We, ATS Members, Must Focus On Politics

I Hope my following statements will not be deemed being off-topic and summarily dismissed as irrelevant.

Our problem as a nation is bigger in scope than "bankers" and politics.

Last night I finished the book, A Terrible Mistake by H.P. Albarrelli, Jr. It is a new book, an 800-page account of the murder of a CIA scientist by the CIA because he was considered a threat to some of their totally unchecked and dirty secrets about biological warefare experiments done on thousand of unsuspecting American citizens for over forty years.

My point is that our problem is a core problem, one of morality and intregrity that is lacking in our central powers of government. We are teased away from that realization by being danced around in circles by politics and international relations and placaded by shiny things in the stores.

With the growing extinction of religions--which have outgrown their usefulness, in my view--we have lost our perspective of making ourselves "better" and only strive constantly to "best" our otherwise equals whether they live next door or halfway around the globe.

When the highest authority in a average person's life becomes governmental dictates and the dollar, the game becomes one of winning for all of the diverse PTB.

I believe the unstated message in the attempt to start this dialogue on ATS is based on a critical-eyed view that we are rapidly approaching a point of no return in this country (if not elsewhere) where our choices are rapidly evaporating.

Those choices are to tear things down, which is a most horrible proposition, or REALLY change things. (IDNVFO*) The civil way is via new brands of politics that come from the grass roots. Those would be starting places, far imperfect, but starting places that would demand constant attention and constant control from those that placed them in power. Having to wait four years to weed out the mistakes is too long in today's world.

The Obama phenomena has shown us that the will for a better country if not world is present within many of us. We can divorce ourselves from the straight jackets of the two political parties. That sham is part of their ploy. It allows for an ease of control. Most of their arguments is over relatively trivial things to keep your attention off the larger schemes--abortion, even health care is magnified bigger than needless wars.

We can make a difference sitting behind a computer in the kitchen or spare bedroom. A dialogue is necessary to start the action. And it has started. ATS can contribute strongly to the effort in earnest here with the voices of the common folk.

Now, I gotta go vote in the Texas primary.




(*I Did Not Vote For Obama)

As of late I generally stear clear of political discussions. I am not from the US and really do not want stir things up for the natives.

But more than that.......

I do "lurk" on the political threads, but it is frustrating watching the threads inevitably turn down the partisan road. Us vs. them with a smattering of "take them both out".

It is akin to the
Atheist vs. Religious threads, or
Believers vs. skeptics

these topics/threads never seem to end well.

People, by nature innately "choose" a side and rarely are they open to all sides and possibilities. There are those who embrace science, evidence etc. who need to see it and touch it to believe, and then there are those who have an emotional, spiritual or need to "feel" it sense of being.

I have never seen such obstinate support and passion for anything that could compare to US citizens and their politics. In Canada, we care, but politics is not something generally discussed with the same enthusiasm.

SO

Has anyone ever thought about making a statement of beliefs a mandatory part of a members profile?
Sort of like a voter registration. This way it would be easier to push the ignore button before wasting your time replying to another member you know is already in opposition or in harmony with your thoughts.
This might help keep trolls away, save band width, improve civility and initiate some measure of accountability.
Just sayin

reply to post by Aliensun

Now, I gotta go vote in the Texas primary.

The rest of your post was, of course, more than worthy. But the quote above... Without that, what's the point of all the other?

Well done.

I agree that we ought to be far more interested in politics. But I think that any emphasis on US politics would be a bad idea. Although American politics is important for the world as a whole, its not worth concentrating on, if only because there are LOTS of very important games in town.
Also , I think any emphasis on the US political system would cause people outside the US to become disinterested in the subject, and would also pander to that section of the membership who are A)american and B) are introverted and only interested in what happens in America, and to Americans. Please do not take offense at this, I only say it because I have noticed a trend for certain thought patterns emerging from some people that lead me to the conclusion that they have a very isolationist attitude toward the rest of the world . Theres a youtube video which staggered me in which a cameraman and presenter went around an american city asking people simple questions about capital cities of other nations, and to cut a long story short, it seemed like they didnt know anything about what was happening outside their own STATE !
On a completely different note, I would like to know what the mods intend to do if a post or thread becomes contaminated with xenophobic morons. I would like to know if the mods are of the opinion that xenophobia is not a legitimate political attitude, and that any post/thread containing overwhelming levels of thier filth therfore would be removed. Just checking , because xenophobes are a cancer, and I dont think they ought to be allowed platforms to sling dung from .

Originally posted by OzWeatherman
Last time I made a comment on a political thread about the USA, I was told to shut up as Im not in the country and therefore my opinion doesnt count

I think it's really important to get feedback from people who AREN'T directly involved. It brings a fresh, new perspective. So, as a US citizen, I welcome your viewpoint. It DOES count. Anyone who tells you it doesn't, likely just doesn't agree with it.

And if I shut up every time someone told me to... well, I wouldn't be here.

Political discussions from around the world are relevant. We're all one big world, and the "game" of politics is similar, no matter where one lives.

