Job! Jobs! Jobs! Cheering on our own slavery. Employment bubble popped. Fight against work.

Originally posted by jaomba I worked hard, took risk, failed and picked myself back up again and eventually achieved a decent amount of success.

Originally posted by jaombaThe people that work for me simple do not deserve to be paid as much as me, they either did not earn as much education, did not constantly push the limit with what they had, did not take the right risk, etc.

Originally posted by jaomba Naturally the division of labor looks like a pyramid, more highly skilled positions on top with less people doing them and less work for them, lower skilled positions on the bottom with more people doing them and more work to be done.

This is exactly what the rest of us are saying is the wrong way to enjoy life.

Originally posted by jaomba The anger and or frustration expressed on this thread seems to be from those at the bottom of the pyramid, naturally there are more of those people so you hear a great deal of people chiming in and agreeing. Well there are less of me, part way up the pyramid, and you do not hear as many of those like me chiming in because there are fewer of me.

We don't want your life. I don't want anything to do with people who think like you.

Originally posted by jaomba But I am here to tell you, it can be done by working a job and it can be done by taking risk and moving forward. Stop whining about it, pick yourself up and get a positive attitude and do it.

You have encouraged me more than anyone to go off grid and get as far away from your world as possible

There is much talk here about new systems, new ways and how people are being held down by an oppressive system. To those that think they are enslaved and oppressed, I think that you have never known what it is to be without self determination. Right now in this imperfect system there is absolutely nothing is holding you in bondage other than your own desire. You are free to go join a commune or start your own. The only thing keeping you in a system you claim so loudly to hate is your addiction to its products. Products like processed food, clean water, electricity, entertainment and internet. This is a great time to watch what people say and watch what they actually do. Every last one of you here has access to the internet, meaning you have access to more knowledge than any other humans in known history. You don't even have to use a Dewey decimal system, you have google.

You have the tools at your fingertips to create a better world but instead you bitch about it for a few minutes on a forum before going back to your consumerist ways. I bet if you lived on necessities rather than a diet of desirables that near everyone here could collect enough assets from this broken system to trade for the tools and machinery to be independent of it. Nearly everyone here should have the right to own land so there is absolutely nothing forcing you to stay in your self perceived slavery. Live on rice and beans for a while, stop buying fashion accessories and you will be free in no time. I'm willing to bet that most of you aren't willing to make that sacrifice as you will be lost without consumer goods. Hopefully some of you may prove me wrong.

Originally posted by SanguineDenial
You have the tools at your fingertips to create a better world but instead you bitch about it for a few minutes on a forum before going back to your consumerist ways. I bet if you lived on necessities rather than a diet of desirables that near everyone here could collect enough assets from this broken system to trade for the tools and machinery to be independent of it. Nearly everyone here should have the right to own land so there is absolutely nothing forcing you to stay in your self perceived slavery. Live on rice and beans for a while, stop buying fashion accessories and you will be free in no time.

Yes, we've been saying that if we cannot mold the economy to meet our vision, we will leave. We've also been advocating dropping out and leaving the needless stuff behind. We're hoping to make some progress through our purchasing decisions. These sentiments are throughout this thread already.

reply to post by doctornamtab


Nothing stops you from living off the grid. Find your own food, build your own shelter.

This thread is basically a crying fest for those that don't want to work, and expect others to carry you.

I work hard, thus I, and I alone should reap the benefits.

This socialist utopian idea is great, until you end up with no one wanting to work anymore, and expecting others to provide for them.


No thanks.

reply to post by gentledissident

It's pointless to try to explain to the ones that are vocal against this and do not want to hear anything, leave these people as they are because they will not understand you, they are deep asleep. In stead try to tell others that might listen.

These people are dependent on the social class they spin around, getting them out is hard near impossible, they are highly robotic rooted deep down in the values they have been indoctrinated with, by the people that rule the social class. If it's okay viewed by society and the rules and concepts of the society then they are also okay with it, sadly I must say for people rooted into this , it is the behavior of zombies that feed of the grid of the system. If the system will collapse so do the people that have dependence on it. It's how you control people, give candy then take it away, then put conditions on the people. Since zombies like candies they will do anything for it. I don't see a very bright future for humanity as in a clean bright one.

It's the problem, people are turning into consuming zombies. Who knows maybe one day people will wake up from this mess and really see what is happening here. I hope to god that day comes soon.

Some of you might find this of interest:

Off Grid Solar House


youtu.be...

Make the system work for you. I don't think that changing the current one will be successful, too many are happy in their world of apathy. Building your own might just happen though but it will be a lot of *work* .

