Russia/Georgia Situation News & Updates

Originally posted by sunspot0
few days ago i read a thread about 08-08-08.....looks like something big is going down.

weird huh..

That was all bunk, and all the bunksters came here to bunk it, blinded by John Edwards and George Noorey's "have you pulled a prank or ever pranked someone?" line on Friday Night 8/8/08 (God, I hate that man....) are proud to have bunked it. But all this is spilling into this week and beyond. To all the naysayers and bunksters...I told ya' so. We are all going to die as promised. Stay tuned to ATS and you might see it coming.

15,000 Russian troops in Georgia, U.S. administration officials say

TBILISI, Georgia (CNN) -- Russia has likely moved additional troops into Georgia and its breakaway provinces over the past several days, several administration officials told CNN on Wednesday.
A woman wheels her belongings through Tskhinvali, capital of the breakaway enclave of South Ossetia.

A woman wheels her belongings through Tskhinvali, capital of the breakaway enclave of South Ossetia.
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The officials said Russia probably has at least 15,000 troops in the region. The U.S. government had estimated 8,000 to 10,000 Russian troops had moved into Georgia when fighting began last week. A Bush administration official stressed that the scope of Russia's military effort remains unclear.

Russia was blasted diplomatically Wednesday by President Bush over reports of ongoing Russian military operations.

U.S. Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice also said Russian military action in Georgia "must stop and must stop now."

Georgia and Russia accused each other of violating the cease-fire deal agreed Tuesday to end fighting over the breakaway South Ossetia province.

Bush said he was told the Russian military had blocked Georgia's major east-west highway and had soldiers at the main port at Poti, and there were reports that some ships had been attacked.

Russian Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov said that there were no Russian troops in Poti but that there were soldiers on the outskirts of Gori and Senaki, to the west, according to the Russian news agency Interfax. Senaki is south of another separatist province, Abkhazia.

"They are staying there to neutralize the large arsenal of weapons and other military hardware in the areas of Gori and Senaki. These arsenals remain unguarded. Apparently those who guarded them fled," Lavrov said.

He added that Russia's operations are "aimed at ensuring the peace-enforcement operation in respect to the Georgian side, which violates all of its obligations," and his office denied that Russia had violated the cease-fire.

International agreements signed in the early 1990s allow Russian peacekeepers to maintain a presence in South Ossetia and Abkhazia.

Bush said he was sending Rice to France and Georgia to discuss the violence over disputed provinces within Georgia's borders and to express "America's unwavering support" to the Georgian government.

www.cnn.com...

Its heating up it seems

The report that Geogia killed 1600-2000 people are Russia's claims and cannot be independently verfied as Russia controls the whole region.

Judging by Russia's track-record for telling the truth, it is no doubt a fabrication.

It's funny, because I only watched two interviews (one of an American man and one of a Russian woman) in South Ossetia. They each said nearly the same thing with the exact words "This is worse than Hitler". It goes to show you these Interviewees were coached prior to their interview as how to respond.

Russia had done this before with Poland and Finland. Russia always claims of an attack on their foothold of the region and than uses that as a pretext for invasion.

Keep in mind, Russia had over 1000 Tanks and 200 fighter-planes on-the-ready near Georiga's border since July 19th! You can't moblize a force of that magnitude in a few hours. It was planned for some time now.

Now, what should the US and Europe do? If Russia goes for the Capital, the US will certainly step in. The US will not allow Russia to take the Capital. You heard it here first. Either Russia will back-off, or be forced out of there by US and/or NATO forces.

As for Nuclear war? Conventional war will be exhausted first in the event of a conflict. Nuclear war is for the sore loser. If Russia lost a conventional conflict with the US, would they threaten Nuclear war? Possibly, but unlikely they would launch any Nuclear missles. They know it would mean total annilahation of Moscow.

Putin himself as an ex-KGB official knows about those risks and what could happen all-to-well.



[edit on 13-8-2008 by jetxnet]

what the hell ?