Originally posted by zazzafrazz
Being political is being part of a belief system.

Having ANY beliefs is being part of a belief system. Being political simply means that one is aware of what's going on and has opinions about the issues, problems and ways to solve them.

Originally posted by zazzafrazz
Not all of us require that kind of validation by being part of a collective.

Being political doesn't mean belonging to a party. I have never belonged to a party and most of my posts are political. I have strong views about political issues, but I don't need a party to tell me what to think. I don't fit in any party and I think, if we were all honest, very few of us fit 100% in any party. My political dream is that everyone would cast aside the parties (even Independent) and "unregister" as a political party member and vote for the person we agree with most. That's how I've done all my voting. I wish we would all let go of these "collectives" and free ourselves from the pressure of belonging to a "team".

reply to post by ImaginaryReality1984


I agree strongly with you. I love ATS and I have some really good cyber-friends here. But this repeated thread-making about cleaning up the political scene on ATS is falling of deaf ears. It reminds me of Congress making new laws while not enforcing the old ones.

The T&C are complete. They are clear. And with very few exceptions, there really isn't a whole lot of room for interpretation. But time and time again, I see a thread like this come out and for a couple weeks, people are careful to respect the new lines drawn in the sand (which are really just a re-drawing of the old lines). But after a couple weeks, things begin to slide, people get loose, a few insults are tested, and pretty soon, the crap is flying hot and heavy... Then Skeptic authors another thread appealing to the rational adults inside us all, and it starts all over again... I can't say how many times I've seen this pattern.

I know it's hard to be so strict with the rules and really, the staff shouldn't have to be. But if they are not, this is where we end up. In this cycle of political mud-slinging that can be found on any other board on the net.

It seems to me that the staff of ATS REALLY wants a mature, logical, critical, civil discussion about politics. And that is admirable. It is also what many of us want. But there are some people who DO NOT want that, and they lead the descent into mud-slinging every time. If it's not stopped as soon as it begins, then others join in and pretty soon, it's like a food fight in here.

Just my opinion.

reply to post by TrueBrit


You have a valid point, and it's one I agree with. With only this slight proviso... The ATS membership is, for better or for worse, made up largely of Americans, with large helpings of Canadians, British, and other Europeans. American politics are, naturally enough, going to dominate. European and Canadian politics fascinate me...though since I know little to nothing of the personalities I contribute little to any discussion.

I would encourage all of you who have an interest in non-American politics to begin making threads about the politics of your countries and regions... I, for one, will at the very least, read them. No knowledge is wasted.

reply to post by lordtyp0

Personally I think it would be awesome to have a "put the proof where the comment is" philosophy. But in many discussions that would not work out too well.

This is not so simple, if a person thinks about it.

I hear people screaming for proof, then they turn around in the same thread and yell that people are not being original and that their thinking is the work of another author.

Many of the issues WTC included, are not that simple, needing some sort of alternate thinking in order to uncover the cover up, if one exists.

This is the manner of a good conspiracy, hidden agenda. This also means that there is little evidence to go on, not that there is no hidden agenda due to lack of physical evidence.

Physical evidence in hidden agendas is tough to come up with. Those are the facts. This is not court people. This is where hidden agendas are discussed and physical evidence is destroyed and covered up.

reply to post by seagull


I think thats what I was talking about in the first place. I know that the President of the USA is Mr Obama, and so does every other person here in Britain. But not every American knows the name Gordon Brown. I think thats why there should be monitoring to make sure that ALL politics is included in equal amounts.UK, European, Russian, Asian, Arab, all in equal doses,no over all emphasis. Concentrating on one nations politics for an inordinate amount of time, is like trying to learn everything about particle physics by looking at a single hydrogen atom. Its not going to learn you nearly enough !

If as you say "we are obligated to be political", then we are also obligated to entertain any discussion, based on individual opinion as per whatever self education one has chosen to bring to the discussion. Opinion, is also part and parcel of an ideologically based belief system containing whatever false impressions are inherant in the framework of media and information. "Fact", is not neccessarily a byproduct of available information or an intrinsic part of any given political topic.
Ultimatly we are left with only opinion and a degree of emotion that drives ones belief system when truth and fact are obfuscated within the context of the political discourse. Certainly humanity strives for some vague betterment, still reaching beyond ones humanity is an idyllic dream that is better left to evolution. In essence, political discourse will "always" devolve below the "ideal". My point is that we can never know the factual when perspective is dilineated throughout a given society stemming from diversity of background/education/experiance/ temperament/motive.

