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We, ATS Members, Must Focus On Politics
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Every political topic I have started, I tried to always be polite, I slowed down on political topics because I was tired of the insults, and then the
political madness forum sprung up, and I thought politics was not a good idea, maybe no longer welcome on the forum, some of my earlier political
threads, I thought, brought forth a lot of good information,
I wish I had a dollar for every time I was called a racist.
Let me pimp this topic that I believe is important to any owner of an internet forum such as this,
It didn't even get noticed.
Evolving Responsibility for Preserving a First Amendment Miracle
www.abovetopsecret.com...
www.theregister.co.uk...
US government rescinds 'leave internet alone' policy
www.ntia.doc.gov...
Yes, we better talk politics!
I wish I had a dollar for every time I was called a racist.
Let me pimp this topic that I believe is important to any owner of an internet forum such as this,
It didn't even get noticed.
Evolving Responsibility for Preserving a First Amendment Miracle
www.abovetopsecret.com...
www.theregister.co.uk...
US government rescinds 'leave internet alone' policy
www.ntia.doc.gov...
The US government’s policy of leaving the Internet alone is over, according to Obama’s top official at the Department of Commerce.
The new approach is a far cry from a US government that consciously decided not to intrude into the internet’s functioning and growth and in so doing allowed an academic network to turn into a global communications phenomenon.
In the UK, the Digital Economy Bill currently making its way through Parliament has been the subject of significant controversy for advocating strict rules on copyright infringement and threatening to ban people from the internet if they are found to do so. The bill includes a wide variety of other measures, including giving regulator Ofcom a wider remit, forcing ISPs to monitor their customers’ behavior, and allowing the government to take over the dot-uk registry.
Yes, we better talk politics!
I'm not that into the political debates, especially because of the fake two party system...
Left vs. Right
Reps vs. Dems
Voters vs. Non-Voters
etc. etc. etc.
I would take this OP a step further and demand of the ATS members to look beyond politics, beyond the system we have in place today, beyond representative democratic capitalism, beyond the Constitution even...
Just think for a second, if there is indeed an alternative way to have a society: no more poverty, no more class war, more justice and even eco- & self-sustainable... wouldn't that alternative automatically be subject to one of the worst smear campaigns in history?
Imo, too many people still think politics in this current system can change the tide, whereas the way I see it, the government is doing exactly what it was created to do:
protect the interests of the Owners and keep the slaves at bay with law enforcement.
Left vs. Right
Reps vs. Dems
Voters vs. Non-Voters
etc. etc. etc.
I would take this OP a step further and demand of the ATS members to look beyond politics, beyond the system we have in place today, beyond representative democratic capitalism, beyond the Constitution even...
Just think for a second, if there is indeed an alternative way to have a society: no more poverty, no more class war, more justice and even eco- & self-sustainable... wouldn't that alternative automatically be subject to one of the worst smear campaigns in history?
Imo, too many people still think politics in this current system can change the tide, whereas the way I see it, the government is doing exactly what it was created to do:
protect the interests of the Owners and keep the slaves at bay with law enforcement.
I'll agree that we should focus on politics, but only to an extent! I say this because it has been politics that has gotten us into trouble to begin
with! I have, throughout my 47 years of existence on this planet had the opportunity to talk with many different people from all ethnic backgrounds.
From the middle east, to the samoan islands, we are all the same at heart! We as a people want the same things, laughter, love, giving, receiving, and just plainly being a good neighbor to our foreign brothers and sisters! We may worship God in many differant ways and langiages, but we all believe that we will end up some place good, and for eternity.
The problems on planet earth lie with our govt's, not the general populous! Until all govt's learn to overcome greed, lust, selfishness, and war, nothing's ever gonna change, and forums like ATS will forever remain at large discussing on just what to do and how.
You don't make peace by building bigger bombs and killing your neighbors' citizens, and you're sure not building peace by invading sovereign nations that have harmed nobody! The blame for allowing govt's to do what they do lies solely on the backs of you, me, and all who have remained sitting back and doing nothing but talking about it all the time!
Look at politics people! Both democrats and republicans whine and cry at how they BOTH hate big gov't, and yet look around and what do you see? More, and more, and more BIG GOV'T! So why talk about politics if we're NOT REALLY going to DO ANYTHING about IT?!!!!!!!
Focus on politics? We better be focusing on survival, cause politics are just about gone up the creek without a paddle! Votem out you say? How's that gonna happen when they control the voting process? Take a look at AL Franken? He talked a lotta crap when he was a guest on Bill Maher, and now look at him as a Minnesota Senator? He's following his orders just like the rest of them are!
The only celebrety that got anything done that I ever seen was Gov Jessie Ventura when he was in office in Minnesota. When the american citizen once again controls politics, then might be a good time to focus on them, but for now, we better stay focused on survival and keeping our constitution in tact!
From the middle east, to the samoan islands, we are all the same at heart! We as a people want the same things, laughter, love, giving, receiving, and just plainly being a good neighbor to our foreign brothers and sisters! We may worship God in many differant ways and langiages, but we all believe that we will end up some place good, and for eternity.
The problems on planet earth lie with our govt's, not the general populous! Until all govt's learn to overcome greed, lust, selfishness, and war, nothing's ever gonna change, and forums like ATS will forever remain at large discussing on just what to do and how.
You don't make peace by building bigger bombs and killing your neighbors' citizens, and you're sure not building peace by invading sovereign nations that have harmed nobody! The blame for allowing govt's to do what they do lies solely on the backs of you, me, and all who have remained sitting back and doing nothing but talking about it all the time!
Look at politics people! Both democrats and republicans whine and cry at how they BOTH hate big gov't, and yet look around and what do you see? More, and more, and more BIG GOV'T! So why talk about politics if we're NOT REALLY going to DO ANYTHING about IT?!!!!!!!
Focus on politics? We better be focusing on survival, cause politics are just about gone up the creek without a paddle! Votem out you say? How's that gonna happen when they control the voting process? Take a look at AL Franken? He talked a lotta crap when he was a guest on Bill Maher, and now look at him as a Minnesota Senator? He's following his orders just like the rest of them are!
The only celebrety that got anything done that I ever seen was Gov Jessie Ventura when he was in office in Minnesota. When the american citizen once again controls politics, then might be a good time to focus on them, but for now, we better stay focused on survival and keeping our constitution in tact!
Originally posted by EMPIRE
I sent them the rough draft for the proposed thread, got a couple of replies, and was told that everyone had saw it. Shortly after, maybe five days, SO makes his great troll thread. Now, after that thread, I see this thread. Again, some of the same concepts that I presented are in each of his threads, and coupled with the timing, it's hard for me to chalk it to coincidence.
I wonder if the U2U I sent you guys a week ago has anything to do with this thread...
However, the timing is strange as this thread, and the U2U I sent them are awfully close together.
OK first I am posting as a member... NOT a mod... After all, mods are members first and mods last...
I have seen you imply several times in Bill's last two threads that they were in some shape, inspired by you....
Don't deny that....
Do you realize the irony in making such a claim? Do you realize what it indicates about you when you are saying that two threads about stopping trolling are inspired by you?
Do you realize that you keep implying that you are a troll? I am guessing not...
For some people here tact and wit are foreign concepts. They are oblivious to such things and might as well be asleep or worse.
I couldn't agree with you more on that one... Some people, huh?
The hypocrisy of the mods and admins, coupled with their hair trigger reactions is part of the problem.
Really? Hair trigger reactions? It is funny... Painstakingly figuring out the problems with trolling and how to fix it, rather than just swing the ban hammer as so many other websites do, is hair trigger? And all this time I thought a hair trigger reaction was the same thing as a knee jerk reaction... Apparently it is just the opposite though... Thanks for that education.
We didn’t tell S.O. to make this thread, but I will give credit where credit is due because on many boards, the owners don’t participate and the ban hammer is heavy.
Wait a minute... What happened to that hair trigger response you were just telling me about? I guess it is gone now? Interesting.
the holier than thou garbage needs to cease. More members need to start stepping up to the plate
I agree... Care to lead by example as so many are doing? Or would you just like to continue as you are? No skin off of my back either way.
Why do you confuse being open and calling it how it is with despising this place? I’m telling you what I see as a problem and I’m offering you a solution to fix the problem.
Hmm, everybody must have missed that... What is your solution again?
What I’m openly doing is questioning the motivations of the owner, questioning staff, pointing out the problem and providing solutions to the problem and sharing my experience. However, in doing so, it seems as if you and others perceive my actions as hostile when it’s simply “to the point” constructive criticism.
There is a reason why everyone is perceiving your posts as hostile... What do you think that could be?
As for that constructive criticism, see above where I ask you to go ahead and state your solution....
