POLI: Crime - What Are The Netherlands Doing Right?

It seems that without actually living in both places I can't really say for sure.
I live in the US "Florida", and I think that the population difference has something to do with it. There are many more people in the states, and in England then there are in The Netherlands am I right? So that means more crime, since there is such a big difference in the number of people. Also, the fact that we "US" have such a large number of different cultures living here.
I don't by any means want to sound racist, but certain ethnic groups that we have large numbers of without a doubt commit many of the crimes like rape,murder,robbery etc, so that would also play a role here. And coupled with the more lenient laws of The Netherlands is probably where such a difference is coming in to effect. Also, it seems like every day here in the states there is some bull# new law coming in to effect. Things that use to be perfectly legal 10 years ago make you a criminal now. I think we really need to hear from someone who has lived extensively in both places to hear what their thoughts are.
Good and interesting thread by the way..Thanks!

Stealth

A fantastic thread. It seems that many of the ills facing the USA atm can be alleviated by altering certain laws. Obviously this won't prevent crime completely, but those figures are pretty dam impressive and indicate that a significantly positive change could be the result.

If those statistics are indeed reliable, I would say many countries could learn a thing or two from the wise land of Netherlands.

*Starred and Flagged.*

Originally posted by Solidus Green eye

last week I was walking home with a friend, we had been to a club. We walked past a group of non-dutch youth. They provoked us into a fight.. I'm talking about 2 vs 9. Now is that weak or what. I got attacked by four 14-15 year old kids, acompanied by some older what seemned to be leaders.

[edit on 25-5-2009 by Solidus Green eye]

[edit on 25-5-2009 by Solidus Green eye]

9 vs 2 and they "provoked you into a fight"? Now how did they do that since i take it they didn't attack you? And you couldn't just swallow your pride and run away? Call the police?
Nah, no other choice then to get into a street brawl i guess...

reply to post by debunky


I may have stated it a bit unclear.

they attack us (meaning the two of us)
So it was us two against 9 Maroccan / Antiallian.

Sorry for the lack of english grammer.

reply to post by Jose Grinan


WTF? What does this have to do with anything there Jose?
Here we have a perfect example of what would happen if drugs were legal, people like Jose here would be everywhere babbling away and making no sense at all..lol
Just kidding, I am all for legalization of certain drugs especially marijuana, and I do think as others have said that it would make a big difference in the crime rate.

Originally posted by stealthsurfer
It seems that without actually living in both places I can't really say for sure.
I live in the US "Florida", and I think that the population difference has something to do with it. There are many more people in the states, and in England then there are in The Netherlands am I right? So that means more crime, since there is such a big difference in the number of people.
Stealth

The figures were per capita so the number of people isn't important.

reply to post by Solidus Green eye

Maybe the problem starts at home. Kids can't parent themselves, so unless these 2nd gen gangsters are part of an orphan mafia, I think it's safe to say something is going horribly wrong in their "etiquette training" at home.

Do you guys have the Boy Scouts? Maybe these kids just need the right role models and community. it sounds like their only social outlet involves these gangs. Joining a football team, an academic club, boy scouts, chess team, etc would probably do wonders for some of these 2nd geners.

I just hope you don't take the American approach, which would be increase taxes, increase budgets, pass new legislation to make innocuous things illegal as an excuse to target these people, kill all violators or arrest and incarcerate them, then watch the problem repeat itself in 8-16 years, because the underlying problem is never addressed, just the symptoms!

reply to post by ImaginaryReality1984

The figures were per capita so the number of people isn't important.

I stand corrected IR, when I initially went to the link you provided, it was down so I read through the thread and then replied without seeing the actual numbers. And that does make this thread even more interesting, thanks for the correction.

I'm also living in the Netherlands and I know for sure that our country tries to be a country where living should be easy and where everyone is feeling safe. And yes, our goverment is doing all posible things to make our country as safe as possible.

But we have our problems also. And I believe that every country has his own problems. No, we do not have free healthcare (I pay more than 200 euro's a month).

I also know a lot of people arround me who depends on a food-bank. And a very large number of people is living on the streets with no home to go. So, maybe we are not as criminal as other countries but yes we do have some serous big troubles and it seems that our goverment is doing nothing about that. If we are such a great and good country, how can it be that we have lots off people who do not have the money to buy food or clothes and pay rent for a house?

What are we doing right? I really don't know...

(please note - my English writing is very bad. Sorry for that in advance!)

