Job! Jobs! Jobs! Cheering on our own slavery. Employment bubble popped. Fight against work.

reply to post by SanguineDenial


Welcome to ATS. I think you make a good point, although I think the Op also makes a good point.

Most of us like to work, we want to feel like we contribute. The videos posted by other contributors revealed what I have observed for a long time, which is that money isn't the great motivator.

Yes, people still need to work, but we could work a whole lot less. Technology has brought us to the point, where we do not need to work as much as we did in the past for us all to live decent lives.

The European solution to this is to cut the work week, and increase the vacation time, and that is what we should be doing.

I think the biggest problem is that lots of people like to be in charge, they like to tell others what to do, and dictate their lives. The bigger problem is that we have too many control freaks screwing things up for everyone else.

Originally posted by buddhasystem

Originally posted by doobydoll
I am ECSTATIC that I am no longer chasing my tail trying to keep the damn wolves from my door. I am happier now than I've been for the longest time, and anyone who has a problem with that can kiss my lily-white arse.

Of course! You are a loser who now elected to be a leech. The kids that you claim you have raised don't give a rat's poont about you, Mom, so you exploit your country's socialist trends and freeload off others. So much to congratulate yourself with, my favourite loser!

The way you use the word socialistic as a disguised insult makes it pretty easy to see where your agenda is, and the funny thing is you generate all of this ire and indignation from pouring concrete.
Like a lab rat screaming that the scientists are so good to you for letting you work in their lovely maze cos they occasionally toss you a lump of mouldy cheese.
Your job certainly ISNT being taken by a robot, cos robots have got better things to do, certainly nothing as unskilled as pouring some liquid into a hole, you might be in danger of a trained chimp taking your job though

How is taking money from a system that you have spent your whole life paying money into for just such an occasion being a leech? I can be almost certain that dooby has paid more money in over her working life then she is taking out now and in that time also managed to raise children that will go on to contribute to society, hopefully at a level above concrete monkey.

Originally posted by buddhasystem

Originally posted by doobydoll
I am ECSTATIC that I am no longer chasing my tail trying to keep the damn wolves from my door. I am happier now than I've been for the longest time, and anyone who has a problem with that can kiss my lily-white arse.

Of course! You are a loser who now elected to be a leech. The kids that you claim you have raised don't give a rat's poont about you, Mom, so you exploit your country's socialist trends and freeload off others. So much to congratulate yourself with, my favourite loser!

WHO comes on an internet forum throwing insults at another when you have NO IDEA their situation. Wow mature arent we?

Just because someone is on assistance doesn't mean they are a leech.


I never say this but I hope you lose everything so you will change your tune and tone! Put yourself in anothers shoes, I know it might be hard since you seem to lack and kind of empathy but just try.


My mom was on HUD assistance and food stamps while I was growing up and if it wasnt for that I'd have lived on the streets or in foster care. My mom raised THREE kids on her own and put herself thru night classes when she could and if it wasnt for assistance programs she wouldnt have done it....

Think before you speak!


Dooby you are awesome!

reply to post by doobydoll


Not being from the UK. It would be hard for me to tell what to and not to. It was just a thought. In the US I could find an old beater for a few thousand. I do feel you pain. My wife and I are in a holding pattern now. We may or may not be on the verge of losing our home. Its in Gods hands now.

Don' t take it too hard from others here. Far to long have there been people not willing to work for a living or working and not paying into a system that they have access to...(ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS)..you wouldn't understand unless you lived in Texas. But you said you have paid into a system then YES you should be able to access those benefits. Its sounds like you live within your means based on what you receive monthly.

The governments of this world have forgotten their place. Socialism and Marxism do not work it is being applied here and look at what is happening?! I am not even sure Capitalism will work anymore as long as greed rules the day.

Job! Jobs! Jobs! Cheering on our own slavery. Employment bubble popped. Fight against work.,

That is the topic of discussion in this thread.

Please conduct yourselves civilly and with decorum by sticking to the topic and refraining from personal attacks and off-topic replies.

It's not hard.

Originally posted by ThirdEyeofHorus
Unpleasant things also have to be done to make things happen. Someone has to put the trash out. Who will do that if everyone is all happy with their more creative jobs?

More people would work the "unpleasant" jobs, so the work week would be very short. Myself, I'd love a chance to drive around town operating the robotic arm trash truck. The cute girl doing that in my neighborhood seems to have a blast with it.

Originally posted by SanguineDenial
almost all organized labor unions will teach you for no cost other than your commitment through apprenticeship

It's recently occurred to me that an internship, mentor-ship, or apprenticeship would be perfect for me to learn a meaningful trade, unlike the "useless" jobs the OP refers to. My day and night is consumed with a useless unneeded job. In the free time I have available, I have tried to find a start to this process. Any suggestion would be appreciated. I can't just go make friends with a tradesman in Oklahoma. I am not a "good ole boy".

Originally posted by jimnuggits
What IF we just made money obsolete tomorrow?

That question is really a fascinating look into the human psyche.

