We, ATS Members, Must Focus On Politics

Originally posted by SkepticOverlord

Expose the corruption inherent in both "sides" of the artificial two-party system.

Look past the political rhetoric and highly-paid media firebrands to examine the essence of the real issues.

Hold all politicians accountable for their words, their actions, and their financial influences.

This is the most important part right here, I hope people really understand this. Lately the members of ATS have disappointed me with all of the 2-party paradigm distractions, all of the Republicans vs. Democrats bickering. ATS used to be a place where the members understood that what is going on is much deeper than the false 2-party system.

Unfortunately there are now a lot of "party-men" cheerleaders around here lately, and a lot of them don't seem to be too bright either the way they are so into being either a "liberal" or a "conservative" and will defend anyone who is on their "team." Get real, we are all in the same boat here, quit fighting pointlessly with each other over trivial crap, it's exactly what they want you to do.

[edit on 2-3-2010 by Diplomat]

I'm bowing out of this thread with this. Taken from the proposed thread that I never posted:

So why is this important? You can cheer when your fellow citizens are at odds, and take sides in that instance, yet how many of you are standing up against the government? I see people praising the old guy for defending himself, standing up for himself, etc. Yet the government has been pimping and milking you for decades now and what have you people done? Absolutely nothing! Wait; let me correct myself, you’ve done something. What you do is venture to ATS, S&F each other, post your lunacy, contact the mod’s when you’re forced to stand and give account of your madness and hide in your little cubicles at your 9-5 (the one you’re most likely going to lose when the country suffers from total economic collapse.) Don’t worry; you too may soon be on a bus, so watch that vid all you want and make sure you get plenty of chuckles.

There were people in each thread that stood for truth, looked reality in the face and called things for what they were. To those people, I say look to this thread as a thank you of sorts. You’ve denied ignorance, you’ve read and answered with a critical mind, and you spoke for truth. However, I must warn you that you are outnumbered. You are severely outnumbered in the quest to expose hypocrisy, deceit and idiocy, and I now encourage you to simply do one thing. Look at the handwriting on the wall, not just ATS and realize this country is done. Take this time to ponder your life, your direction and to make sure you are taken care of because most of these members, and ATS, like the government, do not have your best interest in mind. Understand that the problem is deeper than a simple division of the haves and have not’s, black vs. white, republican vs. democrat, theist vs. atheist, etc. There is a serious work to undermine you, and if you’re not careful, you will suffer in the end. Understand, and accept, the fact that this country is dead. If you don’t do this, you’ll face the inevitable or you yourself will be corrupted.

With that I leave you all to do whatever it is you people normally do...

reply to post by SkepticOverlord


Skeptic:

Read the Irony of Democracy by Dye and Zygler. Funny how when an elite regime is overthrown, only a bigger dictator can take its place.

If there is a flux of posts, to me, that is your problem as a webmaster, not mine as a web user. It is up to you to police the traffic, or someone else will.

What's the matter? Don't have either the capital nor the tech savy? If so, let ATS die a death of spam. The boards will soon be outdated and will need a revamp anyways.

In my best Homer Simpson impression:
re VAMP
re VAMP
re VAMP!!!

Originally posted by WWJFKD
How many times have you heard these words "We don't talk about politics or religion because it only causes arguments"?

This should be changed to: "We don't talk about politics or religion because it only drives away potential advertising revenue."

Actually, a big reason as to why I don't discuss politics all that much on here is due to the large number of people.

When you have such a large audience, and more importantly - a large number of speakers, then the topic becomes nothing but a soapbox convention with people preaching. 1 person says 1 thing, then another person says something etc. You can post, but the post itself dies unless there is response and an actual conversation develops between a few people.

And in comes those who use the political "talking points" or "keywords" and then people more often respond to those kinds of things. I find that people do not want to debate issues, they want to attack parties or whatever.

Chat room mentality vs actual discussion is the issue.

I love a good debate, but I'm not really up for chat room politics discussions where if you don't come out with a 20 second soundbite with teeth you end up ignored or drowned into silence by the 20 second soundbite posts that fill the 4 pages behind it.