10 pages of replys just up a disapered on this thread

Further clarification from the Associated Press saying that the incursion earlier by Russian forces into Gori was supported by Ossetian militia, and that they were not independent of one another. Others have already said that Russian soldiers claimed they were headed for Tbilisi, however this is a new link reporting the same.

An Associated Press reporter saw dozens of Russian trucks and armored vehicles leaving the city of Gori, some 20 miles south of the separatist region of South Ossetia and home of a key highway that divides Georgia in two, and moving deeper into Georgia.

Soldiers waved at journalists and one jokingly shouted, "Come with us, beauty, we're going to Tbilisi." The convoy roared southeast, toward the Georgian capital, but then turned north and set up camp about an hour's drive away from it.

Georgian officials said the Russians had looted and bombed Gori before they left. Moscow denied the accusation, but it appeared to be on a technicality: A BBC reporter in Gori said Russian tanks were in the streets while their South Ossetian allies seized cars, looted homes and set houses on fire.

Source
Whether it was just words on the part of the soldier or not remains to be seen of course. I would like to believe that they really are just trying to destroy a weapons depot and secure Gori against looting due to its abandonment, as they claimed. I don't know, though. The alleged looting by the Ossetian irregulars, who appear to have been working in tandem with Russian forces, seems to damage that claim.


[edit on 8/13/2008 by AceWombat04]

Before I post the day's news from Russia I want to make a post with several observations from Russia:


There is much controversy in Russia about the S. Ossetian war - who started it, who is wrong, who is right, and where this is heading. Despite what you may think - many Russians are openly discussing whether Russia's actions were justified, and many are asking how it got to the point that U.S. is involved. As I said before - no one side is right and blame rests on everyone but the innocent civilians. Question everyone, and look from as close to the middle as possible. Here are some conclusions various Russian experts have reached - instead of justifying one side or the other I will explain how all sides are to blame:

As a Russian, let me start by blaming Russia first lest anyone call me biased.


1. ---------------------- Russia's faults.
It is a known fact that Russia has been helping S. Ossetia and Abkhazia militarily, politically, and economically ever since the conflicts in these break-away regions first flared up over a decade ago. Why was Russia doing this? Territory; more geo-political control over Georgia and the Caucasus; Russia feels entitled to the sphere of influence in the area. Georgia has struggled against these separatists in Russia's shadow for all this time. To worsen the situation in early 90's Russia issued passports to Ossetians and Abkhaz. This was the first mistake of Russia. Russie redeemed itself however when Russian peacekeepers helped stabilize the situation for over a decade - the first war was largely stopped thanks to Russia. Also Russia never approved of the separatists becoming independent.

Fast forward to this year. With both sides (georgia and Russia) gradually building up forces in and near S. Ossetia and Abkhazia - the separatists began to provoke action from Georgia by waging small scale attacks. Georgia responded with small scale attacks back. Meanwhile Russia turned a blind eye. This was Russia's second mistake. It knew of how unstable the situation was, and yet did not prevent S. Ossetian attacks - knowning well enough that it has the power to prevent them.

Then when Georgia attacked, Russia brought in troops and humanitarian aid to stop the violance. At that point the intervention was justified. However that is when Russia made the third and most crucial mistake for which it can be blamed - it went further than S. Ossetia and intervened on Georgian soil. Even if it never had plans to invade, Russia was not justified in pursuing Georgian forces - even minding the fact that Georgians still shelled S. Ossetia from time to time. Air strikes were more than enough. Russia abused the fact that it had an upper hand military-wise. And even if it did not occupy anything in the long term - a neutral observer can fault Russian leadership for this. Russia took Saakashvilli's bait, possibly because of greed or need to show off its military capabilities - and fell in the propaganda trap.


2.------------ Georgia's faults.
Georgia was a victim of tragic consequences for much of the 90's. Even so it managed to keep up good relations with Russia while holding its claims to the separatist territories thanks to the master politician Shevarnadze. Fast forward to the US-backed Rose Revolution. Shevarnadze is elected, but Saakashvilli manages to stage quick bloodless coup based on still unproven disputed results of the first election. Saakashvilli wastes no time - cuts all ties to Russia, and quickly moves towards major friendship with US and NATO. Fair enough - Georgia has the right for self-determination.

