We, ATS Members, Must Focus On Politics

Originally posted by m khan
Wonder what it would take to get the war ended. That's political. Someone should make it a thread. Someone should make it a thread every week until it happens. We want what is good for our country. This war is bad on several fronts and not good on any. I know we are not supposed to advocate anything on ATS, but this needs advocating before it's too late.

Perhaps a thread that explores solutions to the problems in Iraq, so we can responsibly leave?

Things that could identify and begin to meet the needs of this particular country, I mean, taking into account the social structure they want and need, and the infrastructure to use their resources to attain and maintain this society in this way.
Let's begin the search for solutions, friend. That is a function of politics, as well, and completely within our own power to explore. One never knows.

Some brilliant young person, a future Nobel prize winner perhaps, is possibly reading threads on this site, and will be influenced by something read here. It's worth giving ourselves as a body a chance to reach for the best we want in this world, and hope to attain at least a percentage of it over time, with direction and purpose.

It is this, IMO, which we must agree on. Some basic basics.

Ok, does any one else feel like were just pissing in the wind? It seems to me anyways that the more we try and talk about this the more we spiral downward into a pit of oblivion that we may not be able to crawl out of.

All SO was asking, at least in my opinion is that we should take the political aspect of ATS more seriously, try to look past party lines and learn and be willing to possibly change our opinions if a valid argument is presented to you. To be passonit and smart about our post, to know that name calling and personal attacks on other members does nothing for the ATS community, in reality it makes you look like a Jack capital A ##.

Finaly for those of you who have a problem with how ATS is run and moderated, you are not required to post here, or even to read any post here. ATS is a community but more than that it is a MODERATED community, the reason for the MODS is to attempt to keep things cival and flowing in a "problem" free way. Are the Mods 100% impartial no they are human just like you and me, they are subject to there own opinions just as we are, im sure that they do there best to keep there opinions out of there judgments, but honestly no one can do this 100% of the time no matter how hard they try.

I will finish this post with this, If you have a problem with how ATS is run, leave start your own board and run it how you wish see if you are able to start something as amazing as ATS is. Im just going to guess that even if you are willing to attempt this it will suffer from the same problems that ATS understandably does. Why? its simple nothing is perfect we can only attempt to make things better and strive for that goal, no matter how unatainable it is.


once again just my .02 cents and im not trying to speek for the the Mods or SO.

Thank you and good day/night depending on your location in this universe

"We are putting every single political hack who pollutes our site on notice"

If I was the administrator of this site, I wouldn't waste my time putting this toxic scum on notice; I'd boot their asses and aliases out of here WITHOUT NOTICE. A leopard never changes its spots.

"The parroting of the party line without substantive ISSUE oriented dialog and the childish name calling won't fly on ATS anymore."

There are at least half a dozen individuals on one part of this site who use the name calling strategy on a redundant basis. They offer nothing of substance to this site and only serve to pollute the environment and eventually drive quality posters away.

If the administration or moderators cannot see a clear collusive pattern with such posters, then I am afraid the site will only end up suffering in the long term (loss of ad revenue). The quality contributors will eventually end up being infuriated and driven away and you will be left with the garbage who contribute nothing more than juvenile wisecracks and moronic backslapping.

"If you're impulsively calling liberals communists or conservatives fascists (for example), you've fallen prey to the conditioning."

And hence, therein lies the problem. Unfortunately, most people do not realize they have been conditioned from Day One. Not only have these horses been lead to water, they drank it and have been permanently poisoned. Talking and reasoning with these people is no different than addressing a brick wall.

"I will finish this post with this, If you have a problem with how ATS is run"

Unfortunately for ATS, many of the people who have a problem are the quality posters ATS can least afford to lose. On the other hand, the deceptive and devious characters who instigate the problems love ATS because they are able to further their wretched agenda without the fear of being banned or censored. They're probably reading all these threats and having a good laugh.