It has nothing to do with me and everything to do with people not stepping up to the plate. I’m talking mods, admins, and members who are unwilling to practice some form of self-restraint.
So make it about you and lead by example.. Be the change you wish to see... If you keep on this path... Well... you will make no changes... In fact I have noticed that more and more people are getting turned off by you.
S.O. pointed out what he perceived as a problem and I’m taking things a step further and showing you guys exactly what the problem is—your house isn’t clean.
You don't seem capable of making up your mind... Is the problem with the mods, the owners, the membership as a whole... Or what? You keep changing your mind... Let me know when you figure it out... And please, let us know when you get that solution too... Of course, I guess you will have to figure out the problem first.
Again, ATS shouldn’t be based on one persons viewpoint as we’re all different, from many walks of life, etc. However, where do we draw the line or where do you guys draw the line?
It is not even POSSIBLE for ATS to be based on just one persons view point.. The members come from all around the world and each have very different backgrounds, thoughts and opinions... The line is drawn here Terms & Conditions Of Use, If you break those rules than you have crossed the line... It is a rather simple thing to understand...
Is that what you call it? Well then, I would hate to see you when you get angry.....
However, what I’m doing is volunteering my time as a member and pointing out something that you guys have obviously overlooked.
You know what? This call to arms is a complete joke. And I don't know why the other members can't see it for what it is.
Perhaps when you are seeing a dog, but everyone else sees a cat, it is not everybody else who are seeing things incorrectly..... No... that would make far to much sense... Silly me.
I think what you've done, is went over my proposed thread with a fine tooth comb, pillaged it for the ideas and concepts conveyed and used some sort of weird verbal alchemy to change it to fit your purpose.
Wow, again with that? Really? You think far to much of yourself... Come back down to earth...
I'm calling this for what it is.
Yeah....... Me to.....
I agree. I’ve been attacked, in the other thread SO made even
Disagreeing is NOT attacking.. Even you have implied that, so I wonder why the change of heart when the one being disagreed with... Is YOU...?
We had a drug forum what happened?
We still do......
We don’t have free speech, we have limited speech and are bound by the T&C.
Yeah, that's the internet for you... Interesting how the constitution stops at America Online huh? That is why private sites have private rules... I am surprised you do not know that about the internet... Yeah... The constitution does not apply to the internet...
I then go on to tell YOU that I prefer if HE came out and stated his intentions and not conceal it. In other words “say it.” Say what? Say you’re doing it for the bucks, or that you need donations, etc.
And that is exactly what he has done... Whether you want his intentions to be something else or not... He has stated his intentions perfectly clear.... Just because you think he has different intentions, does not make it so... Sorry... You are really not that powerful...
Disagreeing is not shunning... You seem like a smart person... I am surprised you don't know that...
if you and other members feel guilty or want to shun me for doing it I’m cool with it.
You can say they were rude and condescending till the sun goes down
OK,thanks for giving me permission.
Now, you and I have never even talked before.. This is the first time I have ever replied to you at all... I am sure you will disagree with everything I say. But be a grown up about it... I am not bias, I am not abusing my powers and their is no corruption even though you think there is...
Each and every staff member, is just an ordinary human being.. We each VOLUNTEER our time. We each have families of our own, and jobs, and lives to live... trust me when I say there is NOTHING to gain from attempting to corrupt the system.. Nothing! We are simply volunteers. have you ever volunteered before?
I am a member of ATS who just happens to agree to volunteer my time. And as a member of this site, I want it to be known, that I disagree with you completely. I think you are wrong in every sense of the word, and if that makes me bias, or a hypocrite for disagreeing with you... Then so be it!
Good day.
reply to post by ImaginaryReality1984
I have no problem with making money first, again, this site is a business, but don’t try to pimp the congregation with a do good sermon or rallying cry because some of us won’t fall for it.
If anyone has been insulting it is SO, ATS staff, and those who seek to insult the intelligence of free thinkers. You are failing because you simply refuse to look objectively and see things for what they are. It is not illogical for me to say that if you don’t like America that you should leave. Why? Because SO cited the United States several times in his thread and suggests that we “Expose the corruption inherent in both "sides" of the artificial two-party system.” So here I am saying that before we expose any corruption, we need to expose the corruption here, but here you are telling me if I don’t like it to leave the website. So why isn’t SO telling anyone to leave America? Why aren’t you telling anyone to leave America? As for your opinions about ramblings and all of that, you can call it how you want, you are entitled to your opinion, but you’re a hypocrite. A member can state his views and you tell him to leave, yet the owner of the site can tell people to rise up against the two party system and you, and the rest of the sycophants cheer, star and flag the guy. So if I take a hostile tone, oh well, my gloves are off and I’m going to continue to post the way I see fit, but it will be just within the confines of ATS T&C. The mods have already shown me how they care about me, so I’m showing them, and anyone who agrees with them, how I feel.
The confusion is on your end not how I communicate. Again, you should have probably read what I was responding to before you actually respond, and doing a one liner like that, was a bad move on your part.
I did name someone. Who were you originally talking about? SO and ATS staff correct? Did you not R-E-A-D the reply? Here let me show it to you again, only this time I’ll bold it and this will prove that you’re a selective reader and should probably go take a nap or something:
Again, no confusion on my part, you simply lack the cognitive skills to read critically.
I just showed how you butcher content. In response to your statement I tell you what SO is doing. Later in the paragraph I refer to SO by using pronouns. However, and I still can’t figure it out, you somehow think I’m referring to YOU when I clearly stated I was talking about SO and replying to your claims about what ATS staff (and SO) are doing. If I’m talking to YOU, why would I use pronouns to address YOU?
First off, I quoted EVERYTHING you said. Not one thing was left out. Again, you’re trying to convey the idea that you see no problem in making some extra cash and say they put in work so the site is a better place for discussion. In response to all of that, I say “Well say it” and proceed to tell you what SO is not saying and that he is hiding his intentions. Again, if you’re confused it’s because you want to be confused.
The only fractured thing here is your way of thinking. If I’m talking about YOU why would I refer to YOU as SO? If I’m talking about YOU why would I use pronouns to talk to YOU?
Go to bed.
[edit on 2-3-2010 by EMPIRE]
Again this comes down to perception of motivation. Some people think they are doing their best for the users while also making money, others such as yourself see it as money only and the users as an afterthought. I guess we'll have to agree to disagree on this one.
I have no problem with making money first, again, this site is a business, but don’t try to pimp the congregation with a do good sermon or rallying cry because some of us won’t fall for it.
Ok lets break this one down. I am saying if you don't like this website then leave it yes absolutely, or change it, but you seem unable to change things without being insulting. You then say myself and SO should leave the USA if we do not like it, the problem with this is that i am not in the USA. It seems illogical telling me to leave a country i am not a part of and yet you accuse me of failing in logic. SO was not telling us to leave the website for questioning, only to leave if you have nothing constructive to say. I can understand why people would ask you to leave when you just insult. You may think your ideas are being presented in a decent manner but honestly they just seem like the ramblings of a teenager. Step back and offer them up in a decent way. Others have said you may have a point and should starta thread about it, so please do and post me a message when you do. Just make sure you try and avoid the hostile tones.
If anyone has been insulting it is SO, ATS staff, and those who seek to insult the intelligence of free thinkers. You are failing because you simply refuse to look objectively and see things for what they are. It is not illogical for me to say that if you don’t like America that you should leave. Why? Because SO cited the United States several times in his thread and suggests that we “Expose the corruption inherent in both "sides" of the artificial two-party system.” So here I am saying that before we expose any corruption, we need to expose the corruption here, but here you are telling me if I don’t like it to leave the website. So why isn’t SO telling anyone to leave America? Why aren’t you telling anyone to leave America? As for your opinions about ramblings and all of that, you can call it how you want, you are entitled to your opinion, but you’re a hypocrite. A member can state his views and you tell him to leave, yet the owner of the site can tell people to rise up against the two party system and you, and the rest of the sycophants cheer, star and flag the guy. So if I take a hostile tone, oh well, my gloves are off and I’m going to continue to post the way I see fit, but it will be just within the confines of ATS T&C. The mods have already shown me how they care about me, so I’m showing them, and anyone who agrees with them, how I feel.
Yeah it gets confusing when you quote me and then say "well say it", you can understand the confusio on that surely? Again a problem with how you communicate.
The confusion is on your end not how I communicate. Again, you should have probably read what I was responding to before you actually respond, and doing a one liner like that, was a bad move on your part.
You quoted me and then replied without naming someone within your text, an easy mistake of mine.
