We, ATS Members, Must Focus On Politics

Originally posted by Spectre0o0
what a bunch of kiss asses. as soon as SO posts something you all rush to post like he's your wicked father.

[edit on 2-3-2010 by gimme_some_truth]

Originally posted by Spectre0o0
what a bunch of kiss asses. as soon as SO posts something you all rush to post like he's your wicked father.
its a shame you can't mow his lawn and do his dishes.
i have posted a lot of political stuff on here ,and if you don't exactly please the mods,you get punished. it's like they're a bunch of children.
we shopuld be able to censor the mods, thats who need it.
maybe if some of the mods grew up,it would be a real place to express yourself.
blind authority and censorsghip live here. and SO is a prime example.

Spectre many others have politely disagreed with SO, others have disagreed like your self. Do you really have to resort to name calling and insuniations to disagree? I think not, but as I pointed out to SO, his suggestion regarding civil discourse for political discussion may not work on the power of suggestion alone.
As for people's beefs with mods, I suggest you and others like you start a new thread to call this out. I think I can speak for others where all they want to see on this thread is civil dialogue on whether there can be polite debate on politics and not people's beefs with mods.

Originally posted by dgtempe
I beleive the proper terminology is SYCOPHANTS.

Have you ever agreed with something posted by a staff member? If so (and I'm certain it's happened), were YOU a sycophant then? What an insult it is to imply that the majority of people on ATS can't think for themselves and wouldn't speak their own minds if they could. How insulting it is to say that everyone who agrees with a good idea is doing so to get on the good side of the staff. I mean, it's really insulting.

Discussion of politics is better served by action in same.

ATS lacks feet.

Politicians and their views are varied and mixed with other politicians.

The discussion of politics will likely have no "deny ignorance" outcome unless we have our own trusted reporters.

I suggest you start a news staff of people with integrity, and then a third political party to eliminate one of the existing parties.

reply to post by dgtempe


Oppressive? Since when?

No one is "ordering" you to do anything, DG. All the OP is saying is look past the rhetoric from each "side", and look at the actual facts of what ever issue it is we're looking at.

Oppressive? Nothing could be further from the truth.

Originally posted by Diplomat

Originally posted by SkepticOverlord

Expose the corruption inherent in both "sides" of the artificial two-party system.

Look past the political rhetoric and highly-paid media firebrands to examine the essence of the real issues.

Hold all politicians accountable for their words, their actions, and their financial influences.

This is the most important part right here, I hope people really understand this. Lately the members of ATS have disappointed me with all of the 2-party paradigm distractions, all of the Republicans vs. Democrats bickering. ATS used to be a place where the members understood that what is going on is much deeper than the false 2-party system.

[edit on 2-3-2010 by Diplomat]

"false two-party system"

In reality there are fundamental differences in the belief structures between conservatives and liberals. The politicians that float to the top of both groups seem similar because to win and govern, they must try to do so from the center in this country. Any far right, or far left agenda will surely fail, as has been shown over and over again. So, the two party system in the U.S. is not false.

Lately, we've seen a lot of members posting about the "false two-party system". I submit that this phrase and its underlying concept are nothing more than the latest attempt at "Political Correctness", which is feel-good speech to try and cover up something perceived to be nasty or unpleasant. Pro and con discussion has existed in this country since the founding.

Does anyone truly believe that the answer to political passion is to simply pretend it doesn't exist. I believe they also call this approach the "ostrich principle" after the way they bury their heads in the sand in order to pretend that there is no danger.

The easy way out is to run, hide and pretend there is no issue. The more difficult, but correct approach is to learn to deal with adversity head-on, but in a mature and fair manner. Make your points. Respect the responses you get. Give up and get out of a thread if you find yourself getting angry, and/or you realize you have nothing (else) to add.

It seems we are a nation of debaters. ATS has provided a forum for us to do so via the web. If people didn't like it, they wouldn't be here. People are consciously selecting the threads and choosing to post. It takes everyone - including ATS staff - to keep the debates civil and keep them cool in a way that is fair to all.

Let's try that instead of trying to pretend that there's no such thing as differing opinions on how this country should be governed - or anything else for that matter.

[edit on 3/2/2010 by centurion1211]

Originally posted by dgtempe
Must focus on Politics?

Its getting a little oppressive here. Sorry.

Wait, you MUST focus on politics, you have no choice or you will be reprimanded somehow!
Is that what you read from this thread?

I'm pretty sure that "must" means it's important.
Not really rocket science.

