Job! Jobs! Jobs! Cheering on our own slavery. Employment bubble popped. Fight against work.

Originally posted by macman
I worry about me and mine.....I don't really care if you succeeded or not..... I don't live my life pondering if my neighbor is successful.

Originally posted by macman
I wish you all the best.

Doesn't "I wish you all the best" sound a little insincere for someone who proclaims to be selfish and uncaring?

Originally posted by gentledissident

Originally posted by macman
Sorry, but blame is a weak method of coping. And it takes away time from correcting the issue, instead of looking to find someone else to be mad at.

We are certainly required to determine fault when it comes to a problem. It's a major part of fixing the problem.

Sometimes blame can be misplaced. Did you play this blame game?

I worry less about blame, and I fix the problem and move on. That is the reason why I succeed in life.

And stop with the Bush crap. He is gone. That was then, this is now.

Originally posted by macman

Originally posted by Janky Red

Originally posted by macman

Originally posted by poet1b
reply to post by SanguineDenial

 

The only thing keeping you in a system you claim so loudly to hate is your addiction to its products.

Sorry, but the system of slavery that is being put into place is not the system that provides us with our modern lifestyles. That they have convinced people like you that you must be a wage slave, always in debt to the corporate bankers, and so many like you, is a sad indicator of how we are letting our liberties and standards of living slip away.

You shouldn't have to go off the grid to be free.

What we need to do is strip the ICs of their power and influence over our government and thereby our l lives. We need to shut down the use of government to support International Corporations, with worker paid taxes and government debt which the ICs intend to stick on the backs of the U.S. workers.

Or just get out of personal debt, and amass your own wealth.

WE will continue on this path until people stop blaming others for the failures, misfortunes and decisions.

Yet we will ever get anywhere if fraudulent dynamics built into the system aren't removed.

The entities that perpetuate this depend on "until people stop blaming others for the failures, misfortunes and decisions" because it protects their fraud from any meaningful examination, investigation or termination.

I do not disagree with your sentiment, I disagree with how it is leveraged in the halls of power.

edit on 17-9-2011 by Janky Red because: (no reason given)

And therein lies the difference, I worry about me and mine. You worry about others.
I don't really care if you succeeded or not. It is great when others do, and I wish you all the best. But, I don't live my life pondering if my neighbor is successful.

You are copping out, suggesting it is a bad thing to care about my country and countrymen is a pretty interesting way to document your character. Outside of the government (which you are against) there are the people, which,
IMO is the only thing that really matters about America. It seems you are contemptuous for both, you hate the
government and you don't care about the people either way. I ask what is left, without the people???

To make matters worse is you get gouged by the same system - from taxes to the cost of oil, which was
finally verified to have been manipulated by private forces at mass. Unless you live in a tribal setting,
you have been getting fawked just the same.

The best you can do, is suggest that my caring about my American brothers is an evil concept, I ask why do you
bother posting about the politics that effect everyone? If you are immune to the outside world, why do you care?

It is clear you do, so if you are going to respond to me, why don't you try substance, instead of a doctors note?

Originally posted by gentledissident

Originally posted by macman
I worry about me and mine.....I don't really care if you succeeded or not..... I don't live my life pondering if my neighbor is successful.

Originally posted by macman
I wish you all the best.

Doesn't "I wish you all the best" sound a little insincere for someone who proclaims to be selfish and uncaring?

Selfish and uncaring in what way?
Because I don't think I am responsible for everyone else?
Because I wish to reap the rewards of my success?

You equaling me not caring if you succeed to being uncaring is a stretch.

And no, I do wish the best for everyone. I want all to succeed. But not on my merits or my work.

reply to post by Janky Red


OOOH NO. A snarky retort.
I require no permission from any Doctor.

Do I care about the course of the country, taxes and the system as a whole?
Sure do.
Am I going to spin my wheels fighting it, right now, in some vain attempt in self satisfaction so I can tell everyone "I fought the system"? No.
I will continue to vote with my money and ballot.
I will continue to save for my future, teach my kids everything that I can and provide for my family.