I did name someone. Who were you originally talking about? SO and ATS staff correct? Did you not R-E-A-D the reply? Here let me show it to you again, only this time I’ll bold it and this will prove that you’re a selective reader and should probably go take a nap or something:
Well say it. Why try to PIMP the users by giving them a false sense of security or value? What SO is doing is no different from what TPTB do when it comes to voting, which is, give the masses and idea, or something to strive for, allow them to think they have power, direct them towards the agenda and sit back as the dough piles up. Friend, this is Hegelian Dialectic. I'd prefer if he came out and stated his intentions not conceal it under some do-gooder speech.
Again, no confusion on my part, you simply lack the cognitive skills to read critically.
Users such as myself struggle when someone quotes them directly, replies to them directly and then accuses them of butchering content. Seriously now calm down and make a thread about the issues which we can reply to. Please contact me if you decide to make the thread.
I just showed how you butcher content. In response to your statement I tell you what SO is doing. Later in the paragraph I refer to SO by using pronouns. However, and I still can’t figure it out, you somehow think I’m referring to YOU when I clearly stated I was talking about SO and replying to your claims about what ATS staff (and SO) are doing. If I’m talking to YOU, why would I use pronouns to address YOU?
You said "well say it" in direct response to my post and you quoted me just before you typed those words. Talk about selective reading all you like, you are not putting fourth your argument very well. How about i quote what you did to make it easier for you to understand how you confused me.
First off, I quoted EVERYTHING you said. Not one thing was left out. Again, you’re trying to convey the idea that you see no problem in making some extra cash and say they put in work so the site is a better place for discussion. In response to all of that, I say “Well say it” and proceed to tell you what SO is not saying and that he is hiding his intentions. Again, if you’re confused it’s because you want to be confused.
Very, very confusing.
Meh i'm just not bothering with you after this utterly fractured way you respond to someone.
The only fractured thing here is your way of thinking. If I’m talking about YOU why would I refer to YOU as SO? If I’m talking about YOU why would I use pronouns to talk to YOU?
Go to bed.
[edit on 2-3-2010 by EMPIRE]
reply to post by EMPIRE
You accuse SO and Staff of being rude...
...yet I've been reading your replies in this very thread - and seriously...are they not at the very least smelling a little bit rude to you?
Is calling people selective readers, is accusing people of effectively plagiarizing one of your proposed threads, is telling people to go to bed, have a nap, basically getting seemingly a mite snarky and bent out of shape in some way not rude?
Perhaps I'm also a selective reader...or a selective thinker...perhaps I'm reading too much into your replies and also need to go to bed...as quite frankly I'm having some difficulty seeing the manner in which you're replying here as anything but *rude*.
However - feel free to correct me and show me how it isn't.
Peace.
You accuse SO and Staff of being rude...
...yet I've been reading your replies in this very thread - and seriously...are they not at the very least smelling a little bit rude to you?
Is calling people selective readers, is accusing people of effectively plagiarizing one of your proposed threads, is telling people to go to bed, have a nap, basically getting seemingly a mite snarky and bent out of shape in some way not rude?
Perhaps I'm also a selective reader...or a selective thinker...perhaps I'm reading too much into your replies and also need to go to bed...as quite frankly I'm having some difficulty seeing the manner in which you're replying here as anything but *rude*.
However - feel free to correct me and show me how it isn't.
Peace.
reply to post by EMPIRE
I'm sorry i won't bother with your reply because i showed you clearly where you directly quoted me and replied and then in a subsequent reply said you were not replying to me. The fact you cannot acknowledge this says a great deal about your willingness to concede a simple mistake (if it were a mistake, i am being generous). You then broke the confusion of your statement into multiple sentences in an attempt to subvert the original meaning. I would argue this was quote mining.
The odd thing is that many people have now pointed out where you are wrong and only you seem unable to see it, which would suggest it is you who is in the wrong.
However i will state it again, as you seem unable to grasp the situation, and i will do so in bold.
Please create a thread to make your points, make them without the ad hom attacks and message me the link, i will be happy to contribute as i am sure many others will. Indeed we may agree on many issues.
As for telling me to go to bed, well sir you are once again using ad hom attacks and you need to stop it, because all it does is damage your position.
So will you continue to argue on this thread or will you have the steel to actually create a new thread, with all of your arguments layed out clearly so that people may debate them? If you cannot do this then please go elsewhere as you are not worthy of this website.
I'm tired of the ad homs.
[edit on 2-3-2010 by ImaginaryReality1984]
I'm sorry i won't bother with your reply because i showed you clearly where you directly quoted me and replied and then in a subsequent reply said you were not replying to me. The fact you cannot acknowledge this says a great deal about your willingness to concede a simple mistake (if it were a mistake, i am being generous). You then broke the confusion of your statement into multiple sentences in an attempt to subvert the original meaning. I would argue this was quote mining.
The odd thing is that many people have now pointed out where you are wrong and only you seem unable to see it, which would suggest it is you who is in the wrong.
However i will state it again, as you seem unable to grasp the situation, and i will do so in bold.
Please create a thread to make your points, make them without the ad hom attacks and message me the link, i will be happy to contribute as i am sure many others will. Indeed we may agree on many issues.
As for telling me to go to bed, well sir you are once again using ad hom attacks and you need to stop it, because all it does is damage your position.
So will you continue to argue on this thread or will you have the steel to actually create a new thread, with all of your arguments layed out clearly so that people may debate them? If you cannot do this then please go elsewhere as you are not worthy of this website.
I'm tired of the ad homs.
[edit on 2-3-2010 by ImaginaryReality1984]
When I saw that little U2U icon glowing, little did I know.
Please indulge me in a bit of background. It shares how striking and deep this thread is to me personally, and how it matters to the rest of us.
I once had a promising little career in journalism. High school writer, resident poet (got a lot of guys out of a jam with my little custom poems for their girlfriends lol), and copy editor, editorial and feature writer, and eventual award-winner in my little corner of the world. I won a nod for a sports feature on blind athletes, and the equivalent of "state champion" in timed copy-editing, which is the stage of the journalism game where the actual article is "fit" into the available space. At least that is what it is supposed to be. More on that shortly.
During my senior year, I wrote an editorial about a gubernatorial run-off that was the epitome of childishness, poor sportsmanship, and fiscal waste. This article was published in the Dallas Morning News. I was encouraged to seek a career as a journalist, and I care deeply about getting the straightest facts possible, in order to supply those who seek solutions with the tools they need to do so, data. Editorials are another matter, and must be approached with a sense of duty and honor, and research, IMO. Data is crucial to everything now. Information is power, and communicating it properly is essential to its usefulness in the first place.
So I found it worthy and I could write, so off I went to try to become a journalist, and applied to my local state university, after taking some college courses in high school.
However, due to an unexpectedly happy score on the ACT (college entrance exam common in the US), I ended up at a better school than I had planned to go to. While waiting for the fall term to begin, I was fortunate enough to land a temp position as an assistant sports editor at our local county paper, at the local branch in my town, famous for a huge racetrack, Talladega. I got this position because of the sports article, which was given a nod at the state journalism competition back in high school.
This position led to a really great job as a writer and photographer for a paper in my new college town. I was the only staff writer over the whole summer and had free reign and a lot of fun writing articles about health, parking, employment, local theater, duplicity in the university's policies, utility information for students, resources available to them, even a story in the fall (maximum enrollment/circulation) about the horrifying news that FOUR students on the campus of thousands had been positively (and anonymously) tested for HIV. FOUR. I broke that story, and I hope, scared the condoms on to about 30,000 people per week, based on our circulation that fall.
I wrote an Independence Day editorial about the current debate about flag-burning, our founding fathers and how they guaranteed we could spout off this way without fear of persecution (just disgust or negativity), and how that was the real point of Independence Day...I had my freedom to generate and write stories that mattered to me and people around me, in college, in the town, state, and world that we were living in. I had good feedback, the future was great. I was going to approach all the things that stood like a tangled grove of hydra in front of the people who suffered. Wherever that took me, I would go. My goal was to go to the Middle East and get some answers. I met a man from the Middle East, interviewed him incessantly about his home country (Iraq, pre-Gulf war), and we eventually became close, and were considering marriage. This would have given me great advantages over other reporters like myself, especially in the late 80's, so my future as a responsible journalist looked good.
Then? Our editor was fired. He was the good one, the mentor, the one who would teach a cub like me how to find truth, how to determine which truth matters, and how to survive the process. Out. Instead we got the assistant editor, who promptly directed me to more advertising articles.
I continued to do my thing, and that fall, wrote a story about rush week at our school, which, I should add, is one of two which are the major sports teams in our state. We don't have much, but our two college teams are very important financially and culturally to the state. It's a big school.