Originally posted by Spectre0o0
what a bunch of kiss asses. as soon as SO posts something you all rush to post like he's your wicked father.

Uhhhh... Im a fairly active member here and I enjoy knowing updates regarding the site which I spend alot of time reading/posting on.
Is the name calling really necessary?

Originally posted by Spectre0o0
maybe if some of the mods grew up,it would be a real place to express yourself.
blind authority and censorsghip live here. and SO is a prime example.

As an extremely active member if what you are saying is true wouldn't I feel the same way, perhaps even more than you?

ATS is the top conspiracy site on the net, do you really think it could still hold that position if what you are saying is true?

If ATS was a real place to express yourself within your realm of name-calling then no, it wouldn't at all be a nice place.

Perhaps youtube comments would suit you better if that's what you are looking for.



On another note, can someone explain to me what the opposition to this or the previous (i'm pissed") is all about?

You know I just just made a thread
www.abovetopsecret.com...
and I think that thread is very pertinant to both of SO's threads.

I guess I just don't understand the opposition with wanting a site with mature discussions and focusing on the root causes of today's major issues.

Perhaps someone on the opposition side can enlighten me.

There is barely a one party system going on. I find myself agreeing more with those who believe this than those who still blindly believe in a two party system. All my posts reflect my feelings.

AND YES- for years, and i mean years, you can see the trend of those who jump on here, and may i add, they are also culprits of whatever is being brought to light, and immediatly they star flag and start rooting for the cause, YET they are just as guilty as everyone else.

The truth hurts.

reply to post by Benevolent Heretic


Now you are using this thread for a drama event to end all drama events.

reply to post by centurion1211


Do you KNOW what people mean by "false left-right paradigm"?

We think that the current system in place, for however long, is an illusion. I don't put much stock in what Jesse Ventura usually says but he said one thing I can not deny: "American Politics is like professional wrestling. You have faces and heels fighting each other in the ring, and when it's all done they count how much money they made together, pat each other on the back and grab a drink together."

The two party system is not even two parties. From a rhetoric point of view, yes, republicans and conservatives, liberals and democrats, moderates and progressives, who ever uses these labels to define their political approach do have fundamental differences. But these differences are skin deep. They say one thing and often times do the opposite, and possibly just from coincidence the opposites of any of these faces are the same.

If you look back in political history in America, you can find a solid trend of similarities amongst politicians all pushing for the same things. This trend can not be ignored and proves the simple little fact that the American people are deluded into thinking they have a choice and who they choose actually represents them.

The system is broken, for whatever reason. Perhaps it's simple greed, or it could be some deeper, much larger conspiracy, but it's happening. It's arguable that within the design of the current system, you can not even effectively fix it anymore. You can change the color from red to blue and back to red but that doesn't fix anything.

How far this rabbit hole goes I do not know but regardless of how far one may be in there venture down this hole, we all know that something is amiss and regardless of what it is, the first step for REAL improvement, by REAL people, FOR THE PEOPLE OF THIS COUNTRY, can not be done in the current system anymore. I'm not advocating armed revolution mind you but I'm not denouncing it either, merely stating the simple fact that any action we take will mean nothing. There are loopholes that exist that The Powers That Be can manipulate and control in order for us to not gain an advantage.

Simply voting in new politicians or a new party does nothing. People are greedy. Especially anyone in politics as politics is a game of power, which follows under greed. If the tea party wasn't evident of this, I don't know what is.

I don't have any real solutions or even any thought up ones, but these are the problems and they can't be denied. You can rationalize around them if you want but I suggest not to if you actually want to get anything useful done.

The People's sovereignty is gone. Our government is no longer for the people. We need to trade in the old model for a new one because our current machine has so many missing parts, jiggyrigged duct taped and paper clipped fixes and all of the workers of the machine only feel like changing its color once and a while.

Originally posted by SpectreDC
reply to post by centurion1211

 

Do you KNOW what people mean by "false left-right paradigm"?

If you read my post, you'd know the answer is "YES".

We think that the current system in place, for however long, is an illusion. I don't put much stock in what Jesse Ventura usually says but he said one thing I can not deny: "American Politics is like professional wrestling. You have faces and heels fighting each other in the ring, and when it's all done they count how much money they made together, pat each other on the back and grab a drink together."

As I stated, the "illusion" comes from politicians not staying true to their beliefs and trying to pretend they are something else.

