Woman Dies after Airport Arrest

i like thid part of the article

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When Gotbaum was found the handcuffs were in front of her body and the shackle was still attached to her handcuffs, officials said. They said the chain was not wrapped around her neck

Still doesn't explain how she was strangled, thus why there will be investigation in the autopsy. How likely is that to happen with handcuffs(Likely with 16 inch chain )? Just seems like something more went on.



[edit on 2-10-2007 by dreamingawake]

reply to post by dreamingawake


well, apparently she was cuffed and shackled....still, with the 16 inches of chain, i am still not seeing it. i don't see how she could do this to herself

If it really was then, she must have been very violent into action.

Did she swallow her tongue? was it a heart attack? Stroke? She was under extreme stress at the airport, and she was recovering from addiction. I have seen people so upset that they start to have anxiety attacks which can lead to improper breathing and heart rates. Fear added to that from the arrest could have been enough to kill her. Stress and fear are killers, just ask a cardiologist.

Originally posted by esdad71
Did she swallow her tongue? was it a heart attack? Stroke? She was under extreme stress at the airport, and she was recovering from addiction. I have seen people so upset that they start to have anxiety attacks which can lead to improper breathing and heart rates. Fear added to that from the arrest could have been enough to kill her. Stress and fear are killers, just ask a cardiologist.

well if she died in any of those ways she didn't 'strangle' herself then did she?
you are not suspicious about this at all?

She could of been a contortionist & double jointed, and just got tangled up, because of her rant & rage. Sure she should have been watched, but it appears she did it to herself. Strange, but it could happen........ Instead of cuffing & chaining to a bench.....How about portable padded cells? Something a cop could just roll-up into his squad car....Add air and Bingo! you got a protective padded-cell. It wouldn't have to be much bigger then an outhouse.

It's a shame what happened to this woman, but it appears she should have had mental health care a long time ago.

Originally posted by Conspiracy Theorist
reply to post by paraclete1

 

So you didnt actually read the article in the OP.

Such a long winded post when you could have just said no.

CT

Yes, I read the original post, and I read the "updated 9:23 p.m. EDT, Mon October 1, 2007" revision when you made your post. Did you notice that line in the upper left hand corner?

The original post did not have the comments on a chain being involved, nor was the video of the officers comments the same. Both the article and video had been updated.

Did you read the original post at the time the OP made his remarks about the woman being beaten? NO you didn't, Instead you come into this almost a full day after the event to accuse people of not reading. I suggest you hold off on making such comments until you have all your facts straight too rather than assuming we're not bothering to read everything.

[edit on 2-10-2007 by paraclete1]

Originally posted by Boondock78
and you know, back in the day, the plane would wait two mintes while she ran through.....
everything is so straght edged these days...there needs to be wiggle room…

This is not true…
Even years ago, if you showed up after they had closed the door and started to remove the jet way, you would not get on the aircraft. To the average person it seems like no big deal to reopen the door and replace the jetway, but airlines start paying fines of $5000 per minute beyond five minutes of being late off the gate. This cost goes up drastically as the folks who made it to their flights on time start to miss their connecting flights at the other end. So to say that it is no big deal to wait an extra 5 to 10 minutes is not the case by a long shot. There has never been wiggle room in aviation, going back to the days when the government started holding on-time records against the airlines.

Also, and I know I have posted this multiple times on this site; its not ok to pitch a fit in an airport terminal. I have seen folks be arrested for this back in the late 80’s, so this is also nothing new. An airport terminal is a privately owned structure, and it is under federal regulation, doing anything disruptive in that area is grounds to be arrested. You have no first amendment rights in the terminal as you can cause apprehension or even panic among the other passengers, and you can cause an employee to make a mistake by focusing on the ruckus instead of their work. None of this stuff is new and it has been this way since at least the 1980’s…

As to what happened in this particular incident, I think there is some information missing here yet, which is required to make an evaluation of the topic.
Was this person going through withdraws which tends to make folks agitated and paranoid beyond reason?
Was she struggling in the cell to the point that she had to be restrained?
Was her death due to DT’s, which is very common in alcohol withdraw (over a 33% possibility)?

As I said there is more to this story which is not yet known, and I see nothing inappropriate in the actions of the officers at this point.

Ahhh yes it reminds me of a CSI episode where the crew and Passangers on a plane killed a man who was running up and sown the isles. They thought he was a terrorist or a crazy person when in fact he was having a medical reaction. So they beat him to death.....
When a person is under stress and depression their bodies and minds can do strange things. However Lets not rule out seizure being the way she was strangled. It is possible for your limbs to rotate painfully in their sockets durring a seizure and if you are restraind at the time it can be bad.

I am suspicious, but I learned to try not to jump the gun. Alot of people said those 'kids' in the Carolinas had only rocket parts but now there is a TSA alert for remote controlled cars on airlines.

If this happened to my wife, I would want the person who arrested her so I could have my 10 minutes with them. However, we do not know the whole story. A panic attack can cause someone to lose consciousness like an asthma attack from breathing improperly and accelerated heart rate. If she happened to be on any medication for the pre alchohol treatment it could have also aided in the death.

Curiosity killed the cat once so know I tread lightly. Also, please note that I have not once stated that there could be no police involvement in the death. It is still a possibility, but occums razor is a good thing to live by.