Rush week is a seven-day period of courting between Greek fraternities and sororities and their potential new member$. I exposed one fraternity for breaking rules during this time, and was approached by a staff member who belonged to it. He asked me (since we were friends) to alter the story. I pointed out that without that information there WAS no story. So he stayed late, and I found out from the print room supervisor (the paper is printed at night) that this staff member had altered the story after hours, turned it in, and completely exonerated his fraternity in this way.
Next, I was on the ad stories. These are fake articles about businesses that buy expensive ads. The ad isn't enough, but now we have to actually talk about how great the business is, like that's really news, or as if it's true because we say it. That is pimping, friend. I am not a prostitute, and it makes my blood boil to be used, but I figured, that's the biz, just do what your superior tells you and go along.
I did theme issues over the summer, and the deal-breaker was over one of these fake stories I tried to turn into something real. It was, of all things, a bike shop article that finally did me in.
I wrote a series of articles on the emerging market of high-end bicycles, something most people did not consider when spending money on cars for college. We had a major reconstruction of the campus roads and parking areas that summer and fall, people were late for class, tickets were being issued, a real mess. So the issue basically proposed relying on bikes more and cars less. I highlighted the police confiscated bikes on campus, sold at auction several times a year, and went to the local bike shops to see the good ones, which were as much as a used economy car back then. Interviews and photos, one shop was friendly and open, one was too busy to talk to a "college" journalist, even though they bought ad space in that same paper, as it turned out. The nice shop did, too, so guess who got the lead, and the main focus of that article in the bike-themed issue?
Continued...
Please indulge me in a bit of background. It shares how striking and deep this thread is to me personally, and how it matters to the rest of us.
I once had a promising little career in journalism. High school writer, resident poet (got a lot of guys out of a jam with my little custom poems for their girlfriends lol), and copy editor, editorial and feature writer, and eventual award-winner in my little corner of the world. I won a nod for a sports feature on blind athletes, and the equivalent of "state champion" in timed copy-editing, which is the stage of the journalism game where the actual article is "fit" into the available space. At least that is what it is supposed to be. More on that shortly.
During my senior year, I wrote an editorial about a gubernatorial run-off that was the epitome of childishness, poor sportsmanship, and fiscal waste. This article was published in the Dallas Morning News. I was encouraged to seek a career as a journalist, and I care deeply about getting the straightest facts possible, in order to supply those who seek solutions with the tools they need to do so, data. Editorials are another matter, and must be approached with a sense of duty and honor, and research, IMO. Data is crucial to everything now. Information is power, and communicating it properly is essential to its usefulness in the first place.
So I found it worthy and I could write, so off I went to try to become a journalist, and applied to my local state university, after taking some college courses in high school.
However, due to an unexpectedly happy score on the ACT (college entrance exam common in the US), I ended up at a better school than I had planned to go to. While waiting for the fall term to begin, I was fortunate enough to land a temp position as an assistant sports editor at our local county paper, at the local branch in my town, famous for a huge racetrack, Talladega. I got this position because of the sports article, which was given a nod at the state journalism competition back in high school.
This position led to a really great job as a writer and photographer for a paper in my new college town. I was the only staff writer over the whole summer and had free reign and a lot of fun writing articles about health, parking, employment, local theater, duplicity in the university's policies, utility information for students, resources available to them, even a story in the fall (maximum enrollment/circulation) about the horrifying news that FOUR students on the campus of thousands had been positively (and anonymously) tested for HIV. FOUR. I broke that story, and I hope, scared the condoms on to about 30,000 people per week, based on our circulation that fall.
I wrote an Independence Day editorial about the current debate about flag-burning, our founding fathers and how they guaranteed we could spout off this way without fear of persecution (just disgust or negativity), and how that was the real point of Independence Day...I had my freedom to generate and write stories that mattered to me and people around me, in college, in the town, state, and world that we were living in. I had good feedback, the future was great. I was going to approach all the things that stood like a tangled grove of hydra in front of the people who suffered. Wherever that took me, I would go. My goal was to go to the Middle East and get some answers. I met a man from the Middle East, interviewed him incessantly about his home country (Iraq, pre-Gulf war), and we eventually became close, and were considering marriage. This would have given me great advantages over other reporters like myself, especially in the late 80's, so my future as a responsible journalist looked good.
Then? Our editor was fired. He was the good one, the mentor, the one who would teach a cub like me how to find truth, how to determine which truth matters, and how to survive the process. Out. Instead we got the assistant editor, who promptly directed me to more advertising articles.
I continued to do my thing, and that fall, wrote a story about rush week at our school, which, I should add, is one of two which are the major sports teams in our state. We don't have much, but our two college teams are very important financially and culturally to the state. It's a big school.
Rush week is a seven-day period of courting between Greek fraternities and sororities and their potential new member$. I exposed one fraternity for breaking rules during this time, and was approached by a staff member who belonged to it. He asked me (since we were friends) to alter the story. I pointed out that without that information there WAS no story. So he stayed late, and I found out from the print room supervisor (the paper is printed at night) that this staff member had altered the story after hours, turned it in, and completely exonerated his fraternity in this way.
Next, I was on the ad stories. These are fake articles about businesses that buy expensive ads. The ad isn't enough, but now we have to actually talk about how great the business is, like that's really news, or as if it's true because we say it. That is pimping, friend. I am not a prostitute, and it makes my blood boil to be used, but I figured, that's the biz, just do what your superior tells you and go along.
I did theme issues over the summer, and the deal-breaker was over one of these fake stories I tried to turn into something real. It was, of all things, a bike shop article that finally did me in.
I wrote a series of articles on the emerging market of high-end bicycles, something most people did not consider when spending money on cars for college. We had a major reconstruction of the campus roads and parking areas that summer and fall, people were late for class, tickets were being issued, a real mess. So the issue basically proposed relying on bikes more and cars less. I highlighted the police confiscated bikes on campus, sold at auction several times a year, and went to the local bike shops to see the good ones, which were as much as a used economy car back then. Interviews and photos, one shop was friendly and open, one was too busy to talk to a "college" journalist, even though they bought ad space in that same paper, as it turned out. The nice shop did, too, so guess who got the lead, and the main focus of that article in the bike-themed issue?
Continued...
Sorry for the long post, nearly done now.
After the alteration of the article on rule-breaking during rush week, I felt insecure in what I was doing and what the point would be if ANYONE could do this. How to explain to the public? How to print a retraction for an article I wrote and someone else altered? As I pointed out above, and as a former editor, even for the DOJ later on, I know, and we all know the difference between editing to fit space, and altering to change meaning and consequence.
I gritted my teeth and kept on. The bike issue happened, and the newly-promoted editor altered it to put the uncooperative bike shop in the lead of the story. Does this make sense? She basically chopped the article into chunks, rearranged the chunks, and glued it on the board, and had that printed. It messed up the story, kissed the tail of the shop who gave me little to nothing, and all because this shop had an ad with us, and the nicer shop, which really had much more to offer in every way, did not have an ad.
So beyond my time and effort, the merits or detriments of the people, businesses, and, one presumes, anything else written about and investigated, researched, or interviewed, beyond truth simple or complex,
THIS is what will happen at some arbitrary time to whatever I spend my life reporting, no matter how trivial or epic it may be?
I had begun to work in visual art at the time, and I ended up leaving in disgust and going to a place and a field where no words are available to be altered.
Think it's a pointless story? Wait, there's more.
I wouldn't waste your time, believe me.
That was my little career in journalism, how it began, how it seemed to naturally lead to something greater, a great American success story about truth that people need, and one woman who was bent on seeking it, and possessed at least some of the skills to go after it, how it ended. More of a refusal than a war, really. But the war in my heart went on longer than I realized.
Years later, after 9/11, I met a reporter for that original county paper I started off at. He had begun shortly after me, in a similar position, assistant to someone, and had become a reporter for them. I told him my story, feeling funny, like a high school athlete recalling glory days that seem small and childish next to a real writer. I had often thought I should have been tougher, but I was pretty tough already and it didn't work that way. I second-guessed, probably because it was my thing, one thing I could do well, and I felt pushed out, and unable to honorably participate. This other writer told me the truth, and made me have peace forever about my choice to leave journalism. He said he wished he had never started at journalism at all now, and that I was right to leave when I did.
He said that he and his editor were present at a post 9/11 press conference at a local military base. The reporters were told that people must be convinced to spy on their neighbors, especially anyone Middle-Eastern. They were told that this was the approach, but that the media was not to actually let it come across the way it really was. The point was that racial profiling was a crucial component of busting future terrorists and it needed to be promulgated without sounding racist or actually being able to be challenged in court. The papers were to do this somehow. Other information was given, but this guy's editor told him ON THE SPOT what would and would not be included in the paper. The information was given, but the paper refused to print it. This editor decided what the whole county would be told about their local authorities and the official approach to future terrorism prevention.