Originally posted by macman
reply to post by Janky Red

 

OOOH NO. A snarky retort.
I require no permission from any Doctor.

Do I care about the course of the country, taxes and the system as a whole?
Sure do.
Am I going to spin my wheels fighting it, right now, in some vain attempt in self satisfaction so I can tell everyone "I fought the system"? No.
I will continue to vote with my money and ballot.
I will continue to save for my future, teach my kids everything that I can and provide for my family.

I am saying how can anyone who is willing to fight the system succeed, if there are a hundred million people
suggesting that ALL the systems problems are really just the consequence of the lazy and unemployed?

What you achieve with your attitude, knowingly or not, is ensure that the legitimate problems of the larger
whole are pinned to the foreheads of the nameless, faceless individuals who are "the real villains".
In effect the criminal behavior of the system architects can ignored altogether cause you have just
averted attention.

Is it your fault, that Multi national Oil Barron disrupt oil production and then make you pay for their bet, on top of the product itself?

I could really careless what you do , but I sure as hell do care if your are getting screwed by the same
system I live in, simply because that means 8/10 I am getting screwed too.

If that concept doesn't make sense to you, you should think about it until it does, you would be wiser for it.

reply to post by macman


You don't have to fight the system, that is the problem, you think fighting will get you a reward, life is not about fighting at all. What you have to do is leave the system plane and simple without fighting it, if you wish to get out and see the rest.

People like you have been indoctrinated that fighting solves everything, in fact this shows you are part of that system, the indoctrination you have inside of you that fighting everything will solve everything. This is induced to you by violence in movies you see, by the news you view, in your walking life, suronding you, giving you the feel
that this fighting, and violence will solve your problems, so you say to your self "I must fight" like everything is a war zone, this is your mind.

Enjoy.



Life is not about fighting, it's not about working, life is about something else. If you tell me that life is about working 8 hours a day or even more then you are ling to your self, or maybe it is something you do not take notice of because you have been indoctrinated this way and you do not notice it.

It is abnormal to do these things since life should be about joy, you spend more than half a day at work.
By doing this you repeat a cycle everyday, since you do it every single day then after a while it becomes a norm. The definition of a norm, the word norm from norm-ality(normality) normal, the norm that you work as a slave. Since everyone does the same they also find it normal, since you live in a society everyone thinks like you, it is a social collective, everyone has the same doctrine because they have repeated doing this every single day of their lives. When you look the other way you see it, when you ask your self ? is life about this ?

Originally posted by macman
And stop with the Bush crap. He is gone. That was then, this is now.

Well, did you?

Originally posted by pepsi78
Since everyone does the same they also find it normal, since you live in a society everyone thinks like you, it is a social collective, everyone has the same doctrine because they have repeated doing this every single day of their lives.

I hear "this is what my "parents believe, so I know it to be true". The church becomes part of society and indoctrinates us into religion. The corporations come into our lives though advertisement and graft. They make mindlessness and violence acceptable. The government reaches us through propaganda and the military. The military is a very powerful indoctrination tool combining a collective and repetition.

reply to post by macman


Just getting out of debt is not enough.

As long as the banks are able to keep practicing their predatory lending practices, we are all screwed by higher prices everywhere.

There needs to be a serious crack down on the way banks are allowed to conduct fraudulent business. Reinstate usury laws setting a max allowed interest rate, and strict control on how credit ratings are made. Current credit rating policies are designed to encourage people into getting in debt over their head, and current bankruptcy laws allow banks to avoid risk for their questionable business practices.

We can't stop people from getting in debt, but we can stop the banks from creating this massive debt. Banks exist on a charter, essentially as an extension of the government, and so they should be reigned in by the government, which is the job government is supposed to do.

Until people wake up and start using the government for its purpose, we will all continue to be screwed.

Originally posted by poet1b
reply to post by macman

 

Just getting out of debt is not enough.

As long as the banks are able to keep practicing their predatory lending practices, we are all screwed by higher prices everywhere.