The two party system is not even two parties. From a rhetoric point of view, yes, republicans and conservatives, liberals and democrats, moderates and progressives, who ever uses these labels to define their political approach do have fundamental differences. But these differences are skin deep. They say one thing and often times do the opposite, and possibly just from coincidence the opposites of any of these faces are the same.

But, again as I've stated, the underlying belief structures are almost polar opposites.

If you look back in political history in America, you can find a solid trend of similarities amongst politicians all pushing for the same things. This trend can not be ignored and proves the simple little fact that the American people are deluded into thinking they have a choice and who they choose actually represents them.

Again, because politicians think they have to sacrifice their beliefs to tyry and pretend they are all centrists.

The system is broken, for whatever reason. Perhaps it's simple greed, or it could be some deeper, much larger conspiracy, but it's happening. It's arguable that within the design of the current system, you can not even effectively fix it anymore. You can change the color from red to blue and back to red but that doesn't fix anything.

Easy to say ... So, if it is broken, what's your solution? A one party dictatorship? The fractured mess we see in all the multi-party countries where governments fall on a whim?

How far this rabbit hole goes I do not know but regardless of how far one may be in there venture down this hole, we all know that something is amiss and regardless of what it is, the first step for REAL improvement, by REAL people, FOR THE PEOPLE OF THIS COUNTRY, can not be done in the current system anymore. I'm not advocating armed revolution mind you but I'm not denouncing it either, merely stating the simple fact that any action we take will mean nothing. There are loopholes that exist that The Powers That Be can manipulate and control in order for us to not gain an advantage.

Simply voting in new politicians or a new party does nothing. People are greedy. Especially anyone in politics as politics is a game of power, which follows under greed. If the tea party wasn't evident of this, I don't know what is.

If true, then there really is nothing to be done. I don't agree. I think we have to work with the system we've inherited.

I don't have any real solutions or even any thought up ones, but these are the problems and they can't be denied. You can rationalize around them if you want but I suggest not to if you actually want to get anything useful done.

But it seems that without offering solutions, all you are doing is rationalizing.

The People's sovereignty is gone. Our government is no longer for the people. We need to trade in the old model for a new one because our current machine has so many missing parts, jiggyrigged duct taped and paper clipped fixes and all of the workers of the machine only feel like changing its color once and a while.

So, where and when are you scheduling the next Constitutional Convention?

The biggest question in front of all Americans right now is What can I do to help my country.

reply to post by gimme_some_truth


I’m back by popular demand, and I’m going to show again how you’re a selective reader.

You said the following:

Again with that? Allow me to remind you... This has nothing to do with you.... It is much bigger than you... you are not that special... Neither are any one of us... Not by ourselves... this is about EVERYBODY... and it is a slap in the face of the ATS community for you to continually suggest that this is about you and only you. STOP IT!

Now R-E-A-D the following and stop with the blatant lies:

So after that episode, I made a really great thread detailing much of the lunacy and hypocrisy that is not only killing this board, and country, but our planet.

...knowing my thread would probably cause a problem (which however was not my intention) I sent it in first, told them I would wait 72 hours before posting it, and had other members in mind when I did it. See, I'm thinking about others, not just of myself...

things should be fair and equitable for everyone when it comes to the user experience—it isn’t—and this what myself and others are referring to.

ATS was here before I came here, and will probably be here after I leave. I don’t want the site to cater to me, if I did, I’d have EMPIRE.COM or something like that.

It has nothing to do with me and everything to do with people not stepping up to the plate. I’m talking mods, admins, and members who are unwilling to practice some form of self-restraint. That’s all I’ve ever asked for, what other members are continuing to ask for, yet we’re being preached to and pounded for speaking out.

It has nothing to do with my happiness. I’m speaking out because people are afraid to speak out or don’t know how to speak out without getting themselves booted.

I understand it’s a balancing act, but you seem to think I want people to cater to me but that is not the case.

Again, ATS shouldn’t be based on one persons viewpoint as we’re all different, from many walks of life, etc. However, where do we draw the line or where do you guys draw the line? I know where I draw the line, and I know when to practice self control, but where do the people at the top draw the line?

Eight statements that directly state or imply that I’m doing this for other members, am not doing this for myself, and practiced restraint by first contacting you guy’s before I actually made the thread...I’ve plainly said the site should not cater to me, and I don’t want it to, yet you are saying I’m saying this is about me and only me. Stop lying and shame the Devil. All of those excerpts came from the previous thread, and I don’t even need to post the ones from this thread because these will suffice.

Good because I do. Strongly.