But then Saakashvilli makes Georgia's first crucial mistake leading to the current conflict - for which Georgia can be blamed. He announces that he will build-up Georgian military, and that he wants Russian peacekeepers out of the separatist republics. His moves are seen by most as the start of Georgia's attempts to gain an upper hand over the separatists - even if it will mean bloodshed.

Russian peacekeepers first refuse to leave, but are then pressured into its by the West and by Georgia. The peacekeepers first leave most of Abkhazia and the Kodori Gorge. Then they begin abandoning S. Ossetia (before they begin to return there in Spring of 2008). Georgia under Saakashvilli is knowingly destabilizing the situation by forcing Russian peacekeepers out - and the blame on this rests on Saakashvilli.

Georgia then starts to rapidly militarize the region in 2008 - pulling in its troops, starts talk of NATO, and lets US lay the pipeline close to the powder keg - more mistakes. This military build-up eventually lead to what many in Russia and S. Osseta/Abkhazia are predicting - Georgia gets ready to retake the breakaway regions. Georgia's biggest fault - it lets itself be provoked by S. Ossetians, and recklessly launches a full scale assault, with an artillery attack on Tskhinvalli. Once the big boys start shooting - war is inescapable. Saakashvilli knows this, but hopes the war will turn out in Georgia's favor - even if many SO civilians and Georgian troops die.

Georgia's fault #3 - Saakashvilli starts a full blown propaganda campaign to make it seem to his Western allies that Russia is invading - without any proof other than Russia carries out limited operations against Georgian military. At one point Saakashvilli has the West convinced that Georgia is falling - and the West is all too happy to believe him. He brings it dangerously close to a direct US-Russia confrontation.


3. -------------------U.S./NATO's faults

U.S.'s first major mistake is funding the Rose Revolution/Coup without much regard for what this would mean for the breakaway regions. U.S. helps replace a democratically elected leader with a puppet. It's reasons for the coup become clear soon enough - they start to construct a vital oil pipeline very close to the conflict region, ignoring how destabilizing this makes the whole situation (this was discussed on ATS for over 2 years now). Once the oil starts flowing it is part of the West's energy infrastructure - and the U.S. can not afford to lose it, even if it means it could get directly involved in the conflict.

U.S.'s second mistake - knowing all that was stated about, U.S. makes the region even more destabilized by supply Saakashvilli with military equipments and training his troops. They know that they are training the troops to retake the separatist regions eventually, but ignore the possibility of serious bloodshed in the future. In 2008 with the visit of Condoleeza Rice the U.S. appears to give Georgia a go-ahead for the planned attack. Add to this the growing influence of NATO in Russia's backyard - no one expects Russia to ignore the obvious threat. NATO membership talks eventually start for Georgia.

U.S.'s third mistake is to throw total support behing Saakashvilli, without questioning his reckless attack. U.S. government makes Russia out to be the sole aggressor - Georgia's actions are not publicized much. Then Bush and Cheney make very troubling remarks against Russia, even though Russia has not started any large-scale intervention in Georgia, and never really advanced to Tbilisi or likely planned to. U.S. likely knows that Russia does not want to invade, but still makes it seem to everyone that Georgia is in imminent danger. U.S. media is purposely clounding up the conflict and making it more confusing.

U.S then announces that it will directly help Georgia and very likely supply more military equipment (AKA humanitarian aid) to it. Without attempts to approach the conflict from both sides, the U.S. ignores Russia and S. Ossetia - and pledges complete support for Georgia. It is likely that U.S. will use this as an excuse to invite Georgia to join NATO, further destabilizing the region. And then there is the neighboring Azerbaijan, also subject to a separatist conflict with one side being the pro-Russian Armenia. And America's pipeline was also laid right through the disputed territory. This is a promise of more trouble to come.