I often wonder what would happen if those heavily enforced IOU's were declare null and void. Sometimes I think we would then be a global community, but then I realize too many people are filled with fear and loathing for that to happen.

reply to post by gentledissident


What skill do you wish to learn? In Oklahoma City there is an electrician apprenticeship program with IEC-OKC that takes applications monthly.
iec-okc.org...
If you apply, good luck!

You know, I some what agree with the OP and since I was a very young schlep, I always wondered why you had to work meaningless jobs to procure a piece of paper to go buy a loaf of bread. Why can't human beings just help each other live together in harmony? I need bread, but I have milk. You have bread but need milk. Barter - no one gains, no one loses, and we both live in harmony. Unfortunately, for whatever reason, human beings have this thing called a conscience, and just like the late great Bill Cooper said, if you want to find out where evil exists, it exists in the minds of human beings. There in lies the fantasy that mankind will ever live in harmony with nature and each other and productivity will be used only to help one and another survive. If one man can gain the advantage over another, especially with the advent of technology, he will. # jobs are simply a reality now because some greedy evil bastards will make more money.

It sucks, I hate it because I'm not like that, but it is what it is. I'm working, staying off the system as much as possible, in the hopes I can retire and go fishing every freaking day till I die.

reply to post by SanguineDenial


Hey very good thoughts here. I'm glad you are one of the few with a well paying, meaningful job that's worth the debt and interest your education is costing you. My system doesnt want to take that from you. We're not all so lucky though. Some of us can't afford to buy all the wonderful toys you speak of even though we ARE working, sometimes two, three jobs. Your situation is great. The system has worked for you and I'm very happy for that. But there are still MILLIONS of people who are simply working so they can pay bills, rent and buy food for their kids. Its a dire situation and we shouldnt think that because you're doing fine that everyone just needs to be like you. Some people dont have access to education like you have. Some people run into discrimination for a million reasons (even your hairstyle can ruin a potential job opportunity. How silly is that). So your situation is unique and you should be very thankful. For the rest of us however, this economic model has not lived up to its promises.

Please reconsider your statement about my retardation. You have a great, high paying job. Good for you. The rest of us are working simply to get by. Paycheck to paycheck, sometimes meal to meal. Working simply to repay the debts of the body is a REALITY for us. Every day we wake up hungry. Everyday we must work to repay that hunger with money. So how is hunger not a debt?

Also, we're not like "every damn animal under the sun." We're human beings, capable of manipulating our environment to suit our needs. Can your cat do that? No. Humans are different than animals, anyone can see that. So our survivial shouldnt be as dire as animals. Yet it is. We still work and eat like animals but its distilled THROUGH an economic system. But its still day to day, work to eat, just like animals. We deserve more. Because we're capable of more. We have an outdated economic system that doesnt meet our needs anymore (except for the lucky few like you). We need a system that works for all of us, not just the success stories. Every system works if you only listen to the success stories.

And its a false choice to say that I can either kill myself, live as a hobo or submit. How is that a choice? Yet this is the choice we are faced with every day. Nearly all of us just submit. And nearly all of us are sick of it. So, good for you and your job, but think about someone else, someone outside of your economic class, the people you might look past as you walk down the street. The system is NOT working for them the way it works for you. The easy answer is to blame them. But the right answer is to find a new way to get goods and services to the people. Thats what I'm trying to do.

Its possible today, moreso than ever before, to work less and get more. But we dont. Because the economy's needs are put before our human needs. Thats a backwards, irrational way to arrange society. So lets make a society that works for EVERYONE, not just the success stories.

So thanks for the thoughts. You thought about the OP more than most.

Originally posted by Xaberz
iec-okc.org...

All applicants must:... experience in the electrical trade ...Your application will not be processed if you have not provided the documents listed above.

Well, that leaves me out.

Really, I'd like to be a helper who is given more tasks as each is learned. "Skilled labor" seems like it would be really easy to pick up through observation. I don't have the time nor money for trade school.

I'd also like a 9-5 with weekends off so I can see my family again.

As much as I dislike conspiracies, utopia seems to be a prime candidate for one. People fear, hate, or misunderstand the idea. If it were secretly introduced in increments with each stage making us happier than the last, we would only understand how we became happy in retrospect. I'm sure the eventual "knowledge" of the conspiracy would cause the process to be reversed in defiance. We would be outraged we were fooled to go along a path to happiness and revert back to the old ways which were also originally implemented through clandestine operations.