Feel sick yet? Mission accomplished. Sorry.
I once lamented my lost career, but knew there could be no other way back then. One day, if I merited it, I would be given an opportunity to say something that people needed to hear, and would choose a method that no editor could override. I am a responsible journalist, a caring editor myself, and an honest, unafraid human being. Things would balance out if that is what should happen.
Personal outcome is that I became an artist (very happily), I can still write, but only on my own terms, and that I struggle to tell my reporter mind to be still and let others handle it. As a result, I did not have to take part in the deceptions of the mass media, the whole reason I got out in the first place. My instincts were correct, and I am glad I don't have blood on my hands or bribe money in my pocket, or a foreclosure because I lost my job on principle.
America has many lost talents like me, people who belong to this nation, whose lives are lives offered in service. Perhaps by realizing that ATS is ours and doing the very best we possibly can to reduce division by increasing respect, correcting in a decent and humane way, and seeking answers that embrace the common good, we can allow the latent talents among us to add what is missing to American and all politics: human voices.
Many of us are tired, disillusioned, and cynical. But we are not the machine. We can revive, and ATS is a rare opportunity to bypass the forces that manipulate and keep us apart, politics, press, and all the ideologies that spring up from there.
As far as other citizens, wow. Please understand, fellow Americans, our corporations do things overseas, in front of other people, that we have no way to know about. Some of these things are the very things we are all concerned about in America, private security forces, "hired police" to force locals into compliance of whatever kind with the corporate presence in their country. Other citizens are witnesses of this, and understand more about our reputation in the world than we do from inside our "free" country.
The DOJ job was editing and rewriting counterterrorism training manuals the summer before 9/11.
Just gets deeper, huh? Politics is the only common ground or potential power base that we have left, and it is immensely powerful only if we can somehow vote as a group, which requires a grassroots candidate of our own. This will give a bloc vote which will be unstoppable. Block voting gets results. Moving as a group on anything will get results.
If ATS users boycott ONE thing for ONE week, would there be a impact?
Want to find out?
[edit on 2-3-2010 by Copperflower]
[edit on 2-3-2010 by Copperflower]
After the alteration of the article on rule-breaking during rush week, I felt insecure in what I was doing and what the point would be if ANYONE could do this. How to explain to the public? How to print a retraction for an article I wrote and someone else altered? As I pointed out above, and as a former editor, even for the DOJ later on, I know, and we all know the difference between editing to fit space, and altering to change meaning and consequence.
I gritted my teeth and kept on. The bike issue happened, and the newly-promoted editor altered it to put the uncooperative bike shop in the lead of the story. Does this make sense? She basically chopped the article into chunks, rearranged the chunks, and glued it on the board, and had that printed. It messed up the story, kissed the tail of the shop who gave me little to nothing, and all because this shop had an ad with us, and the nicer shop, which really had much more to offer in every way, did not have an ad.
So beyond my time and effort, the merits or detriments of the people, businesses, and, one presumes, anything else written about and investigated, researched, or interviewed, beyond truth simple or complex,
THIS is what will happen at some arbitrary time to whatever I spend my life reporting, no matter how trivial or epic it may be?
I had begun to work in visual art at the time, and I ended up leaving in disgust and going to a place and a field where no words are available to be altered.
Think it's a pointless story? Wait, there's more.
I wouldn't waste your time, believe me.
That was my little career in journalism, how it began, how it seemed to naturally lead to something greater, a great American success story about truth that people need, and one woman who was bent on seeking it, and possessed at least some of the skills to go after it, how it ended. More of a refusal than a war, really. But the war in my heart went on longer than I realized.
Years later, after 9/11, I met a reporter for that original county paper I started off at. He had begun shortly after me, in a similar position, assistant to someone, and had become a reporter for them. I told him my story, feeling funny, like a high school athlete recalling glory days that seem small and childish next to a real writer. I had often thought I should have been tougher, but I was pretty tough already and it didn't work that way. I second-guessed, probably because it was my thing, one thing I could do well, and I felt pushed out, and unable to honorably participate. This other writer told me the truth, and made me have peace forever about my choice to leave journalism. He said he wished he had never started at journalism at all now, and that I was right to leave when I did.
He said that he and his editor were present at a post 9/11 press conference at a local military base. The reporters were told that people must be convinced to spy on their neighbors, especially anyone Middle-Eastern. They were told that this was the approach, but that the media was not to actually let it come across the way it really was. The point was that racial profiling was a crucial component of busting future terrorists and it needed to be promulgated without sounding racist or actually being able to be challenged in court. The papers were to do this somehow. Other information was given, but this guy's editor told him ON THE SPOT what would and would not be included in the paper. The information was given, but the paper refused to print it. This editor decided what the whole county would be told about their local authorities and the official approach to future terrorism prevention.
Feel sick yet? Mission accomplished. Sorry.
I once lamented my lost career, but knew there could be no other way back then. One day, if I merited it, I would be given an opportunity to say something that people needed to hear, and would choose a method that no editor could override. I am a responsible journalist, a caring editor myself, and an honest, unafraid human being. Things would balance out if that is what should happen.
Personal outcome is that I became an artist (very happily), I can still write, but only on my own terms, and that I struggle to tell my reporter mind to be still and let others handle it. As a result, I did not have to take part in the deceptions of the mass media, the whole reason I got out in the first place. My instincts were correct, and I am glad I don't have blood on my hands or bribe money in my pocket, or a foreclosure because I lost my job on principle.
America has many lost talents like me, people who belong to this nation, whose lives are lives offered in service. Perhaps by realizing that ATS is ours and doing the very best we possibly can to reduce division by increasing respect, correcting in a decent and humane way, and seeking answers that embrace the common good, we can allow the latent talents among us to add what is missing to American and all politics: human voices.
Many of us are tired, disillusioned, and cynical. But we are not the machine. We can revive, and ATS is a rare opportunity to bypass the forces that manipulate and keep us apart, politics, press, and all the ideologies that spring up from there.
As far as other citizens, wow. Please understand, fellow Americans, our corporations do things overseas, in front of other people, that we have no way to know about. Some of these things are the very things we are all concerned about in America, private security forces, "hired police" to force locals into compliance of whatever kind with the corporate presence in their country. Other citizens are witnesses of this, and understand more about our reputation in the world than we do from inside our "free" country.
The DOJ job was editing and rewriting counterterrorism training manuals the summer before 9/11.
Just gets deeper, huh? Politics is the only common ground or potential power base that we have left, and it is immensely powerful only if we can somehow vote as a group, which requires a grassroots candidate of our own. This will give a bloc vote which will be unstoppable. Block voting gets results. Moving as a group on anything will get results.
If ATS users boycott ONE thing for ONE week, would there be a impact?
Want to find out?
[edit on 2-3-2010 by Copperflower]
[edit on 2-3-2010 by Copperflower]
reply to post by gimme_some_truth
The fact I’m receiving so much resistance proves to me that I’m absolutely correct and that many are going through great lengths to silence the truth.
No, you’re mod first. Member only when it is convenient for you.
This is complete foolishness on your part. Yes, I’m saying both of his threads were inspired by me and I’m not going to chalk it to timing or coincidence. Too many things are similar and the timing of all of this is too close. You can say I’m a troll, but did you forget that I held back on actually posting the thread and sent it to you guys for review? Did you miss the fact that I said I didn’t want the thread to disrupt the site and had everyone’s interest in mind? See, you aren’t telling the people that are you Mr. “I’m a Member first Mod second.” See the irony in that? I bet you do.
You included.
Yes you guys do have a hair trigger reaction when it comes to posters you don’t like, and views you don’t agree with.Do you think I’m the only one who said you guys were bias? There were at least ten other people in that thread saying the same thing as myself, yet you’re singling me out. Thanks, because you’re proving my point! Those who are outspoken are ostracized by staff and other members, while those who brown nose or make the most audacious posts are S&F’d.
See the bold text above. More reading. Less butchering/typing. And did you miss the part where I said those who disagree, say something that mods misinterpret or encounter mods with bias are banned or docked -1,000 ATS points? I’m giving SkepticOverlord credit, because he is at least interacting, and in some places, the owners don’t participate. However, I’m not giving YOU props of any sorts.
I caught your attention I must be doing something right.
You read the thread. Instead of relying on the most absurd fallacies and a brutal dismemberment of my posts, why don’t you go back and R-E-A-D the thread as I made in obvious and openly stated it at least five times.
How is everyone perceiving me as hostile? People agreed with me in that thread and openly said so. People agree with me in this thread and have gave me stars or implied the same concepts I stated in the other thread. Why are you exaggerating? And if everyone did perceive me as hostile, it would be because they’re hooked and have blinders on. In other words, they are sycophants who think they’ll somehow receive preferential treatment by disagreeing with me and agreeing with you (and ATS staff.)