Until people wake up and start using the government for its purpose, we will all continue to be screwed.

The founding fathers of the USA told us as much. People simply don't care. Now its just a matter of seeing how bad will things become before people wake up and start to push back. As it stands its so much like a frog slowly being boiled. Stalin killed millions of his own countrymen and it took generations for that system to change. To me I see the root of the problem is a lack of accountability. Massive wealth does not mean massive responsibility. Once upon a time nobility were said to have a duty to wield their command for the benefit of those subject to them. This is no longer true. Like any system ever conceived by man, it is created with the best of intentions. Along the way the greedy pervert it and the ignorant masses are apathetic to it. Sometimes intellectual dissidents become vocal and are either killed or more tragically those that they are trying to enlighten simply do not have the will or capacity to hear the message.

The world cannot live at the level of its great men.

reply to post by SanguineDenial


Maybe you personally aren't into debt, but you are embracing the system that creates massive debt.

As far as my attitude towards work, did you read my earlier response to you?

www.abovetopsecret.com...

Yes, people still need to work, but we could work a whole lot less. Technology has brought us to the point, where we do not need to work as much as we did in the past for us all to live decent lives.

The European solution to this is to cut the work week, and increase the vacation time, and that is what we should be doing.

I think the biggest problem is that lots of people like to be in charge, they like to tell others what to do, and dictate their lives. The bigger problem is that we have too many control freaks screwing things up for everyone else.

Personally I think work is a good thing, but too often these days, what is called work is just a bunch of political games, that only serve those who like to play politics, instead of doing real work.

You stated;

There are already examples of this society without jobs. There are vast tracts of urban decay where entire subcultures have lived without working for generations.

No, there are not. There are areas with lots of poor people, where many of them are on welfare, but many of them also work. Criminals tend to live in these areas because their life choices prevent them from living in better areas. I don't buy the whole poverty creates crime myth, but I also don't blame most of our countries problems on welfare recipients and ghetto thugs. That is foolish.

The criminals who are screwing everyone over are extremely rich crooks who live in very nice neighborhoods. They are the ones with an insatiable appetites for wealth and power who are turning large areas of our planet into toxic wastelands, and sending out the thugs to kill and rape the people of the world.

And the ICs are financing their global empire with debt that they plan to burden on the people of the U.S., so in that manner, we are all publicly in debt over our heads.

Yeah, we are all working the system to keep afloat, but that doesn't mean we should ignore the fact that some very evil people have managed to gain too much power,and they are screwing things up for everyone. I don't know if you have noticed, but the current way ICs are conducting business is down right dirty and mean, and it has nothing to do with with survival in the market place. Our markets do far better when business conducts itself appropriately.

Our liberty and our standards of living are going backwards, getting worse, not better. Do you recognize this?

Well here's my two cents worth.....First great post! You described the situation with great clarity and I love it!!!

I work in a job that wouldn't be necessary if people decided to go back to the old ways of communicating and living. If they all kicked their TV sets out, unplugged their phones and shut down their computers I would be OUT OF WORK.

With that said, I realize that the delusion we are all living in will not last forever. I agree that if all the worlds’ big businesses were hit for at least ONE DAY with no profits, they would wake up and realize WE THE PEOPLE can regain control. I've started studying survival skills, things that will be useful when the electrical grid blows up and there's no more power. I have started stocking up on basic necessities and I've started a garden. I'd like to do it on a much bigger scale though, you know? It would be incredible if I could get more people in my condominium complex to get out and help me plant LARGE gardens around the property. Make community gardens and get more people involved to ensure more than just me and my family are ok.

I live in AZ and I hate to say it but the majority of people out here are MEAN. If you look at them wrong then they start yelling at you. So to get my community together would be next to impossible. I guess I can dream…..

reply to post by SanguineDenial

The world cannot live at the level of its great men.

I think living in the modern world is pretty sweet. Most of us live pretty darn good, if you live in a first world nation. Even our poor live pretty good. That is not the problem.