Most people read the first post, a few responses and then the end of the thread. I know I do most times. Just don't have time to read them all most times, and in the case of politics - really don't want to waste time with a bunch of junk. I did it with this thread too, I read the start and now I'm posting - no time to read them all. Someone could have already posted this and I wouldn't know.

You have the debate thingy, but I really don't go there much. I'd love to debate politics, I wouldn't disappoint in the area either. If you were to pick topics and highlight them somehow that would be something I'd sign up for and be interested in.

But I'm not that interested in taking the time to write out a good response to a topic, only for it to be smothered around soundbites and mostly useless posts.

If you create an environment that is good for such discussion, then people will be more drawn to it. Any amount of nonsense that is pulled away is great, but there are other things to it as well. A real discussion doesn't really start in threads until you get pages into them. When the majority of people have lost interest in the thread, and at the end you end up with those more dedicated to the topic. Then you can start to get some decent conversations/debate.

The amount of people who might see such doesn't really matter to me. I'd rather go to a small site among a small audience and talk if I know I'm going to get a discussion/debate than be just another voice in the ocean with a large audience. Among the smaller crowd with the discussion I am more likely to show someone something than I am with a larger crowd and no real discussion. So I am by default more drawn to the smaller stage. If it were possible to get the same benefits on a larger stage that would be great.

Hope that makes sense. I have debated politics for years and among those who known me awhile(years before I joined ATS) expect such from me. But here I am one of the people who doesn't spend much time or focus on it. And the above is the reason why.

reply to post by SkepticOverlord


Hi sysop's bruv.

I didn't make comment on the initial thread regards the levels of emotive online behaviours in political threads.

However much i'm disposed to tear a stripe of somebody when they attempt to wind me up or utter obvious nonsense and assert such is so, etc.

I do agree with your previous thread on the issue, entirely so, threads should be intelligent and articulate to make sense, not like a bunch of delinquents in a school playground bringing a thread to unintelligible chaos and vacillitory nonsense and villifications from uncrontolled emotive discourse.

I didn't take insult at all.

But i respect President Obama and so much vile detritus gets articulated since post election and your saying enough is enough and post election emotive venting latitude is at an end, i don't go jumping in on ignorami etc, i avoid it because ya just know the outcome, in my case would lead to several pages of vacillations where i don't give up and i don't like trashing threads by taking issue with obsessive oiks.


English general election threads will no doubt increasingly emerge in the next couple of months. Likely i will start a couple myself even.

Being a global socialist and English New Labour, CLP subscribing member, i will likely get involved in such.

As such i will endeavour to keep posting parameters to manners within a conducive range of conduct and decorum with very few slips and not endlessly vacillate on points, say my point of view, in agreement or contrary, then leave it there or repeat in emphasis just once with more assertion, if people want to chase tails, i will leave them to do it themselves or among themselves, obsessives will receive no purchase towards me.

I won't be turning political threads into vacillations of obsessive detritus, for sure and i applaud your efforts to challange those on ATS who do.


I agree SysOp's, bit of fracking decorum people!

Peace.

Originally posted by schrodingers dog

Okelydokeley ... so if I have this right, as per this thread, we must rightly focus on politics, but without pissing you off, knowing that if it is mere asshackery threads will be moved to the still invisible Political Rivalry forum, mindful that there are many who wish Obama to fail and coutry be damned, and of the political game, whilst denying the culture of negativity armed with a rigid spine and thick skin.

Okayz.

Seriously, all good points ... although there's a lot going on there, a lot going on.

So when everyone is doing all that it will be safe to go back in them forumz?

We might add,

the effort to bring in more members into the political forums may really be for having ATS Politics serve as fertile ground in adding to the 'data base'...
A data base used to identify dissidents and others who voice opposition to the changing Administrations' and their current policies. 'DHS' has a language search operation designed to ferret out hostility in public forums and track the potential agitator cum terrorist.

Skepticoverlord,

Going further and further into politics is a complete waste of time.

The whole political landscape is there as a huge distraction, as I'm sure you know.

You can protest until the end of eternity, you can even vote...

But it will make no difference.

Your OWNERS will do whatever they please and you will do their bidding and their politicians will serve it to you on a silver platter.

And you will like it.

And you will be good, obedient workers.

And there will be NO change.