If you do create a system with no jobs, how do you decide who does the labor that needs doing? Clearly some are more skilled than others so does being slow and dumb equal a free pass? What if you are fat, does being to big to do work mean that you can stay home and eat? What if I want to have 15 children but I'm not very good at anything and don't want to be, does the rest of the community have to work harder to feed my family? Maybe I want to smoke pot and play games all day rather than learning to farm or weld, does that mean somebody else has to get sunburned and breathe steel fumes?

Ideals quickly become nightmares when humans are involved. I wish each of the best in realizing your dreams, just don't forget that life can be a real bitch.

reply to post by SanguineDenial

The only thing keeping you in a system you claim so loudly to hate is your addiction to its products.

Sorry, but the system of slavery that is being put into place is not the system that provides us with our modern lifestyles. That they have convinced people like you that you must be a wage slave, always in debt to the corporate bankers, and so many like you, is a sad indicator of how we are letting our liberties and standards of living slip away.

You shouldn't have to go off the grid to be free.

What we need to do is strip the ICs of their power and influence over our government and thereby our l lives. We need to shut down the use of government to support International Corporations, with worker paid taxes and government debt which the ICs intend to stick on the backs of the U.S. workers.

Originally posted by poet1b
reply to post by SanguineDenial

 

The only thing keeping you in a system you claim so loudly to hate is your addiction to its products.

Sorry, but the system of slavery that is being put into place is not the system that provides us with our modern lifestyles. That they have convinced people like you that you must be a wage slave, always in debt to the corporate bankers, and so many like you, is a sad indicator of how we are letting our liberties and standards of living slip away.

You shouldn't have to go off the grid to be free.

What we need to do is strip the ICs of their power and influence over our government and thereby our l lives. We need to shut down the use of government to support International Corporations, with worker paid taxes and government debt which the ICs intend to stick on the backs of the U.S. workers.

Or just get out of personal debt, and amass your own wealth.

WE will continue on this path until people stop blaming others for the failures, misfortunes and decisions.

Originally posted by macman
Or just get out of personal debt

I am out of debt.

Originally posted by macman
amass your own wealth.

That is not so easy. I cannot hide my contempt for The Man, and he is my employer and mentor. I could acquire wealth by promoting products and services no one needs, but that would perpetuate what I'm trying to get away from.

Originally posted by macman stop blaming others for the failures, misfortunes and decisions.

Many failures and misfortunes can be rightfully blamed on others. Even decisions can be from bad influence or internal conflict. We are taught to want one thing, while our animal mind wants something else. This unhealthy dichotomy will surely lead to some bad decisions.

reply to post by poet1b

Who said I was in debt? You have me mistaken for somebody else. I've been into topics like this since I was a teenager, others have been into this since the 1960s, remember that whole hippie movement? I am so far beyond being hot blooded over this, all it did was turn my hair grey and it didn't change anything else. Sure our system of currency is FUBAR, but nobody is listening. If you try to educate the common man, they glaze over because thinking is uncomfortable. You can't save others, you can only save yourself. This is the same as liberty is taken, you can't give liberty. So in a state where the masses are so completely oblivious to the problems at hand what other choices are there? You can stay in the messed up system and make it work for you or you can drop out. Thankfully we aren't to the point of being like East Berlin by a long shot. I imagine much of this is just typical twenty-somethings angst upset that their lives aren't as plentiful as when they lived off their parents.

The myth that you can automate away all our labor is delusional as well. I personally work with automation systems. A robot can reduce the labor that is necessary but there is still maintenance issues and there are many things that a human can do better. I myself wouldn't want to live in a world where humans had no skilled labor. That would be humanity in decline IMHO. What do we all do with our lives if we don't create and build even just a little? # off all day? I'd rather be building rockets to go into space myself and I don't think that breaking a sweat to get there is such a terrible burden. I tried doing nothing for a few years as I couldn't get a job even if I wanted too. Sure I had food and shelter but it's not all its cracked up to be. I am a craftsman, I build power plants and robotics, my skills help make the world better for everyone. I don't think that stopping that will benefit anyone.

There are already examples of this society without jobs. There are vast tracts of urban decay where entire subcultures have lived without working for generations. There are by far the most delinquent and ignorant members of our society. These are the people that will kill you for driving down the wrong street and gang rape your sister. Life without purpose isn't utopia.

If everyone here that works a job that they feel is pointless and no longer had to worry about food or shelter, what would you do with your lives? What would you do for humanity? As most of us only work 40 hours a week, why aren't you doing these things right now?

Originally posted by SanguineDenial
Off Grid Solar House

Check out the 5 min mark. This guy gets death threats all the time. This is what we are up against.

Originally posted by gentledissident

Originally posted by SanguineDenial
Off Grid Solar House

Check out the 5 min mark. This guy gets death threats all the time. This is what we are up against.