The problem is that our current economy is ran on ever increasing levels of debt, and that is not sustainable. We are sitting in first class on the Titanic, and corporate captains are foolishly plowing at full speed through seas with icebergs all around us.

I am unable to join in screaming "# jobs" at the moment.
I recently got hired into a position that starts me out at 70k a year after taxes.
Unfortunately, seeing that I am now single and live alone, this is going to be one job I simply cannot say good-bye to right now.

Originally posted by poet1b
reply to post by SanguineDenial

 

Personally I think work is a good thing, but too often these days, what is called work is just a bunch of political games, that only serve those who like to play politics, instead of doing real work.

You stated;
"There are already examples of this society without jobs. There are vast tracts of urban decay where entire subcultures have lived without working for generations."

No, there are not. There are areas with lots of poor people, where many of them are on welfare, but many of them also work. Criminals tend to live in these areas because their life choices prevent them from living in better areas. I don't buy the whole poverty creates crime myth, but I also don't blame most of our countries problems on welfare recipients and ghetto thugs. That is foolish.

I in no way blame all of societies problems on the poor or on the tracks of ghetto. Those areas tend to trouble themselves while the rest of society goes on around them. They are a hiccup and a tragedy but they also demonstrate that people won't miraculously become a utopia if they are freed from labor.

The criminals who are screwing everyone over are extremely rich crooks who live in very nice neighborhoods. They are the ones with an insatiable appetites for wealth and power who are turning large areas of our planet into toxic wastelands, and sending out the thugs to kill and rape the people of the world.

I agree with you completely, the system needs a major purge. It still think it is more good than bad. I have often pondered what I have dubbed 'rational capitalism.' In such a system it would be the same as that we have today only that no one individual would be able to earn X amount more than the most basic member of society. No single human is worth 100 times more than another. The street sweeper may do simple labors but is necessary nonetheless.

Our liberty and our standards of living are going backwards, getting worse, not better. Do you recognize this?

Absolutely. All of this falls on deaf ears. People can't revolt from their computer chairs and couches. So long as the common man is under the influence of weapons of mass distraction this will not change. Until then I will rip the system and make it work for me but this is a far cry from embracing it.

As it stands people are content in quasi-bondage. They have the opportunity to educate themselves but deny that and would rather drool to reality TV and Football. How do you save a world that doesn't want to be saved?
People still go out to the mega mart and buy goods made by slaves under terrible conditions. The only vote we have that counts, purchasing power, says that the system is fine. Companies that sell a more expensive product where their employees are paid well go bankrupt because Joe six pack would rather pay half as much for a #ty version of it made by children.

reply to post by SanguineDenial


We're pretty much in agreement then.

Things will get worse before they get better.

The debate is good to keep pointing out the truth to the matter.

Work is good, but make work is bad.

To much of our economy is driven completely by turn over of product, planned obsolescence, to keep the whole system running. A giant wasteful rat maze built to keep to large of a chunk of the wealth produced, in the pockets of the super greedy, who have managed to get themselves into positions of control.

When the giant reserves of oil in the Middle East run out, the market system will force massive change, and they are in decline as we speak. In about five years the Middle East will be like Texas. This will force massive change in the U.S. infrastructure.

I see us all driving around in small, 1,000 lb cars, compressed air electric hybrids, lots of windmills, and hemp produced bio diesel. Without the cheap oil, goods will be far cheaper to produce locally, than ship from slave wage societies. Heck, most of our tax dollars go to subsidize the exportation of our jobs by subsidizing transportation and of course the huge military. We can't protect our own borders, but we can protect Exxon's overseas operations. The greedy super rich are cutting their own throats, even though they probably know it. They are addicts.

Keep you tech skills sharp, they are going to be needed.

Originally posted by 2manyquestions
When people start talking "socialism" and "communism", they usually think of a utopia that doesn't exist, because you can't force millions or billions of people to completely accept your way of life. It's not like the Smurfs. You're always going to have people disagreeing with each other over basic and some substantial things.