Originally posted by smarterthanyou
reply to post by doctornamtab

 

Well our trade agreements have shipped all the jobs that WERE here, over to developing nations. So you see, we haven't actually lost a need for those jobs, we have just LOST THOSE JOBS. There's a big difference. I can see you are not an economist, by any stretch of the imagination. lulz

edit: however i agree with you that technology does support us moving forward, as a people and technologically, and that technologies most likely do exist, locked away in the vaults of the military bases and their contractors like lockheed, and the USPTO has been terrible at actually being a "free place for inventors to patent their ideas" because they often get stolen for national security if they would actually have any "world-changing" effect with the ability to support the masses, energy devices for example that would destroy big oil. But as far as the need for jobs, we have systematically shipped all of our jobs out of this country, and if you don't acknowledge that you just dont understand politics and history. I will give you a chance to respond. I will also give specific examples of trade agreements and laws passed that have hurt us economically should you ask me to. They are pretty easy to find on your own.

edit on 9/14/2011 by smarterthanyou because: (no reason given)

edit on 9/14/2011 by smarterthanyou because: typoz up the wazoo, its dark in here

Actually I will just refer all of you to here.
www.ronpaul.com...
This man gets it. Free trade hasn't really been free for a while now.

edit on 9/14/2011 by smarterthanyou because: (no reason given)

Alright, yes, jobs have been given to people overseas. I can see youre no economist either because an economist knows this is inevitable in capitalism, especially a capitalism gone global. Jobs go to the lowest bidder. Increasingly though, the lowest bidder is a robot. So who do we blame for all those job losses? Job losses that are simply the natural progression of technology taking the work out of life. The problem is not the loss of jobs, but that we tie our basic life necessities, like food and water, to these jobs. So when jobs do go overseas or are lost to technology, both are inevitable, what do we do? The OP is my solution. A GLOBAL solution.

Instead of thinking just about American jobs, I try to think globally because the economy is now a global problem. If Greece defaults that screws us all, right? So to worry just about American jobs is short sighted and doesnt solve the problem of working for food itself. Yes, jobs have gone overseas, but thats such a small fraction of the problem that its basically mute. The real problem is that we need those jobs to access food and shelter.

Originally posted by gentledissident

Originally posted by Xaberz
iec-okc.org...

All applicants must:... experience in the electrical trade ...Your application will not be processed if you have not provided the documents listed above.

Well, that leaves me out.

Really, I'd like to be a helper who is given more tasks as each is learned. "Skilled labor" seems like it would be really easy to pick up through observation. I don't have the time nor money for trade school.

I'd also like a 9-5 with weekends off so I can see my family again.

Sorry to say, but don't be so defeatest. If this is what you want to do, then find out where you can get experience. That website has a phone number you can call to ask for information. It's very possible to save the money for school, find the time, and apply yourself. My dad went to technical school full time and worked full time, and he became a carpenter. It's hard but if you put your mind to it you can do it.

If you don't want to spend the money for trade school then read books about it. For my dad's birthday I bought him a book on appliance repair, and now he can fix dishwashers and washing machines at people's houses for extra income.

Originally posted by Xaberz
Sorry to say, but don't be so defeatest. If this is what you want to do, then find out where you can get experience.

I'm asking questions so I can find a way. I think that's putting up an effort. I didn't think to call the place you mentioned. I work the phones all day. I'm used to saying that I cannot comment on something that is not related to my specific department and getting the people off the phone as quickly as possible so I can take another call

Originally posted by Xaberz If you don't want to spend the money for trade school then read books about it. For my dad's birthday I bought him a book on appliance repair, and now he can fix dishwashers and washing machines at people's houses for extra income.

That sounds great. I find myself able to do anything that concerns math, mechanics, and tool operation. I was under the impression I needed a license if I weren't an apprentice.

Originally posted by 0zzymand0s
reply to post by 2manyquestions

 

Sadly, you couldn't be more wrong. Thanks to innovations in computational power and 3D printing, more then half of the remaining jobs will be gone in 10-12 years. You can barely see it -- like the impact of the Internet in 1989 -- but it is on the horizon. The final breakthrough will come when the raw materials to build just about anything can be purchased as cheaply as bandwidth, and that is just around the corner, figuratively speaking. Salespeople? Storefronts? Retail? Gone (or reduced to a fraction when only certain specialty items are manufactured and sold under the old paradigm). And construction? Fergitaboutit. Robots and nano-swarms will do that cheaper as well.

Beyond that is "the big crunch:", when rudimentary AI removes the need for managers, project managers, engineers, research scientists, doctors, lawyers, and most other professions. That moment is probably 20-25 years away, and at that point, there will be more people on the planet then every moment in history, combined, but only enough "work" for about 0001% of them.

Don't look down.

edit on 14-9-2011 by 0zzymand0s because: (no reason given)

Respectfully I will have to disagree with you on that. If there are no jobs, population growth will slow to a crawl. People will either opt out of having children in order to survive, or the children that will come into this world as an "accident" will either not live long enough to make an impact, or adapt to the current situation. Old jobs that exist now may not exist in the future, but new jobs may come along as a result. Many of the jobs that exist today did not exist 20 years ago. Raw materials may become scarce, and may not be as cheap as predicted. Price may depend not only on scarcity, but also on politics and relationships with countries which harbor the needed resources. Wars or disease could also come along and thin out the population. There are so many variables, that there is no way to know what the future holds.

Originally posted by jimnuggits
What IF we just made money obsolete tomorrow?

That question is really a fascinating look into the human psyche.