When ATS does show signs of being proactive and starts taking out the garbage, I will be the first one to stand up and applaud. Until then, I prefer to sit on my hands and not hold my breath.

reply to post by Springer
First of all I would like to say that it is good to finally meet the owner of ATS! I say this because I can now ask you some questions and get the answers straight from the horse's mouth. I have been here roughly about a year, and after studying people's responses to not only threads I have started, but to those that others have started too, and this includes mods also, there is a definite behavoral pattern here.

There is not a one of us here at ats that has any info that is not news-based or is connected with a writer/journalist of some sort, and yet when and if somebody doesn't like the info, or it steps on their toes, the first response is usually a combative one. Why is that? Freemasonry and other cultic issues are the main subjects of fine critical issues that are the ones that bring on the shouting matches.

Then when one posts a conspiracy theory based thread, if someone doesn't like it, it's the same thing all over again, and more times than not, the thread op is always the one reprimanded. I know this from a few personal experiences already here at ats.

This is a conspiracy website isn't it? I mean, even if it has threads for politics, religion, cults, science, etc, in the end of the grand scheme of things, all these subjects are relevant to the same politico/conspiratorial design aren't they?

How can we discuss politics when lobbyists and big corporations have our politicians in their pockets? And it's those same people who are owned and controlled by the global elitists that are trying to enslave us all!

Politics, religion, big business, economical issues, and human behavior are all intertwined into our every day lives. One cannot exist without the other, and there can never be any lines drawn that seperates any of them as to single out any given subject matter.

So tell me, what is ATS here for? Is it merely a place for venting? is it a place for serious discussions of subject matters that will make a difference for us and our global neighbors in the end of things? Will ATS ever make a stand and actually battle the global elite?

I mean, I can't see singling out politics and disregarding everything else when it all is really one and the same, can you? Here's a great case and point.

I have been following AL Franken for several years now, and every interview he gave, all he would talk about basically is what he would do if he were ever in the position to actually do anything to help america and the world! Now that he is a senator, he has done nothing but fall into place and follow his orders that his masters have given him like the good little elitist troop that he has become!

So please tell me, what is the mission for ATS, and how can we seriously contribute without all the rhetoric? There is a lot of intelligence at this website, and it is simply being wasted on nothing but argumentation and political incorrectiveness.
Thankyou for your time.........

An interesting post, I can see why you have so many stars here.

Politics to me is basically how a small number of people govern a group of much larger people. Ultimately, someone in the larger group becomes unhappy with some or all in the small group of leaders or ruler(s). This is the only truly common thread that I can find throughout the ages. People are pretty crappy at ruling or leading large groups of people, that is to say: politics. No one knows what is best for you, except you.

Government is simply an organization put together by the few who lead or rule the much larger group. It is destined to failures and mass unhappiness. Man is meant to live free. Government that governs least governs best.

Originally posted by SkepticOverlord
.............
Expose the corruption inherent in both "sides" of the artificial two-party system.

Yes, it is true that unfortunately there is corruption in "both sides" of the political parties in the U.S. But what exactly does that mean? Does it mean that "Republicanism", or I should say true Republicanism is not the awnser to the U.S.? Look then at Canada's leftist party that is in control and you can see as much, if not more corruption as you can find in the U.S.

Look at the power structure of most countries now-a-days. Most of them, if not all, are corrupted.

Anyway, not too long ago the website wasn't concentrating on politics, I have to wonder why the sudden change in mind.

What was again the original purpose for making this forum?

Originally posted by SkepticOverlord
............
Look past the political rhetoric and highly-paid media firebrands to examine the essence of the real issues.

There is that, but I wonder why is it that you are asking for members who are from all countries in the world to discuss, and make a priority of U.S. politics.

Originally posted by SkepticOverlord
Hold all politicians accountable for their words, their actions, and their financial influences.

Now that is true. Not only are politicians to be held accountable for their words, and actions, but also everyone who has any kind of power.