I'm also living in the Netherlands and I know for sure that our country tries to be a country where living should be easy and where everyone is feeling safe. And yes, our goverment is doing all posible things to make our country as safe as possible. But we have our problems also. And I believe that every country has his own problems. No, we do not have free healthcare (I pay more than 200 euro's a month).

reply to post by GerhardPegel

I agree that all countries have their own problems that is just common sense, but it does appear that your government seems to care more about it's people than ours, and possibly others. And living is no longer easy here. So that alone would make you more content and happy and secure. If a government cares about it's people, then the people are happier and less likely to do bad things.
I am starting to finally realize that with my 11 yr old son.
When he does something bad, and I harshly punish him, he seems to rebel even more, and do other things to tick me off. But if I say hey buddy, what's going on, why did you do that? and try to have a more caring and personal approach to what he has done, he seems to care more about how I feel, and in turn behaves much better.
In other words, I and many others here feel like our government could care less about any of us than they do about themselves, and I think several threads here on any given day will prove that. So we don't feel cared for and are more likely to do bad things which might be illegal, which almost everything is nowadays, and there goes the numbers per capita

I lived in The Netherlands for four years, my ex husband is still there.
Up until recently it was the most populated country in Europe,..the UK has now overtaken in population figures.

Why is there less crime in The Netherlands, is imo due to it being a more equal society Denmark aslo has a low crime rate for the same reason.

In order to appreciate the Dutch policy on drugs the characteristics of Dutch society must be taken in mind.
The Dutch believe in the freedon of the individual with government taking a back seat in moral issues. They value the well being of society as a whole,their social security system is witness to this.
Their harm reduction policy with drugs which minimizes the risks and hazzards of drugs rather than the suppression of all drugs works.
Dutch policy gives priority to health care of addicts and prevention while having an agressive policy against organised drug crime.
Less people are addicted to drugs in The Netherlands than the UK because I guess prohibition does not work.

They have a far more liberal attitude to sex and sex education yet have less underage sex and single mothers than either the UK or the USA.

They also have less criminal offences in the last eleven years 400 new laws have been made in the UK i.e. it is now a fineable offence to put rubbish out on the wrong day here.

Family and family life is very important to the Dutch which must have some bearing on their society.

reply to post by GerhardPegel


I am only talking about crime rates. I was not saying the netherlands is a perfect country. This was soely about the crime rates.

Originally posted by Solidus Green eye
reply to post by debunky

 

I may have stated it a bit unclear.

they attack us (meaning the two of us)
So it was us two against 9 Maroccan / Antiallian.

Sorry for the lack of english grammer.

Ah, i see.
It was just that "getting provoked" in my book is usually a pretty lame excuse for starting a fight, wich makes putting the blame solely on the other party a bit hypocritical

But since that wasn't what you meant i apologize for misunderstanding you.

remeber if you don't like it in the USA or its laws, you can always leave it for someplace you consider "better"

[edit on 25-5-2009 by 31337]

reply to post by Solidus Green eye


Moroccans AND Antillean?? Forgive me if I find that hard to believe.

Antillean and Moroccans are from two very different cultures, and they hardly hang out together.

And also forgive me if I don't believe that the crime rate in Holland is that low. There is also a reigning malcontent with law enforcement and lack of trust in the police there. They usually see them as lazy and only focused on fining traffic infiltrations.

And they don't report the thousands of stolen bicycles every day. I've seen with my own eyes how some boys were knocking on the chain of a bike in broad daylight, and no one even bothered to interfere or call the police. (I didn't call either, assuming someone else would.. so blame me.. )

reply to post by 31337


Some people have no choice, but to stay where they are.

I doubt holland is that great no matter what the press says.

Laws have little to do with crime rates. Scarcity has every thing to do with crime rates. When people have not the basic necessities of life and are desperate some turn to crime.

If you say drug abuse is there motivation then what leed them to drugs. Scarcity. We live in a monetary system that can only grow through the demise of many for the gain of a few, for the economy runs on growth.

The people of Netherlands pay some of the highest taxes in the developed world. For this they have reduced the division between the rich and the poor. Heath care for all, sick benefits for all and all citizens retire with a comfortable retirement pension.

The people live with a lot less stress then most. They know they will never be living under a bridge, if any unforeseen tragedy were to affect them. I think they are a less materialistic society aswell, socializing is important to them and they make time for it.

The arts and creativity are encouraged. Artists and musicians are less likely to starve.

Those who can not see the correlation between scarcity and crime have a hard time viewing a situation from anothers view point.

I feel the only true way to eliminate crime is to abolish the monetary system and move to a resource based system were all work, to provide for one another.

All are feed, housed and work only for the betterment of the world and not so a old guy somewhere can buy a yacht and drink five thousand dollar bottles of wine. A world were technology is used to better our lives though the automation of mundane tasks.

I do not see us surviving much longer as a species under the current system. Mother nature is more important than any one species.

Most humans have become a cancer to this beautiful earth. I'm optamistic... and feel we are slowly waking up to this challenging reality.

We will rise to the challenge! Personal Responsability!

Social structure will determine drug use and crime. Countries with poor social structure will experience low crime and drug use. Those countries who have no relief for those at the bottom will have higher crime and higher drug use. Poverty and the feeling of hopelessness are the major motives for people using drugs in my opinion. Give people the means to pull themselves out of the poverty and you get less crime and drug use. Simple as that. Why go along with society when all society does is kick you in the britches?