I work with voltages that can kill me all the time. I don't curl up in the fetal position and give up because of my mortality. Everything dies, not everything truly lives. The world is not a padded cell, if never will be. I know men that had to worry about getting eaten by lions just to get water when they were young. That didn't stop them from getting # done.

reply to post by gentledissident

Oh stop it.
Blaming others only brings on a temporary pity party and some others to pat you on the butt with best wishes.

Here is the difference, I don't worry about what others do, purchase or don't purchase. If selling crap will help myself and my family be better off, then so be it. As I am not my brother's keeper.
If he wants crap, I have it for sale. It is his decision to buy it or not buy it.

Originally posted by SanguineDenial
I know men that had to worry about getting eaten by lions

I'm not saying I'm giving up. I just want you to know who you run with.

Originally posted by macman
reply to post by gentledissident

 

Oh stop it.
Blaming others only brings on a temporary pity party and some others to pat you on the butt with best wishes.

I didn't know I was entitled to one of those parties. Blame is placed to show where the fault lies. One can then determine the best solution.

Originally posted by macman

Originally posted by poet1b
reply to post by SanguineDenial

 

The only thing keeping you in a system you claim so loudly to hate is your addiction to its products.

Sorry, but the system of slavery that is being put into place is not the system that provides us with our modern lifestyles. That they have convinced people like you that you must be a wage slave, always in debt to the corporate bankers, and so many like you, is a sad indicator of how we are letting our liberties and standards of living slip away.

You shouldn't have to go off the grid to be free.

What we need to do is strip the ICs of their power and influence over our government and thereby our l lives. We need to shut down the use of government to support International Corporations, with worker paid taxes and government debt which the ICs intend to stick on the backs of the U.S. workers.

Or just get out of personal debt, and amass your own wealth.

WE will continue on this path until people stop blaming others for the failures, misfortunes and decisions.

Yet we will ever get anywhere if fraudulent dynamics built into the system aren't removed.

The entities that perpetuate this depend on "until people stop blaming others for the failures, misfortunes and decisions" because it protects their fraud from any meaningful examination, investigation or termination.

I do not disagree with your sentiment, I disagree with how it is leveraged in the halls of power.

Originally posted by gentledissident

Originally posted by macman
reply to post by gentledissident

 

Oh stop it.
Blaming others only brings on a temporary pity party and some others to pat you on the butt with best wishes.

I didn't know I was entitled to one of those parties. Blame is placed to show where the fault lies. One can then determine the best solution.

Sorry, but blame is a weak method of coping. And it takes away time from correcting the issue, instead of looking to find someone else to be mad at.

Originally posted by gentledissident

Originally posted by SanguineDenial
I know men that had to worry about getting eaten by lions

I'm not saying I'm giving up. I just want you to know who you run with.

That particular man would be an African who emigrated to the United States and our terrible system of wage slavery. Its so bad here that he decided to have children and better himself with education.

Originally posted by Janky Red

Originally posted by macman

Originally posted by poet1b
reply to post by SanguineDenial

 

The only thing keeping you in a system you claim so loudly to hate is your addiction to its products.

Sorry, but the system of slavery that is being put into place is not the system that provides us with our modern lifestyles. That they have convinced people like you that you must be a wage slave, always in debt to the corporate bankers, and so many like you, is a sad indicator of how we are letting our liberties and standards of living slip away.

You shouldn't have to go off the grid to be free.

What we need to do is strip the ICs of their power and influence over our government and thereby our l lives. We need to shut down the use of government to support International Corporations, with worker paid taxes and government debt which the ICs intend to stick on the backs of the U.S. workers.

Or just get out of personal debt, and amass your own wealth.

WE will continue on this path until people stop blaming others for the failures, misfortunes and decisions.

Yet we will ever get anywhere if fraudulent dynamics built into the system aren't removed.

The entities that perpetuate this depend on "until people stop blaming others for the failures, misfortunes and decisions" because it protects their fraud from any meaningful examination, investigation or termination.

I do not disagree with your sentiment, I disagree with how it is leveraged in the halls of power.

edit on 17-9-2011 by Janky Red because: (no reason given)

And therein lies the difference, I worry about me and mine. You worry about others.
I don't really care if you succeeded or not. It is great when others do, and I wish you all the best. But, I don't live my life pondering if my neighbor is successful.

Originally posted by macman
Sorry, but blame is a weak method of coping. And it takes away time from correcting the issue, instead of looking to find someone else to be mad at.

We are certainly required to determine fault when it comes to a problem. It's a major part of fixing the problem.

Sometimes blame can be misplaced. Did you play this blame game?