Originally posted by SkepticOverlord
Apply the unique and collaborative critical thinking of conspiracy speculation on ATS to the malfeasance that has held sway in Washington, DC for decades -- and seems to have been peaking over the past twelve years.

There is a lot of truth to what you are saying, but i wonder why you want to make "American politics" a priority to a website where there are members from all over the world. I could be wrong, but I would think that at least half of the members of ATS are no American, and should never really have any sort of power over U.S. politics.

There is also the fact that the Socialist elites are the ones behind most of what is happening. From the corruption which has been plaguing the U.S., and which is also seen around the world, to the fact that these people, and groups are working for a common goal; globalization.

It is a known fact, or it should be anyway, that the Obama administration, and every candidate Obama has nominated to be part of his administration are proponents to give away U.S. sovereignty to the UN, and the Socialist global elite.

These people have been working hard, and they have accomplished the infiltration of U.S. politics, and the U.S. government.

Originally posted by SkepticOverlord
With four-million visits a month and eight-million posts, the ATS platform is a powerful one. Your efforts may not make a difference nationally and/or internationally, but you will be noticed.

Yes, there are a lot of members in the website, but again many, if not most of those members are not American, so I have to wonder why this sudden transition to make "U.S. politics' a priority when for many a year part of the motto of the website has been not to make politics, and much less U.S. politics a priority.



[edit on 3-3-2010 by ElectricUniverse]

reply to post by SkepticOverlord


Here, here overlord!
There's a realization that I came to between 2004-2008, following a string of personal tragedies that occured in rapid succession, that stuck with me and effectively changed my lifeline for the positive and that was:
"Through action or inaction, what happens to you is YOUR FAULT."

No longer paying attention to, or holding accountable, persons elected to act in the benefit of the masses who've elected them @ the local, county, state levels and beyond, is exactly why we as a nation, are where we are today.

And its our fault, we aren't the only citizens of a country guilty of this action of complacency or falling for distractions....the UK is not immune to this critism either, though I believe those citizens, though gunless(lol...not really funny), have a slightly tighter reign on your officials, through the massive protests and the like, I've witnessed when the people disagreed with certain policies. and correct me if I'm wrong, haven't you all had people removed from office?

If so, that shows your government is slightly wary about pissing you off, and citizens have a little more control, though y'all need to remove those damn cameras all over the place.

France, same thing I believe. Plus I'm slightly jealous of the fact that you 2 nations, plus canada/cuba have healthcare paid thru taxes, @ no additional cost, and you still function well as nations(cubas excluded in that last part, no disrespect). but that's another story....

The point I'm trying to make, is that the politics of my nation(USA) are to be for the benefit of the citizens of this nation, and if we are not checking our reps, plus what they do, especially when it comes to policies that inevitably affect us negatively, We are guilty. We are at fault. On one part we are accountable, and those Reps, for they've negated their duties, if swayed by nefarious means. We, citizens have a duty to ourselves, to make sure our elected officials are on point, they work for US, are PAID by the sweat of our work, and if they do behave in a way that puts citizens in harms way, whatever way that is, they aren't fit for duty, and gotta go.

In closing,
Feeling one way, that something isn't right, is amiss, is why ATS is so large, why it has members. But that's one thing.

Acting on what you know/learn, in concert with others who gain that insight as well, is what will make the difference between righting this ship, or potentially sinking into the abyss of a system too far gone to save.

I don't plan on drowning, if I can help it.

Oh...one more thing:

Political Subforums for all active nations on the site should be formed. Just to be fair for all members!

Just because people on ATS aren't ALL into politics, that doesn't mean they aren't in some other forum. I see what you are trying to do, I don't think it will work!

