one up. You'll notice that the often fail or go snakey after a generation, but don't let that stop you.

Instead you want *ME* to live in a commune. No. I don't like you that much.

Or could it be, that the successful communes have no reason to advertise their success? You only hear about the failed ones from the failures. I know people on communes and have been living there for upwards of 20, 30 years. They work and they work really well. The working communes are pretty much invite only. They dont want chumps there ruining it for everyone.

Good for them. Off you go then.

They have a built in fail-safe, by having a community around them to dump the disaffected into. You get that, right?

reply to post by Aeons


Oh you're just a hater. Off you go to another thread to start more fights and nit pick people's posts.

What are you even arguing FOR? You just fight AGAINST everything with no purpose or coherent set of beliefs.

Its a fight for the sake of fighting.

Say, wait a minute. Wait a GODDAMN MINUTE! This is my ex girlfriend isnt it?

I have something that you can't comprehend.

A cohesive set of beliefs about a complex system.

reply to post by Aeons


Well what is it pray tell???

Yeah cmon. If you've got so many problems with the world whats your solution?

You know mine, or at least part of mine, a right to food and shelter.

So lets hear this complex belief system that I'm too dense to comprehend.

reply to post by doctornamtab


I realize this is an incredibly old thread, but I want to thank Doctornamtab for voicing these ideas so eloquently. The ideas you have stated here are almost identical to the ones I have been coming to myself. I'm only on page 14 of this thread right now, but I'm working towards getting through the entire thing.

Maybe we can even pick the conversation back up and expand on ideas for spreading the vision.