------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
So in summary all three parties caused this conflict. All three acted recklessly irresponsibly in some way. All three should be blamed for the deaths of innocent civilians on both sides. All three should be blamed for fact that Russian-American relations are now in the gutter again. All three should be blamed for paving the way for more wars to come (read Nagorno-Karabakh).

before the conflict:

Russia knows that the region is a powder keg, but doesn't bother to put out the starting fire only adding more powder.

Saakashvilli knows he is dealing with a powder keg, but continues to play with fire in close proximity - likely on purpose.

U.S. knows that they are getting involved in a power keg, but continues to supply Georgia with matches.

during the conflict:

Russia continues the intervention beyond what is necessary, resulting in more casulaties and causing concern in the West.

Georgia spreads false information including flase cease fire pledges and rumors of Russian invasion, and continues to bait Russia to attack inside Georgia.

U.S. and its Euro allies place the blame on just one side and not the other, wage their own propaganda war, and take advantage of the situation by quickening the pace of militarizing (future NATO) the Caucasus and paving the way for future conflicts.






I admit that I threw my support behind Russia at first, but I still feel that Georgian attack on Tskhinvalli was not justified, and Russia is justified for intervening at first. But now I am just disgusted by all three sides - or rather the politicians on all three sides.

Please try and understand this from a neutral point of view. It will help us all understand what is happening, and what could have prevented this.

Thank You

Judging by Russia's track-record for telling the truth, it is no doubt a fabrication.

Ohh really ?
Here is an american in S.O telling it.I guess you are an american but you are not in S.O? here is one that is. I guess he has blood all over his face.

Propaganda ehhh?

reply to post by maloy


Another highly informative post, maloy

I heard today that Georgia actually requested Australian troops to intervene in the conflict! It was of course refused, but it seems like Georgia was trying drag whoever it could from the West into the conflict.

Damn, they're really playing with fire.

Good points Maloy, but Russia has gone to far already. They have set up camp for the time-being about an hour outside of the Capital.

If follows the same pattern, they stop to collect resources and go over strategy and then advance thereafter.

Don't be surprised, if tomorrow, you hear they are moving toward the Capital.

This is where the shyte will really hit the fan. The Capital is the last straw and the US-NATO forces will likely get involved militarily.

All Russia has to do is honor the peace agreement they signed and agreed to presented by the French President. They broke the agreement are doing the opposite of what they agreed to.

This should tell you that Russia intends to go into the Capital.

Let's hope they do not, but somehow the signs are pointing to this.

reply to post by jetxnet


jetxnet why don't you answer my above post?
Why don't you take a look at the movie clip?



[edit on 13-8-2008 by pepsi78]

Jeff Rense has Jim Marrs on discussing this topic, check it:

www.rense.com...

And you missed my post Pepsi .. regarding the interviews in South Ossetia, I said this:

It's funny, because I only watched two interviews (one of an American man and one of a Russian woman) in South Ossetia. They each said nearly the same thing with the exact words "This is worse than Hitler". It goes to show you these Interviewees were coached prior to their interview as how to respond.

They are coached before the interview by Russian officals who control the whole region now. It doesn't take a Rocket Scientist to figure that out (or does it? Sometimes I wonder).

reply to post by maloy


You have voted maloy for the Way Above Top Secret award. You have two more votes this month.

reply to post by jetxnet


Ohh boy this is what I call ignorance, The man has blond on the face, he states that he has relatives from there and with his own words states that they cut of water suply, that they are roling over graves and that they are killing children and old people and that his wife's brother died.Now you can twist and turn it how ever you want it but it's his own words.

This is what I call ignorance.



[edit on 13-8-2008 by pepsi78]

Gone too far??????????


Short of Russia using nuclear weapons or anyone else etc I don't care if they do invade .. When you have the entire population of the world at stake in the ballance here No one can go too far !!!!!

My god people Wake the hell up here.... Do you understand what you are talking about? Some people here are ADVOCATING ? Do you ??


This situation is a hair trigger from full out nuclear war.. Do you people understand what the hell would happen if just 1 nuclear weapon was used on ether side? Do ?!!!!!!!!