No, you don’t disagree. What you do is breed discord, level false accusations, butcher posts and avoid the issues presented.

No, this is about eliminating the problem that is political trolls and hacks. Nothing more, nothing less. Do you understand now?

No it isn’t, and if that is the case, you guys need to take the advice given by several members and start at the top.

Yeah, they should also know how to communicate in an intelligent and civil manner. Is that really so much to ask for? Apparently for some, it is.... What a shame.

Too bad you didn’t get that memo. You probably got the “DIE EMPIRE!” memo...

OK, thanks for the discussion. Even though we seem to completely disagree with each other. Have a nice day.

Seem to completely disagree? Is that what you call it?

Now I’ll bow out. I should have went on and posted that thread but don't worry. This thread, coupled with the last one, calls for a revamp.

[edit on 2-3-2010 by EMPIRE]

politics was a mind # game they invented in ancient times just to be equaly unfair to anyone who dared to go against the "institution" of last man standing pays the bill.

even the mayans or was it the aztecs incorperated the system of not knowing anything to the normal citizen , when the citizen was captured by enemy tribes they could not tell the truth even though they tried about their origin or wealth...

equaly the same " not knowing institution " has been implemented in to the Bureaucracy of internal goverment and external , giving the citizen none or equaly unfair chance to make a major change to that whats broken.

considering that it can take up to 20 or even 40 years before a resonable solution is made/passed due to politics which during its time has cost its value 10 folded in bad entropy,

unfortunatly greed has nothing to do with politics nor
politics with what you can demand from your goverment ,

politicians debate in order to create the illution of "your" goverment , the variation you observe as "truth".

being politicly active only means you give your version of the "truth" for others to value or de value,

and has nothing to do with debating the "policy of Bureaucracy" the cog wheel behind "gets and not gets" or "do or dont´s"

I like how all you can do is offer joke responses and banter instead of an actual argument.

Originally posted by centurion1211

Originally posted by SpectreDC
reply to post by centurion1211

 

As I stated, the "illusion" comes from politicians not staying true to their beliefs and trying to pretend they are something else.

Or perhaps their rhetoric isn't anything other than rhetoric and the beliefs they speak about are just lies? Oh wait, silly me, politicians never lie. Sorry.

But, again as I've stated, the underlying belief structures are almost polar opposites.

There RHETORIC is polar opposite, what they DO, you know, the actual actions that affect millions of people, is often very much the same.

Again, because politicians think they have to sacrifice their beliefs to tyry and pretend they are all centrists.

Except that none of their decisions are even similar to a centrists.

Easy to say ... So, if it is broken, what's your solution? A one party dictatorship? The fractured mess we see in all the multi-party countries where governments fall on a whim?

If you were capable of reading comprehensibly, you would have seen I had said I didn't have solutions, I only offered the problems.

If true, then there really is nothing to be done. I don't agree. I think we have to work with the system we've inherited.

I know, we should do what the founding fathers did and vote in people who....oh wait, they didn't do that. Hmm. If THE PEOPLE are currently being controlled in a system not to their liking...what can they do...you know I'm going to go off on a limb here and say that a few of our older documents suggest solutions...I know this sounds crazy, but it's just a hunch.

But it seems that without offering solutions, all you are doing is rationalizing.

Do you know what rationalizing is?

reply to post by SkepticOverlord


Yea politics must be discussed, that is at least if it doesn't support conservtive values. Just business as uaual for left leaning nuts, if you can't win an argument shut the other side up. Mabye when the gov is in total control you could be in charge of re education. I only hope this ideaology doesn't completely destroy our nation when it finally isn't trendly.

Anyway. have fun getting aroused cheering communism, and welfare for all.

reply to post by PD2634


That's not what he's saying in the slightest. What he is saying is we need to look past the partisan rhetoric to get at the real solutions.

He is not advocating any particular political creed. Ya might want to reread the opening post...

In all the years I been in ATS, it doesn't stop to amaze me how people still can not get over the bipartisan bickering even in threads like this one that is to address the same problem.

Can ATS do a good thing and ban the darn political forum for a while so people can get the point.

When people can still do not see the problem and the disease the best next thing is remove the darn disease, so we all can heal.

reply to post by centurion1211


Star for a call for a CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION!

I believe that maybe our last hope.

Other than the States declaring sovereignty and telling the Federal Government to pay off their own damn debt with something other than our labor and labor of everyone in perputuity!

And EMPIRE, my GOD how long are you going to be on this rant?

It is getting tedious!