I wonder how certain people here, who defend this police action, would react, if the women dead, would be their mother. Or sister. Or wife. Anyway, there are some weird things regarading her death - for example:

Family Calls for Investigation of Death in Holding Cell

Hill said it was possible that Gotbaum may have accidentally strangled herself while trying to escape from the handcuffs.

But former law enforcement officers and police tactics trainers said it would be very unusual for that to happen.

"I can't imagine anatomically how you could do that," said Roy Bedard, a former police officer who now trains officers in defense tactics, including how to use handcuffs and other restraints. "I have a hard time seeing how you could get tangled up in them."

Dorothy Dietrich, a magician and escape artist, said she also was not sure how someone could choke themselves to death while trying to escape from handcuffs. "That would be very hard to do," she said.

Apparently, women who yell "I'm not a terrorist! I'm a sick mom! I need help!" are able to strangle themselves with handcuffs - even when it seems almost impossible to do, for a 110-pound woman who ACCIDENTLY strangls herself, given that she was cuffed behind her back and shackled to a bench. Were police officers out of tazer guns this time?

[edit on 2/10/07 by Souljah]

Originally posted by SteelWeed
Ahhh yes it reminds me of a CSI episode where the crew and Passangers on a plane killed a man who was running up and sown the isles. They thought he was a terrorist or a crazy person when in fact he was having a medical reaction. So they beat him to death.....

Ahhhhh!!
But here is the problem when it comes to aviation. At what point does your individual right to act a certain way become a hazard to the safety of other passengers, and override their rights?
If they had not restrained a person who was acting up on an aircraft, what was to stop that person from opening an emergency exit, or exit door. As a passenger you have a right to safe passage, and you have a right to expect certain behavior from the other folks who are traveling with you. In an aircraft there are many things that an out of control person can do which can seriously jeopardize the safety of those around them, and at what point do those folks have a right to protect themselves. Besides the fact that to the average person air travel is a stressful experience to begin with.

Maybe, if the person has a history of this type of problem they should be denied air travel, unless they charter a specific medical flight where they can be restrained, monitored, and sedated. Its only fair to others who would have to share a flight with this person otherwise. You have the right in this country to do pretty much whatever you want until it starts to interfere with the rights of others, then that is where your personal liberties end.


[edit on 10/2/2007 by defcon5]

...the handcuffs were in front of her body and the shackle was still attached to her handcuffs, officials said. They said the chain was not wrapped around her neck. It was pulled against the front of her neck area...

Consider this position:

Your left arm is behind your head.and bent down so that your left hand touches your right shoulder blade.

Your right hand is touching your right shoulder and cuffed to your left hand.

You are seated upright on the floor, cocked to one side on your right hip.

Your feet are shackled to each other to your left side.

The Shackle chain connecting your shackles to your cuffs, which was comfortably behind yoru back is now crossing over your left hip, across your chest, under your throat, and to the center of your short link cuffs.

You have arrived at this position by dislocating your right shoulder and relocating it, but because the shackle chain is so short you cannot pass your head backwards under your bent left arm.

The shackle chain is less than 24 inches, and now that your in this position, you're 45 years old and not as flexible as you used to be... so you ease pressure on your pained joints by applying pressure to your own throat.

Death,

Sri Oracle



[edit on 2-10-2007 by Sri Oracle]

Originally posted by Souljah
Apparently, women who yell "I'm not a terrorist! I'm a sick mom! I need help!" are able to strangle themselves with handcuffs - even when it seems almost impossible to do, for a 110-pound woman who ACCIDENTLY strangls herself, given that she was cuffed behind her back and shackled to a bench. Were police officers out of tazer guns this time?

I don’t think its fair to make such statements until they have conducted an autopsy. Alcohol is the most dangerous substance to withdraw from, and just that factor alone makes this person more susceptible to death then others would be. Death from DT’s runs something like 33% to 50%, due to the effect that alcohol has on the nervous system, and thus the cardiac system. It is entirely possible that she could have gotten herself so worked up that her parasympathetic nervous system caused her to have a seizure or a heart arrhythmia. In that case the police might be responsible for negligence in not observing her more carefully, but not as an overt act of causing her death. Its possible that she was doing something to herself to claim the police had abused her in some way (people do this all the time), and it may be why she was shackled in the cell. Then on the other hand we might find out that an officer lost his/her temper and did something totally illegal. Either way we have to wait until we have more information to come to such a conclusion.

[edit on 10/2/2007 by defcon5]

Why was she arrested in the first place - yelling and screaming? Is that what the world has sunk to? I think detention was a step too far.

[edit on 2-10-2007 by mirageofdeceit]

Well, I would be nice to hear her side of the story,
but she's dead now, isn't she.

One more witness eliminated.
Probably spawn a handcuff safety program.

My guess is she had some military secret, was about to expose it,
and was eliminated. Keep in mind her husbands position.

It was wrong to leave her alone in the state she was in.
But................
I bet they raped her and then killed her to shut her up.
Lots of bad apples in the law, I know a few.

reply to post by esdad71


a panic attack or an asthma attack is not death by strangulation.

i'm sure people did get arrested in the 80's in airports. i doubt many died as a result though. things were different back then in general.
there is no gray area anymore and it blows.

maybe he was going through dt's and did need help..so much for that.

I do agree about the airplane saftey issue. I was just making a comparison
to the way people can react out of fear or anger. Obviously CSI is just a TV show and not based on any reality. I think it unlikely that security beat her to death, but the truth is often stranger than fiction.
To suggest that they raped her may be going to far lets see some evidence first.