Originally posted by Diplomat
Some of the responses in this thread are downright shocking, especially coming from a place like ATS. It makes me feel like we are losing the battle overall, that the government's propaganda is working faster than our attempt at spreading the truth. Time is definitely not on our side, because as more time goes by more people seem to forget the truth about things and succumb to the propaganda and lies of the government and mainstream media. I seriously can't believe everyone is buying into the 2-party crap so much. I even have a friend who thinks we need to elect Mitt Romney of all people in the next election... it's just crazy to hear that. I bet he also thinks things would be somehow different right now had we elected John McCain last time around. This is real simple stuff in the conspiracy world... I thought it was common knowledge that they throw 2 puppets in our faces every 4 years who are basically on the same "team." The perfect example was John Kerry and George Bush, but I am afraid that most people around here now don't even know what I'm talking about.

A little ammo for your most correct post and maybe we can get some points by being political.

Clinton got elected on health care. Did we get it? crap no.
The Repubs got in on term limits and balanced budget. Who the hell is kidding who here?
They even started with a balance.
Obama promised transparency and an end to war. WTF. Oh and health care too. We'll see.
Good cop bad cop hell no. Bad cop bad cop.
The two party system works like this--- we slave they both party.

reply to post by Donny 4 million


What about the huge difference economic theory and policy between the two parties?

Democrats think the best way to fix and/or grow the economy is by taxing and spending, while Republicans say that tax cuts and smaller government will grow the economy.

Before you even say it - you can say all you want that Bush had huge deficits in his last term, but please recall that congress actually appropriates and spends the money, not the president. A congress controlled by democrats in Bush's last term.

Originally posted by ElectricUniverse
There is a lot of truth to what you are saying, but i wonder why you want to make "American politics" a priority to a website where there are members from all over the world.

The opening post was not intended to be a call-to-action for a focus on exclusively American politics... but to urge all who are concerned about conspiracies and related speculation, not to avoid political topics... in fact, to call for a new focus on politics.

While international politics are important, the uniquely American disease of intensely divided left/right hatred among the populace appears to be infecting other nations. Is it not important to examine the source of such problems?

Originally posted by centurion1211




Democrats think the best way to fix and/or grow the economy is by taxing and spending, while Republicans say that tax cuts and smaller government will grow the economy.

Anyone with any common sense has abandonded that Rushbo propaganda long ago.

My focus is to stay involved on a strictly local level where I can make a difference.

[edit on 3-3-2010 by whaaa]

Originally posted by centurion1211
What about the huge difference economic theory and policy between the two parties?

Can you point to a moment in history where the supposed economic tenants of a party's traditional actual doctrine (not the skewed assumptions of the "other side") have actually been employed by that party's chief executive?

Democrats think the best way to fix and/or grow the economy is by taxing and spending, while Republicans say that tax cuts and smaller government will grow the economy.

To me, that's a fine example of "parroting" the media firebrands.


[edit on 3-3-2010 by SkepticOverlord]

Originally posted by SkepticOverlord

Originally posted by centurion1211
What about the huge difference economic theory and policy between the two parties?

Can you point to a moment in history where the supposed economic tenants of a party's traditional actual doctrine (not the skewed assumptions of the "other side") have actually been employed by that party's chief executive?

Easily.

From the Joint Economic Committee of the U.S. House of Representatives regarding the Reagan tax cuts:

The criticism that the tax payments of the rich would fall under ERTA was based on a static conception of human behavior. As a 1982 JEC study pointed out,[1] similar across-the-board tax cuts had been implemented in the 1920s as the Mellon tax cuts, and in the 1960s as the Kennedy tax cuts. In both cases the reduction of high marginal tax rates actually increased tax payments by "the rich," also increasing their share of total individual income taxes paid. Unfortunately, estimates of ERTA by the Democrat-controlled CBO continued to show falling tax payment by upper income taxpayers, even after actual IRS data had become available showing a surge of income tax payments by affluent taxpayers.