YouSir

I'm glad for the strong suggestion that you have made Skeptic overlord. It is imperative that all of us re-enter the politcal debate and try to make a difference.
What I personally would like to find is WHERE IS THE COMMON GROUND? We have so many needs that fail to be adressed while highly volatile yet inconsequential subjects consume the face time of politcos to score talking points and sustain their images.
As the old lady from the Wendy's commercials used to say - "Where's the beef?".
With the open platform ATS provides we can bring issues to the fore and find solutions that we could all support. Great movements begin with smaller ones. We can be the difference. Heck, WE ARE THE WORLD, not Quincy Jones and the mallstar choir. It is our duty as citizens of our respective nations and of the world to enhance the dialogue on meaningful issues.
We are at a crucial time in the development of mankind. The course set now may be the thing that brings ruin upon us or a new golden age depending on the choices we make now.
Let's bring information and spirit to the table and define for ourselves what our collective course shall be. We have become one giant, global kitchen table. Let's break bread and talk about it.

Originally posted by Subjective Truth
No offence but perceived? You thread was a very clear rant about how you don't want ATS to have political debate. And then when ATS members questioned that you never posted one reply?

And now it seems to be a total 180 degree turn. Why did not just keep the other thread going and post replies in it?

If I'm reading this right, I can safely assume that you and any others who have these unanswered questions simply did not understand the initial thread at all.

That thread was stating that the owners and MODS WANT political debate. They just were sick and tired of the people that simply goded others into emotional and anger filled responses thus derailing the thread.

Then you come in and make an unfounded claim that ATS is making a 180 on political debate when in fact this post falls directly in line with what they have always preached and what they preached in the last thread.

I wonder sometimes.

Great point SO in this post. Politics is probably at the crux of ALL conspiracies in one way or another. I know you are trying to be generous and give it a 98% number but I bet you can find some form of political influence in about every conspiracy conceived. After all, politics is about wealth and wealth is about conspiracy to get more wealth and keep the bulk of the masses from obtaining it.

Originally posted by Donny 4 million
SO

Has anyone ever thought about making a statement of beliefs a mandatory part of a members profile?
Sort of like a voter registration. This way it would be easier to push the ignore button before wasting your time replying to another member you know is already in opposition or in harmony with your thoughts.
This might help keep trolls away, save band width, improve civility and initiate some measure of accountability.
Just sayin

Perhaps not a bad idea, but I came to ATS to grow (hopefully) which means I am free to change opinions. There have been several threads on ATS which have opened me to different views by presenting information that was new to me. After spending considerable time on the site I've also come to know members who consistently provide good stories and relevant information, acting somewhat as filters for me to judge the quality of the content. To require a statement of beliefs would be to put on a mental straightjacket that could never come off. It would also function as a pre-ignore button to some who have very different beliefs. I would prefer to judge posts by the content of the post and not the creator of it.

reply to post by Asktheanimals


Common ground is, of course, wherever people of goodwill find a place of agreement, or if not agreement, compromise.

Sometimes you'll find compromise in the oddest of places. But where you won't find it, is in divisive rhetoric.

Not to put words in his mouth, but what SkepticOverlord is saying, IMHO, is not to stop disagreeing with each other, but to put aside our partisanship, and be willing to listen to all ideas concerning where our world is headed. We can, politely, say someone is perhaps mistaken and may be headed down a wrong path, but be ready, nay willing, to have an alternative proposition. It does no good to shout from the rooftops "Your wrong..." unless you've got an alternative to propose.

Political debate can solve problems if the debaters are willing to listen as well as pontificate...

Listen, as well as opine is the message here, I think...

Must focus on Politics?

You know, between my ADD, confusion with languages, ADHD, i guess i better reconsider what and how and if i post.

Its getting a little oppressive here. Sorry.

just to remind you all that Politics, Policy and Bureaucracy are three completely different subjects,

no reason to shout at the door for not using the handle to open it.

what a bunch of kiss asses. as soon as SO posts something you all rush to post like he's your wicked father.
its a shame you can't mow his lawn and do his dishes.
i have posted a lot of political stuff on here ,and if you don't exactly please the mods,you get punished. it's like they're a bunch of children.
we shopuld be able to censor the mods, thats who need it.
maybe if some of the mods grew up,it would be a real place to express yourself.
blind authority and censorsghip live here. and SO is a prime example.

DENY ARROGANCE

[edit on 2-3-2010 by Spectre0o0]

reply to post by SkepticOverlord

Skeptic wrote:

We are obligated to be political...

. ...I say: No we are not!

At least, not yet, until Obama comes up with a new, communist law where we HAVE TO vote, and HAVE TO be political. I don't like politics and am not interested in it, nor will I ever be. I was just curious why the big boss of the forum is suddenly getting so active...now I know. They want us to be more "political" - ain't gonna happen for me!

Thanks, but no thanks!

reply to post by EMPIRE





[edit on 2-3-2010 by gimme_some_truth]

I beleive the proper terminology is SYCOPHANTS.

Its been an ongoing drama event follow up here for years. I tell it like it is. I see Sycophants.

I have nothing to gain by licking boots, all i wanted here is to follow the rules, but if they are going to be extreme, i dont know if i can handle them.

I do enough bootlicking in my everyday life and with this everyday government. I dont want to do that here. Never have, never will.

See you in the silly meaningless threads. At least i know i can bring some reasoning to those forums!



[edit on 2-3-2010 by dgtempe]