The only thing that will change anything in the US or any other country is...

REVOLUTION.



[edit on 2-3-2010 by Stanton Dowd]

I disagree.

Politics as well as religion and monetary economy is not a science. It is an invention. It has no relevance to real life:
- the healthy food and foof for everyone
- the energy supply to all and efficiency
- most efficient means of transportation
- housing for all...

Politics is a technique of being an efficient parasite. More attention they get more able to feed of us they are.

I have read and studied this thread and the responses by empire and others, and I gotta tell ya, I have to agree with what empire is saying. I have experienced a lot of the same things here with stuff I post. I have been reprimanded, had points taken off my account, and have had a few threads moved while other threads on the same subject remained in tact!

I have been berrated over the same things that others who seem to be in the "clique" on, and have watched while my character has been under attack for speaking my peace and standing my ground on my research while the attackers never had anything said or done to them by the forum mods!

I can see empire's point about ATS taking it to the next level and becoming a money-making machine, and I even said something to that effect a few months ago. The members here at ATS are the ones who are making this website what it is, for we are the ones carrying the news to this forum, and when ATS begins charging for it's services, where's our cut at?

I will be forthright in saying this though about paying for membership to ATS. I myself would not mind doing this, but I already know that it will fail, and fail miserably! ATS will turn into another "Info-Wars".com and start lining their pockets instead of fighting the new world order!

Alex Jones has been battling the nwo for more than 15 years online and hasn't changed a thing except for the numbers in his bank account! I am yet to see a serious effort by any website, or anyother group who even wants to take on the newo world order! I have offered, time after time many serious ways to combat those filth, and protesting is never an option!

If ATS wants to go to what I call "Pay-Per-View", then I am all for it, that is if they want to begin organizing a "serious" movement and taking back this country for all americans and keeping our constitution in tact!

I"m sorry have i missed something?
Have i slept through the transformation of the dog and pony show into something that really means something?

Why must we focus on politics all it does is keep people ensconced in a bubble of illusion and lies.
There is no left or right, there is only one policy already made in secrecy and the politicians the "policy pushers" are all cut from the same cloth wearing the same suits, all attached to the same set of strings, inevitably creating the conditions administration after administration that none of us plebs want.

This is slowly and forcibly being rammed down our throats.
Focus on the politics stop seeing that there is a real problem, that it is not being addressed, do as i say and not as i do, i can say and do whatever i like and you the people have to put up with it.

I thought the whole point of ATS was to help see through the illusions that have been created, that we all have been living through, to help see what the "Truth" as we have been programmed with is not.

Politics and involvement in it means that you aquiesce to the current situation and that you believe its okay because a government is telling you it is.
Its not okay and the sooner we all stop being involved in the dog and pony show the better.

News just in, Due to someone stealing the dog its now the horse and pony show, and the horse has been groomed so guess who's going to win the election.

We will pledge to discuss politics with decorum and consideration if you will pledge to keep ATS out of the control of the ptb and govt manipulators. I appreciate that things like Bush bashing and probably Obama bashing are not allowed, but ATS is a tremendous outlet for isolated people to express themselves. Please consider allowing banned persons a reprive.Don't let ATS'ers dismiss the forum as politically rigged.

What I don't get is why do we have political parties anyways?

I mean we should be able to pick from say at least a dozen people for President. The more people to pick from on voting day the harder it is for the lobbyist to promote just one or two candidates. Get rid of the political parties all together I say.

I will have to respectfully detract Skeptic, and here's why;

There is nothing to be gained from politics.

If politics were a sport, every politician would have been using performance enhancers... and would have lied about it i.e. lobbyists (How much fun would a MLB made of entirely Mark McGuires be?)

If these people believed in half of what they said or push for, every day you would hear about a senate or house floor brawl. Not to mention the fact that the political parties at this time are polar opposites in how they view each other (not so in reality).

What truth can be garnered from the field of politics? Not much when you consider the average politician breaks all their campaign promises. (I'm sorry that's my own opinion .... but I stand by it.)

What kind of ethics can you expect from a group of people that vote on their own pay raises? (Not to mention the fact that they are already paid more than the majority of American's.)