Refer to the other thread. I stated the solution at least five times. Stop being a selective reader.
Here is where you will continue to fall short. I’m making the change. I’m starting to ignore the mods, will not rely on them for anything (when it comes to this site) and will say exactly what I want, and feel, and will do it within the confines of the ATS T&C. Now as far as what you noticed, do you think I care about other people being turned off by me? I don’t. People can be turned off all they want, they were turned of by Jesus, MLK. Jr, Ghandi, etc. Nothing in this world is 100% accepted and everything under the sun has experience some rejection. So for those members who are turned off, they can kick rocks. I didn’t need them anyway, they don’t need me, the feelings are mutual.
I’ve made it perfectly clear at least five times. If I tell you mod bias is a major problem, mod interpretation is a major problem, no general definition/clearly defined terms is a problem, forum gangs are a problem, and tell you that you need to start with your own staff and then work your way down because you only have 60 or so people on your staff (which doesn’t even make up 10% of the website) why would you not comprehend the problem? If I give you clear cut examples, and link you to those examples, why would you not understand? Simple. You don’t.
Stay modding. You are more effective at removing posts, because when it comes to making them, you completely butcher everything, use an insane amount of bottle spinning and totally disregard the issues.
ATS is based on the views of SO and whoever else has a financial stake in the website/LLC. That is rather simple to understand. Other members have said it, I’ve said, we don’t need to go into it any further.
That piece is filled with so much drivel that I won’t even respond.
That is exactly what I feel happened. I have no problem with him doing it, but I do have a problem with contorting the premise and using it to pimp the users for more site hits. Again, if you need donations say so, if you want members to promote the site say so. I’m sure many of us would step up to the plate.
You could have fooled me.
Did you see when I had to place several people on ignore? I’ve openly said I would place you mods and admins on ignore, but in that thread I had to ignore people who were completely over the top. You can disagree with me all you want, that is fine, as I don’t want to be surrounded by “yes men.” However, when I feel as though you are trying to spite me, or back me into a corner, I’ll take the gloves off. The problem with this is you guys are probably not used to members being as outspoken as myself, so people like myself are easily targeted.
This is why you should have your posting privileges revoked. Did you see the part the member was making about the drug forum?
More drivel. Some user makes it seem as members can talk about everything under the sun, yet he complains about not being able to discuss certain things in the drug forum without the threads being locked and deleted. When I point out that we don’t have freedom of speech and are bound by the T&C you come along and make me out to be the bad guy. How does that work?
Yes his intentions are perfectly clear: “Go out and make ATS the next best thing! Your efforts may not net you anything but at least you’ll be noticed.” That is what he’s saying and what you and others don’t like me saying.
I am a smart person, and smart people usually know when to hold their peace. I’ve held back for a while but now I’m speaking out. You guys can black ball me, make me out to be the bad sheep, etc, but it doesn’t matter--I’m calling it down the middle. You can disagree, you can flag the post, you can do whatever you want, it won’t stop me from speaking the truth and calling it how I see it.
You’re welcome.
You just performed the internets greatest hack & chop job, yet you’re telling me to be grown up about it and you aren’t bias? Corruption at its finest and you know it. People are going to follow in your food steps and pretty soon we’ll have more and more posts of people butchering my words and attributing words and ideas to myself that I’ve never stated or implied. It’s already happened but I’ll attribute the increase to you.
ROFL! I’m not laughing because you volunteer your time. I’m laughing because you think that volunteering and nothing to gain makes you exempt from corruption. Yes, I’ve volunteered before, and no I don’t care if you’re a volunteer. You, like everyone else on this site, should be open to constructive criticism, yet when someone is outspoken, going against the grain and not looking to make friends or garner favors, but looking to simply learn or call things for what they are, guess what happens? TROLL ALERT!
And yes you’re a hypocrite.
The fact I’m receiving so much resistance proves to me that I’m absolutely correct and that many are going through great lengths to silence the truth.
OK first I am posting as a member... NOT a mod... After all, mods are members first and mods last...
No, you’re mod first. Member only when it is convenient for you.
I have seen you imply several times in Bill's last two threads that they were in some shape, inspired by you....Don't deny that....Do you realize the irony in making such a claim? Do you realize what it indicates about you when you are saying that two threads about stopping trolling are inspired by you? Do you realize that you keep implying that you are a troll? I am guessing not...
This is complete foolishness on your part. Yes, I’m saying both of his threads were inspired by me and I’m not going to chalk it to timing or coincidence. Too many things are similar and the timing of all of this is too close. You can say I’m a troll, but did you forget that I held back on actually posting the thread and sent it to you guys for review? Did you miss the fact that I said I didn’t want the thread to disrupt the site and had everyone’s interest in mind? See, you aren’t telling the people that are you Mr. “I’m a Member first Mod second.” See the irony in that? I bet you do.
I couldn't agree with you more on that one... Some people, huh?
You included.
Really? Hair trigger reactions? It is funny... Painstakingly figuring out the problems with trolling and how to fix it, rather than just swing the ban hammer as so many other websites do, is hair trigger? And all this time I thought a hair trigger reaction was the same thing as a knee jerk reaction... Apparently it is just the opposite though... Thanks for that education.
Yes you guys do have a hair trigger reaction when it comes to posters you don’t like, and views you don’t agree with.Do you think I’m the only one who said you guys were bias? There were at least ten other people in that thread saying the same thing as myself, yet you’re singling me out. Thanks, because you’re proving my point! Those who are outspoken are ostracized by staff and other members, while those who brown nose or make the most audacious posts are S&F’d.
Wait a minute... What happened to that hair trigger response you were just telling me about? I guess it is gone now? Interesting.
See the bold text above. More reading. Less butchering/typing. And did you miss the part where I said those who disagree, say something that mods misinterpret or encounter mods with bias are banned or docked -1,000 ATS points? I’m giving SkepticOverlord credit, because he is at least interacting, and in some places, the owners don’t participate. However, I’m not giving YOU props of any sorts.
I agree... Care to lead by example as so many are doing? Or would you just like to continue as you are? No skin off of my back either way.
I caught your attention I must be doing something right.
Hmm, everybody must have missed that... What is your solution again?
You read the thread. Instead of relying on the most absurd fallacies and a brutal dismemberment of my posts, why don’t you go back and R-E-A-D the thread as I made in obvious and openly stated it at least five times.
There is a reason why everyone is perceiving your posts as hostile... What do you think that could be?
How is everyone perceiving me as hostile? People agreed with me in that thread and openly said so. People agree with me in this thread and have gave me stars or implied the same concepts I stated in the other thread. Why are you exaggerating? And if everyone did perceive me as hostile, it would be because they’re hooked and have blinders on. In other words, they are sycophants who think they’ll somehow receive preferential treatment by disagreeing with me and agreeing with you (and ATS staff.)
As for that constructive criticism, see above where I ask you to go ahead and state your solution....
Refer to the other thread. I stated the solution at least five times. Stop being a selective reader.
So make it about you and lead by example.. Be the change you wish to see... If you keep on this path... Well... you will make no changes... In fact I have noticed that more and more people are getting turned off by you.
Here is where you will continue to fall short. I’m making the change. I’m starting to ignore the mods, will not rely on them for anything (when it comes to this site) and will say exactly what I want, and feel, and will do it within the confines of the ATS T&C. Now as far as what you noticed, do you think I care about other people being turned off by me? I don’t. People can be turned off all they want, they were turned of by Jesus, MLK. Jr, Ghandi, etc. Nothing in this world is 100% accepted and everything under the sun has experience some rejection. So for those members who are turned off, they can kick rocks. I didn’t need them anyway, they don’t need me, the feelings are mutual.
You don't seem capable of making up your mind... Is the problem with the mods, the owners, the membership as a whole... Or what? You keep changing your mind... Let me know when you figure it out... And please, let us know when you get that solution too... Of course, I guess you will have to figure out the problem first.
I’ve made it perfectly clear at least five times. If I tell you mod bias is a major problem, mod interpretation is a major problem, no general definition/clearly defined terms is a problem, forum gangs are a problem, and tell you that you need to start with your own staff and then work your way down because you only have 60 or so people on your staff (which doesn’t even make up 10% of the website) why would you not comprehend the problem? If I give you clear cut examples, and link you to those examples, why would you not understand? Simple. You don’t.
Stay modding. You are more effective at removing posts, because when it comes to making them, you completely butcher everything, use an insane amount of bottle spinning and totally disregard the issues.