More then likely every single person reading this would not survive.. the Majority of europ and US would go up in a nuclear ball of flames..

My god.. Wake the hell up please.. Nothing..NOTHING AT ALL IS WORTH THAT!!!!!!! I would Gladly submit myself under a dictatorship or whatever as long as millions of people were not turned into burnt toast by a nuclear war..

Just.. Wow..... This situation is DANGEROUS to the entire world..

Edit..

Let me be absolutely clear here.. There isn't a damn thing in the world worth the cost of a nuclear war... Not a damn thing.

[edit on 13-8-2008 by wolfmanjack]

Ohh boy this is what I call ignorance, The man has blond on face, he states that he has relatives from there and with his own words states that they cut of water suply, that they are roling over graves and that they are killing children and old people and that his wife's brother died.Now you can twist and turn it how ever you want it but it's his own words.

This is what I call ignorance.

It's no wonder you're ignorant then. We got a term for this type of thing in the US, and it's called "Drama Queen", though it can pertain to a man.

With people interviewed in S. Ossetia, you are only going to hear what Russia wants you to. Get it? I doubt it.

Anyway, i've been right on everything so far.

I said Russia would go into Gori - they did
I said Russia would break their peace agreement - they did

Now i'm saying, they will likely go into (or attempt to) the Capital within the next 24hrs.

I understand your concern, but step back from the pipe. You jumped a WHOLE lot of scenarios to come to your 1 nuke conclusion.

Yes we know what just one nuke would mean. Do YOU have any idea what it would take for either side to get to the point where that 1 nuke was to be used? Believe me, it would take a lot more than just Georgia. We would need to see a WHOLE lot more events unfold first.

Dont push the panic button just yet bruh.

Originally posted by wolfmanjackThis situation is a hair trigger from full out nuclear war.. Do you people understand what the hell would happen if just 1 nuclear weapon was used on ether side? Do ?!!!!!!!!

we have an operational missile defense system that is in use and has been tested, missles really arent a threat anymore, one or two may get through but the place you call russia would get nailed with about 499 neutron bombs, these bombs kill people , and have no fallout, they leave structure standing, then georgia could walk in and take over

so no im not worried about a nuclear holocaust, only ones to watch for are the ones they handcarried in here, and we have em over there too,

you could probally kiss new york, washing dc, chicago goodbye, but that is if we havent already found these contingent bombs and got rid of them already

quote]

It's no wonder you're ignorant then. We got a term for this type of thing in the US, and it's called "Drama Queen", though it can pertain to a man.

It's simple.The guy was there with his wife on vacation.
There is no evidence of any fabrication, have you got any evidence on that or is it just your word?

Here is your so called Georgian democracy.All of this before the war.

Originally posted by princeofpeace
I understand your concern, but step back from the pipe. You jumped a WHOLE lot of scenarios to come to your 1 nuke conclusion.

Yes we know what just one nuke would mean. Do YOU have any idea what it would take for either side to get to the point where that 1 nuke was to be used? Believe me, it would take a lot more than just Georgia. We would need to see a WHOLE lot more events unfold first.

Dont push the panic button just yet bruh.

Originally posted by wolfmanjackThis situation is a hair trigger from full out nuclear war.. Do you people understand what the hell would happen if just 1 nuclear weapon was used on ether side? Do ?!!!!!!!!

What it would take? .. Lets see

1. Russia has stated if the US uses precision bombs IE Airstrikes on russian troops Russia would use Tactical nuclear weapons.

So quite frankly that means we the world are 1 air strike away from nuclear war.

I do not think the world has been this close to nuclear war ever... The fingers are hovering over the nuclear button mate..

Yea .. i might be jumping the gun a bit here.. But the situation IS this serious. And people NEED to understand this fact.. This IS a hell of a lot more important to the world then a lot of people are acting like.

Edit.
You know what .. I hope im just nutz.. I hope your right.. I hope to hell im full of hot air .. I really really do hope i have misjudged the situation. Because if i have not ... Well nice knowing you..

[edit on 13-8-2008 by wolfmanjack]