I think politics in its very core is a corrupt system. A pageant of sorts, that will rally people together for a time but will ultimately divide.

Politics is a game... Intelligent Debate and Public Service are virtues

[edit on 2-3-2010 by conspiracyrus]

Originally posted by projectvxn
Every time I discuss it I get called all kinds of names and a few times I've been accused of plotting bomb attacks, I've been called a murderer, I've received threatening messages.

I've heard alot of statements like this, people getting threatening V2Vs and such.

I've never experienced such things on ATS.
Only time was one guy V2Ving me saying that if I post opinions in a particular thread certain members would have regained trust into me, opinions that they shared that is.
Obviously since I didn't share those opinions I didn't post them.

That's as far as it went and I didn't think much of that to begin with.

My guess is that such people perhaps aren't on ATS anymore, or else i'm sure I would be getting such V2Vs by now. Or maybe the staff did a good job at letting everyone know their zero-tolerance of death threats and such on ATS.

At the end of the day i'd say that a very large majority, by a landslide, would not even consider sending such messages.

I wouldn't worry about it at this point today.

reply to post by Subjective Truth


SO is in no way saying no political debate. What he is saying is to have any sort of substantive debate on an issue, such as health care reform as an example, the partisan hackery/trollery must stop, and people of good will (you, me, many others) must come together to solve it.

In politics there is very little black and white, it's mostly a million shades of gray. Personally, I swing to the concervative shades of gray, but I will in no wise consider that I, or my ilk, have all the answers...

The search for the answers to the problems besetting us, not only here in the US, but world wide; demand, nay scream, for people to stop with the foolishness of partisanship and deal with the world as it is, not as we dream it is. The reality of situations demand we "deny ignorance". Part of that is to "deny partisanship".

Rant over.

Originally posted by Stanton Dowd
The whole political landscape is there as a huge distraction, as I'm sure you know.

I would disagree, imagine if more and more people knew most of it were distractions and wanted to focus on the real issues.

I think what you are doing is perhaps focus on politicians in politics too much instead of considering the impact of making many more people politically-conscious... on the real issues.

Originally posted by Stanton Dowd
You can protest until the end of eternity, you can even vote...

But it will make no difference.

And it will continue to make no differences as long as politically-conscious people don't participate.

If so many people that don't undertand politics are out there rallying about Sarah Paulin's writtings on her hands and a large number of those that do understand the political landscape stay at home or refuse to participate in political debate then........ the illusion in politics that you speak of now will only become worse.

Am I not correct?

reply to post by SkepticOverlord


While I agree that is need for something done with the political forum, perhaps ban the entire forum for a time being to get "the message into the head of no only the trolls and those that have engaged into the purpose of distraction, but ATS needs to get a littler more savvy into finding out if outside forces are at play here also, meaning with all the political instability in our nation any site that focus on political bashing could be monitored and infiltrated.

Now I said ban the forum for a short time and see who's member will be the ones to become exiles for that time being and see how many of them will come back as soon the forum is up.

Plain and simple, I thing ATS have plenty of "moderators" that can focus on perhaps who is causing the trolling, bickering and distractions.

Even I have taken a step down when it comes to political bickering in ATS



[edit on 2-3-2010 by marg6043]

reply to post by Stanton Dowd


Revolution, you say? What is voting, or being involved in getting a candidate of your choice elected? Would seem to me, anyway, that those are both forms of revolution...

If you stay home and don't involve yourself in the process are you not playing right into the hands of those "owners"...? So you must be liking the stuff they're serving, huh?

Things will only change when you, and others like you who don't think you matter, get off your couches and get involved in the process.

Don't like the process? Well change it, or help to do so. No one person can do it, But a lot of one person's can... It's been done many, many times.

Poland and the rest of the Warsaw Pact. The Philippines and many other places.

Things won't change if you continue to acquiesce to the status quo. It's not going to be easy...hell, it won't be easy here on ATS, much less in the world outside. But it has to start somewhere...why not with you and me, and a host of others here?

reply to post by Diplomat


Star
Your are correct IMO to indorse the quote you did.
It is all about accountability and it has trickled right down to the children.
Is it a political plan? I hope so. Because I think the people are much better than the PTB.
Demanding accountability is a solution not just a moan.