It is not even POSSIBLE for ATS to be based on just one persons view point.. The members come from all around the world and each have very different backgrounds, thoughts and opinions... The line is drawn here Terms & Conditions Of Use, If you break those rules than you have crossed the line... It is a rather simple thing to understand...
ATS is based on the views of SO and whoever else has a financial stake in the website/LLC. That is rather simple to understand. Other members have said it, I’ve said, we don’t need to go into it any further.
Perhaps when you are seeing a dog, but everyone else sees a cat, it is not everybody else who are seeing things incorrectly..... No... that would make far to much sense... Silly me.
That piece is filled with so much drivel that I won’t even respond.
Wow, again with that? Really? You think far to much of yourself... Come back down to earth...
That is exactly what I feel happened. I have no problem with him doing it, but I do have a problem with contorting the premise and using it to pimp the users for more site hits. Again, if you need donations say so, if you want members to promote the site say so. I’m sure many of us would step up to the plate.
Yeah....... Me to.....
You could have fooled me.
Disagreeing is NOT attacking.. Even you have implied that, so I wonder why the change of heart when the one being disagreed with... Is YOU...?
Did you see when I had to place several people on ignore? I’ve openly said I would place you mods and admins on ignore, but in that thread I had to ignore people who were completely over the top. You can disagree with me all you want, that is fine, as I don’t want to be surrounded by “yes men.” However, when I feel as though you are trying to spite me, or back me into a corner, I’ll take the gloves off. The problem with this is you guys are probably not used to members being as outspoken as myself, so people like myself are easily targeted.
We still do......
This is why you should have your posting privileges revoked. Did you see the part the member was making about the drug forum?
Yeah, that's the internet for you... Interesting how the constitution stops at America Online huh? That is why private sites have private rules... I am surprised you do not know that about the internet... Yeah... The constitution does not apply to the internet...
More drivel. Some user makes it seem as members can talk about everything under the sun, yet he complains about not being able to discuss certain things in the drug forum without the threads being locked and deleted. When I point out that we don’t have freedom of speech and are bound by the T&C you come along and make me out to be the bad guy. How does that work?
And that is exactly what he has done... Whether you want his intentions to be something else or not... He has stated his intentions perfectly clear.... Just because you think he has different intentions, does not make it so... Sorry... You are really not that powerful...
Yes his intentions are perfectly clear: “Go out and make ATS the next best thing! Your efforts may not net you anything but at least you’ll be noticed.” That is what he’s saying and what you and others don’t like me saying.
Disagreeing is not shunning... You seem like a smart person... I am surprised you don't know that...
I am a smart person, and smart people usually know when to hold their peace. I’ve held back for a while but now I’m speaking out. You guys can black ball me, make me out to be the bad sheep, etc, but it doesn’t matter--I’m calling it down the middle. You can disagree, you can flag the post, you can do whatever you want, it won’t stop me from speaking the truth and calling it how I see it.
OK,thanks for giving me permission.
You’re welcome.
Now, you and I have never even talked before.. This is the first time I have ever replied to you at all... I am sure you will disagree with everything I say. But be a grown up about it... I am not bias, I am not abusing my powers and their is no corruption even though you think there is...
You just performed the internets greatest hack & chop job, yet you’re telling me to be grown up about it and you aren’t bias? Corruption at its finest and you know it. People are going to follow in your food steps and pretty soon we’ll have more and more posts of people butchering my words and attributing words and ideas to myself that I’ve never stated or implied. It’s already happened but I’ll attribute the increase to you.
Each and every staff member, is just an ordinary human being.. We each VOLUNTEER our time. We each have families of our own, and jobs, and lives to live... trust me when I say there is NOTHING to gain from attempting to corrupt the system.. Nothing! We are simply volunteers. have you ever volunteered before?
ROFL! I’m not laughing because you volunteer your time. I’m laughing because you think that volunteering and nothing to gain makes you exempt from corruption. Yes, I’ve volunteered before, and no I don’t care if you’re a volunteer. You, like everyone else on this site, should be open to constructive criticism, yet when someone is outspoken, going against the grain and not looking to make friends or garner favors, but looking to simply learn or call things for what they are, guess what happens? TROLL ALERT!
And yes you’re a hypocrite.
reply to post by Copperflower
I'm willing to give it a shot...but TPTB have already won so what difference does it make?
If ATS users boycott ONE thing for ONE week, would there be a impact?
I'm willing to give it a shot...but TPTB have already won so what difference does it make?
Originally posted by EMPIRE
reply to post by haterproof
I sent them the rough draft for the proposed thread, got a couple of replies, and was told that everyone had saw it. Shortly after, maybe five days, SO makes his great troll thread. Now, after that thread, I see this thread. Again, some of the same concepts that I presented are in each of his threads, and coupled with the timing, it's hard for me to chalk it to coincidence.
Empire you and others are really getting people off topic with your accusations and responses to your accusations. This is a public forum and anything you post here isn't copyright so please get over it. Write a book if you feel that strongly.
Either agree with SO or don't and don’t have a temper tantrum if someone disagrees with you. From what I can see SO hasn’t freaked when you have disagreed with him so far.
So who has more ideas about managing civil discourse for political discussions?
I've noticed that students of alternative politics tend not to pay much attention to the influence of secret societies on politics and vice versa.
It will be difficult to determine why any politician will decide on a course of action if there is a lack of understanding by a citizen of how a politician is influenced in his decision by such things as numerology, rituals or quid pro quo cronyism within the secret group of which that politician may belong.
If indeed secret societies are as pervasive within the ruling elite of business and politics as I'm beginning to suspect, then how effective can ordinary political activism be at influencing the course of politics that affects the rest of society? Are the electoral machinations and public hearings held around the country merely a pageantry designed to create an illusion of citizen influence over the political process?
I really don't know the answers to the questions I've posed above. And maybe I've overestimated the influence of secret societies. Perhaps by some strange coincidence, a hugely disproportionate amount of the global elite really are fans of the Texas Longhorns football team and that's why so many of them are flashing that hook 'em horns hand salute. And maybe a lot of our politicians just have never figured out how to shake hands properly and that's why we see those funny hand shake's between them. Who knows?
It will be difficult to determine why any politician will decide on a course of action if there is a lack of understanding by a citizen of how a politician is influenced in his decision by such things as numerology, rituals or quid pro quo cronyism within the secret group of which that politician may belong.
If indeed secret societies are as pervasive within the ruling elite of business and politics as I'm beginning to suspect, then how effective can ordinary political activism be at influencing the course of politics that affects the rest of society? Are the electoral machinations and public hearings held around the country merely a pageantry designed to create an illusion of citizen influence over the political process?
I really don't know the answers to the questions I've posed above. And maybe I've overestimated the influence of secret societies. Perhaps by some strange coincidence, a hugely disproportionate amount of the global elite really are fans of the Texas Longhorns football team and that's why so many of them are flashing that hook 'em horns hand salute. And maybe a lot of our politicians just have never figured out how to shake hands properly and that's why we see those funny hand shake's between them. Who knows?
reply to post by ImaginaryReality1984
Seriously, are you tired or doing all of this on purpose? I, EMPIRE, never said I was not replying to you. What I said is I was not talking A-B-O-U-T you. Do you understand the difference? Here, let me show you again, Mr. “I’m so confused” and make sure you heed the bold:
Here is another one:
Again, nowhere did I state I did not reply to you. I did reply to you. However, when I made that specific comment, I was talking about SO.
Now you just stuck your foot in your mouth. I just quoted myself saying I was not talking about you. Can you show me anywhere where I said I was not replying to you? Quote me, friend. Go through the posts, find me saying what you said I’ve said, what you’ve said I’m not conceding and post it. Guess what? YOU CANT! Why? BECAUSE I NEVER SAID WHAT YOU SAID I SAID!
I’m the only one who has pointed something out. Now why don’t you show everyone here what you said I said?
However i will state it again, as you seem unable to grasp the situation, and i will do so in bold.
Please, do not tell me about fallacies. First of all, there is more than one type of ad hominem, and I doubt very seriously that you can put together a compelling piece to prove your claim. What you can do, however, is make incredulous claims and get everyone on the “DIE EMPIRE!” campaign to star you. In fact, I’ll go ahead and star you just for the hell of it. But have it at buddy, let me see what you come with this time. You don’t get it do you? I’m not posting a damn thing, and if I do, it will be on my terms not yours. Forget it, pal. I don’t need you as some brother in arms or ally. You’ve already shown me where you stand, so save your patronizing for someone who is star happy and eager to get on the “DIE EMPIRE!” crusade. I got the U2U. I answered the call. I’m taking my gloves off because the staff have shown that they don’t care me, or others, and they keep on parroting the same thing “You’re hostile.” “If you don’t like it leave”, etc. Forget it.