In a socialist society you are not a slave to one boss, you're a slave to the entire population. You're no longer working for yourself, you're working for everybody around you, and they in turn also work for you. It's the beehive mentality. There is no individualism. People get jealous, envious, greedy and nasty. Some will want more free time, some will not want to work the jobs necessary to sustain everyone, some will want to take more than they need. Unless you rid people of these negative emotions and desires, it will all eventually fall apart. You would have to raise the population from infants and instill in them these self-sacrificing ideals. You would have to isolate them from the rest of the world, or live behind walls where the influence of outsiders doesn't infect them with certain ideas.

The concept of nobody having to work for their survival is appealing initially, but the truth is that it's physically impossible without having someone (or something) else do all the work for you. You can currently achieve this goal by either winning the lottery, or working your a$$ off to get rich while you're still young enough to enjoy the freedom that money has to offer.

The main part I took away from your posting was corruption. It is not the system (communism, capitalism, socialism etc) that is flawed, but people that are.

The same exists in our current system where corruption rules the day by big corporations and Wall Street running between the public and private sector and passing rules and regulations that benefit them, and killing off their competition, which they buy up for pennies on the dollar.

The solution is for us to work toward total independence via automation and technology, so that everyone would truly be responsible for themselves rather than be slaves to others.

Capitalism, Socialism, Communism, all require people working together to make the systems work and there will always be people looking for angles and loopholes to curb it toward their favor.

reply to post by doctornamtab


I'm feelin' ya! Great posts everyone!

Work is not the problem. People at the Top of The Great Ponzi Pyramid called Capitalism are.

Consumer-based Capitali$m is no longer sustainable Ecologically/Environmentally/Globally or Socially. CAPITALI$M in itself, is THE GREAT PONZI $CHEME. Just like Circus Ring Leader PT BARNUM said: "There's a $ucker born every minute". The handwriting is on the walls and Sheople need to wake up. Most religious people do not really consciously choose freely what they follow..they are born into it. Like Roman Catholics. Most of them are born into a Catholic Family in a Catholic Country, are Baptized, Indoctrinated, into it etc., by their Parents. By banning contraception, you ensure survival of your Cult-ure, as it feeds a steady supply of adherents and ensures the Hierarchy of Priests, & Pastors, etc. Capitalism is a cult-ure as well. We are born into it and have to slave at the bottom of the Pyramid if your not One of the Blessed One's who control most of the World's Re$ources at the top of the Pyramid Scheme. You work, create debt, and thus are enslaved to those whom you owe. Capitali$m ensures that if you are at the bottom (Poor, working class, etc.) you will ensure not only the survival of those wealthier at the top, but you are enslaved to better Their General Welfare & Being (Cult-ure). Why do you think a Pyramid is on the back of the US Dollar? It's symbolic of the $cheme. Not to say their is any other Economic $y$tem better that I know of. But for the restructuring of the current system that is occurring, The Powers that Are, are creating $lave$ at an Epic Rate as never seen before in the history of Mankind, in my humble opinion. Peace & Goodness 2 U & yours, from me & mine. seadawgg

reply to post by gentledissident


Gentledissident,

Sorry that my post had the opposite effect that I would have hoped for, instead of showing you that it can be done, in other words you can get to a point where life is truly enjoyable, you are not a slave as you say and you can pass that on to your children. You took the thread as more motivation to reject the current status.

I hate to tell you but the vast majority of the world is not going to change because you don't like it. I really do think that you and people like you should go off and live like you want. I am sure you will soon become disillusioned and be back. But you will not be happy till you try so go!

I have friends that own property in several of the unpopulated Midwest states like Wyoming. You can by a few acres there in the middle of nowhere and be completely isolated to work only for yourselves and live off the land. Good Luck!

I however will remain here, living very well all off the proceeds from working hard at a job! By the way my wife and three children do not work and live very well so basically five of us live off just my Job. Try doing that without the current system. Every member of the family will have to work from sun up to sun down.
Really it is total gibberish that you are advocating, but again go for it. Start by throwing out your computer it would not exist except for the specialist who worked to design and produce it.