Note that even Democrat John F. Kennedy understood the principle, while it also says the Democrat controlled Congressional Budget Office was caught trying to skew the numbers to report just the opposite.

article

[edit on 3/3/2010 by centurion1211]

Originally posted by whaaa

Originally posted by centurion1211




Democrats think the best way to fix and/or grow the economy is by taxing and spending, while Republicans say that tax cuts and smaller government will grow the economy.

Anyone with any common sense has abandonded that Rushbo propaganda long ago.

[edit on 3-3-2010 by whaaa]

Well, in answer to you and SO, apparently even the U.S. Congress thinks otherwise.

Read my post.

And BTW, the Joint Economic Committee is composed of members of both parties. So much for the "el rushbo" and "parroting" accusations.

Thought we were all supposed to keep the discussions at a higher level now. I'm posting facts, what are you posting?

[edit on 3/3/2010 by centurion1211]

reply to post by centurion1211


I'm not so sure the "Reaganomics" doctrines of neoconservatism parallel the core attributes of Republican economic principals... as the deficit grew and public debt ballooned. While Reagan's campaign speeches sold the story of lower taxes and smaller government (though it really didn't get smaller), he never achieved a reduction of national spending as compared to the GDP. And the alterations to the tax code under his administration had the appearance of reducing the basic rate, while accelerating increases in the social security tax and significantly reducing (or eliminating) many deductions such that it was close to a wash, not a reduction.

It's best to pay attention to actual actions, not speeches and blustery pundits.

(And this wouldn't be the first time the perception of historical events were skewed by reports and studies published through Congress.)

[edit on 3-3-2010 by SkepticOverlord]

Originally posted by SkepticOverlord
reply to post by centurion1211

 

I'm not so sure the "Reaganomics" doctrines of neoconservatism parallel the core attributes of Republican economic principals... as the deficit grew and public debt ballooned. While Reagan's campaign speeches sold the story of lower taxes and smaller government (though it really didn't get smaller), he never achieved a reduction of national spending as compared to the GDP. And the alterations to the tax code under his administration had the appearance of reducing the basic rate, while accelerating increases in the social security tax and significantly reducing (or eliminating) many deductions such that it was close to a wash, not a reduction.

You're now simply trying to change the subject. Reagan would have said, "There you go again ..."

You asked me for an example of a politician trying to follow the core values of their party and I gave you one - as reported from the U.S. Congress itself.

And if you read the article, it talks about actual results measured by actual tax receipts - not "blustery speeches".

[edit on 3/3/2010 by centurion1211]

Originally posted by SkepticOverlord

Originally posted by centurion1211
What about the huge difference economic theory and policy between the two parties?

Can you point to a moment in history where the supposed economic tenants of a party's traditional actual doctrine (not the skewed assumptions of the "other side") have actually been employed by that party's chief executive?

Democrats think the best way to fix and/or grow the economy is by taxing and spending, while Republicans say that tax cuts and smaller government will grow the economy.

To me, that's a fine example of "parroting" the media firebrands.


[edit on 3-3-2010 by SkepticOverlord]

So if we believe that keeping taxes low, and keeping government small, then we are parrots for saying it? Can we espouse our beliefs if we don't mention political parties? I believe in voting for the party which best represents my core values, which aren't the same as most ATS'ers. Am I supposed to keep quiet and stay out of political threads? Sorry, I think I am going to have to go find some newspaper to wrap up the stinking fish in here.

reply to post by centurion1211


The last two times the GOP has had the presidency for eight of more years their fiscal policy has led to two of the worse recessions the US has ever seen. And by no small coincidence both recessions were underscored by massive bank failures and scandals. The first by the savings and loan bailouts and the latest is well documented. The Reagan, Bush 1, Bush 2 administrations were also responsible for some of the largest debt increases at the time. So whilst Republicans like to resurrect the economic ghosts of Reagan as an example of sound fiscal policy, the opposite is in fact the truth. And in both cases it is we the American people who have had to foot the bill. The libertarian, small government is a GOP myth, and to this day the party marginalize Ron Paul who still tries to wave that flag.