I completely dismantled your lunacy, showed the board for what it was and told you to go to bed. I was attributing your madness to a lack of sleep and now you’re forced to acknowledge that I never said what you said I did. You’ll either do so openly or you’ll stop posting. Which will you do? Again, I quoted myself saying I was not talking about you, so do us a favor and show the board where I said I was not talking to you.
The ball is in your court, pal.
Who are you to judge someone’s worth? Ok, this is what I’ll do. You show me where I said I was not replying to you and I’ll leave the board. Fair enough? Find the statement and post it.
[edit on 2-3-2010 by EMPIRE]
I'm sorry i won't bother with your reply because i showed you clearly where you directly quoted me and replied and then in a subsequent reply said you were not replying to me.
Seriously, are you tired or doing all of this on purpose? I, EMPIRE, never said I was not replying to you. What I said is I was not talking A-B-O-U-T you. Do you understand the difference? Here, let me show you again, Mr. “I’m so confused” and make sure you heed the bold:
This isn’t trolling. I’m well within the confines of ATS T&C, and you simply don’t understand what was said. In fact, when I said, “Well say it.” I wasn’t even talking about you.
Here is another one:
I’m not talking about you. I made it very clear who the pimp was.
Again, nowhere did I state I did not reply to you. I did reply to you. However, when I made that specific comment, I was talking about SO.
The fact you cannot acknowledge this says a great deal about your willingness to concede a simple mistake (if it were a mistake, i am being generous). You then broke the confusion of your statement into multiple sentences in an attempt to subvert the original meaning. I would argue this was quote mining.
Now you just stuck your foot in your mouth. I just quoted myself saying I was not talking about you. Can you show me anywhere where I said I was not replying to you? Quote me, friend. Go through the posts, find me saying what you said I’ve said, what you’ve said I’m not conceding and post it. Guess what? YOU CANT! Why? BECAUSE I NEVER SAID WHAT YOU SAID I SAID!
The odd thing is that many people have now pointed out where you are wrong and only you seem unable to see it, which would suggest it is you who is in the wrong.
I’m the only one who has pointed something out. Now why don’t you show everyone here what you said I said?
However i will state it again, as you seem unable to grasp the situation, and i will do so in bold.
Please create a thread to make your points, make them without the ad hom attacks and message me the link, i will be happy to contribute as i am sure many others will. Indeed we may agree on many issues.
Please, do not tell me about fallacies. First of all, there is more than one type of ad hominem, and I doubt very seriously that you can put together a compelling piece to prove your claim. What you can do, however, is make incredulous claims and get everyone on the “DIE EMPIRE!” campaign to star you. In fact, I’ll go ahead and star you just for the hell of it. But have it at buddy, let me see what you come with this time. You don’t get it do you? I’m not posting a damn thing, and if I do, it will be on my terms not yours. Forget it, pal. I don’t need you as some brother in arms or ally. You’ve already shown me where you stand, so save your patronizing for someone who is star happy and eager to get on the “DIE EMPIRE!” crusade. I got the U2U. I answered the call. I’m taking my gloves off because the staff have shown that they don’t care me, or others, and they keep on parroting the same thing “You’re hostile.” “If you don’t like it leave”, etc. Forget it.
As for telling me to go to bed, well sir you are once again using ad hom attacks and you need to stop it, because all it does is damage your position.
I completely dismantled your lunacy, showed the board for what it was and told you to go to bed. I was attributing your madness to a lack of sleep and now you’re forced to acknowledge that I never said what you said I did. You’ll either do so openly or you’ll stop posting. Which will you do? Again, I quoted myself saying I was not talking about you, so do us a favor and show the board where I said I was not talking to you.
The ball is in your court, pal.
So will you continue to argue on this thread or will you have the steel to actually create a new thread, with all of your arguments layed out clearly so that people may debate them? If you cannot do this then please go elsewhere as you are not worthy of this website.
Who are you to judge someone’s worth? Ok, this is what I’ll do. You show me where I said I was not replying to you and I’ll leave the board. Fair enough? Find the statement and post it.
[edit on 2-3-2010 by EMPIRE]
reply to post by SkepticOverlord
Look here is a shocker providing the members stay within the T&C just leave us alone . You removed the separate AP Board and the Conspiracy Master forums which contained high quality political discussions . If you don't like that all you are left is the lower quality topics stop complaining its not like any of it is my doing .
Look here is a shocker providing the members stay within the T&C just leave us alone . You removed the separate AP Board and the Conspiracy Master forums which contained high quality political discussions . If you don't like that all you are left is the lower quality topics stop complaining its not like any of it is my doing .
SkepticOverlord,
Nice site; doing good here.
ThankYou.
I could make a good argument as to how politics is irrelevant now.
I could make a good argument as to how we should be focused on politics now.
It's easy to place my posts in the politics category. It's easy to place my posts in any category, actually. - I do so with the assumption (half-way) that you are not owned by some of the people I used to work for.
You own the largest conspiracy site on the net. If you were an operative of some alphabet-soup agency; would this not be where you would send your people?
I am not blind. - Do not ask me to be dumb.
Perhaps this has already been dealt with in another thread (I haven't checked).
Personally, my only interest in politics is trying to wake people up to how the world really is. - To result to character assassination is beneath me.
Whatever the motivation, I thank you for making this forum possible, and I am glad to be here.
Nice site; doing good here.
ThankYou.
I could make a good argument as to how politics is irrelevant now.
I could make a good argument as to how we should be focused on politics now.
It's easy to place my posts in the politics category. It's easy to place my posts in any category, actually. - I do so with the assumption (half-way) that you are not owned by some of the people I used to work for.
You own the largest conspiracy site on the net. If you were an operative of some alphabet-soup agency; would this not be where you would send your people?
I am not blind. - Do not ask me to be dumb.
Perhaps this has already been dealt with in another thread (I haven't checked).
Personally, my only interest in politics is trying to wake people up to how the world really is. - To result to character assassination is beneath me.
Whatever the motivation, I thank you for making this forum possible, and I am glad to be here.
reply to post by davec0021
It was posted via U2U, and it is on topic as I feel my message was butchered so SO and ATS can rake in the bucks. Again, I have no problem with SO doing it, if that were the case, but I do have a problem with hiding his intentions which I believe he is doing. Why is it that none of you are paying much attention to the second post I made which clearly states how I feel about the situation?
You people can disagree all you want. You are entitled to disagree. What I have a problem with is when people misconstrue what has been plainly stated, attribute words to me that I never said, and accuse me of throwing a temper tantrum. Again, it isn’t about the thread I sent via U2U, this is about SO, and ATS using the members as a vehicle to springboard a campaign that will place ATS in a different lime light. Do you understand now?
I do. Before people partake in political discussions they should read before they reply.
[edit on 2-3-2010 by EMPIRE]
Empire you and others are really getting people off topic with your accusations and responses to your accusations. This is a public forum and anything you post here isn't copyright so please get over it. Write a book if you feel that strongly.
It was posted via U2U, and it is on topic as I feel my message was butchered so SO and ATS can rake in the bucks. Again, I have no problem with SO doing it, if that were the case, but I do have a problem with hiding his intentions which I believe he is doing. Why is it that none of you are paying much attention to the second post I made which clearly states how I feel about the situation?
Either agree with SO or don't and don’t have a temper tantrum if someone disagrees with you. From what I can see SO hasn’t freaked when you have disagreed with him so far.
You people can disagree all you want. You are entitled to disagree. What I have a problem with is when people misconstrue what has been plainly stated, attribute words to me that I never said, and accuse me of throwing a temper tantrum. Again, it isn’t about the thread I sent via U2U, this is about SO, and ATS using the members as a vehicle to springboard a campaign that will place ATS in a different lime light. Do you understand now?
So who has more ideas about managing civil discourse for political discussions?
I do. Before people partake in political discussions they should read before they reply.
[edit on 2-3-2010 by EMPIRE]
reply to post by davec0021
So now I'm preventing you from posting? I'm replying to people who initially quoted me. Did you get that memo?
So now I'm preventing you from posting? I'm replying to people who initially quoted me. Did you get that memo?
Originally posted by endisnighe
Dem=Repub as Bush=Obama as Tyranny=Tyranny
exactly...so just how much discussing of politics is really necessary?
I've always thought the comparison between politics and wrestling was incredibly apt....
all the talk didn't stop bush or obama doing whatever they wanted, neither is any of the talk at the moment doing anything to stop kevin rudd from creating a new china out of australia...
so then how does this constant 'talk' justify the comments of it being of the utmost importance? politics goes round and round in circles by its nature, why expect the conversations here to progress any differently?
respectfully,
-B.M
P.S) these queries are for SO, not the person I quoted.
[edit on 2/3/10 by B.Morrison]
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