Woman Dies after Airport Arrest

Originally posted by TKainZero

The woman got mad, and was arrested.

wrong...
she got mad, she got arrested, and now she is dead...
WHY is she dead?

they were responsible for her...

so why do you think she is dead? really no excuse for it...
i keep running it though my head and no matter which way i keep slicing it, i see the cops as liable.
how can you see it any other way.

and you know, back in the day, the plane would wait two mintes while she ran through.....

everything is so straght edged these days...there needs to be wiggle room...

Good post some people are blind.

Its sad violance is being almost accepted for this gov non cpmpliance with law they make.

nice zappa pic......anyways, the individual in the cell is responsible for herself. Obviously she was very upset, but NO pepper or taser was used. They choose instead to restrain her with handcuffs, and in the attempt to get out of them she killed herself. Absolute tradgedy, I mean, I cannot imagine living with it if it was my wife or sister, but folks, it is an accident.

The police did nothing other than put her in a holding cell. They came back after a while and found her unresponsive if I read correcty. Do we even have a cause of death? If she was so upset, could it have not been a coronary or a stroke?

Police brutality should not be tolerated but crying wolf can never help.

Originally posted by esdad71
nice zappa pic......

^^^^thanks


anyways, the individual in the cell is responsible for herself.

^^^source of some sort.? not saying you're wrong but i was always under the impression that they are responsible for you when you are in custody.


They choose instead to restrain her with handcuffs,

^^^^well now they are saying a 16 inch chain...

and in the attempt to get out of them she killed herself.

^^^^^so very positive eh? it's hard to think you believed that when you thought she was cuffed with normal cuffs. we've been through how that is not possible.

Absolute tradgedy, I mean, I cannot imagine living with it if it was my wife or sister, but folks, it is an accident.


^^^i will take a gander...you would be freaking balls and up in arms cause 'they' cause the death of your wife....lets get real here....who wouldn't...it's your wife...if you do say no, i would have just accepted it i will have to say sorry, i don't believe you.

The police did nothing other than put her in a holding cell.

^^^put her in a cell and clearly did not onserve this 'irate woman....seems like neglect to me

They came back after a while and found her unresponsive if I read correcty. Do we even have a cause of death? If she was so upset, could it have not been a coronary or a stroke?

Police brutality should not be tolerated but crying wolf can never help.

you seem awfully sure it is cut and dry.
you seem to be one of the few.

Originally posted by infamouskiller

Like the 50 video cameras didnt video tape it. Ya um ok.

Yeah and watch how fast those videos either disappear or are claimed to be defective.

They're probably being confiscated as we type.

Sorry for my short post on the previos page, i was pressed for time waiting at the bus stop.

Let me clarify, the woman, according to the offical record, died on her own accord. However tragic it may be, it should not be the officers fault, and nor is it.

The woman died in an acdental suicide, this is the only way to descibe what happen.

As tragic as it may be, it is the womans fault, and only she can be held accountable.

There are some things that you can feel sorry for, in my way of thinking, i have tryed to narrow it down, rather then feeling sorry for the act of every idiot, feel sorry for those that only true tragidies happen too, i no longer can feel sorrow for the actions of those that are dumb or stupid.

If this lady would have acted in a reasonable manner, the entire situation would have been avoided, insted she foolishly acted on her emotions, and killed herself, the tilte is misleading, but it is not the job of the media to tell the truth, it is to make stories sound better then they are.

For instance, this story would have generated much less attention if the title had spelled out what had happen more precisly. A title such as 'Woman kills self after arrest' would sell less then 'Woman dies after arrest' the latter title gives the sense that the woman is a victum, and thus makes more people feel sorry for what happen, and more intrested in the story.

What's next, a high school teenager gets tasered and gets arrested, then death becomes a result?

TKainZero,

Personally, i think the visibility of today's society, with all the video recorders and cell phone videos, has made law enforcement into something more evil than it was perceived to be in times past. the truth is, it may be no worse or better, just more cameras are rolling. on top of that, you rarely see examples where they are doing good things because no one wants to hear about that good stuff. it's boring, perhaps?

however, in the case of this woman, she was on her way to alcohol rehab. she was delirious and probably going threw the DTs. when you encounter a person who is mentally/physically ill, in a law enforcement position, the first order of business is to take additional steps to ensure their safety and the safety of those around them. this does not necessarily always require restraints and a holding cell. sometimes it requires a hospital.

i think they need more effective methods to deal with people who are clearly ill. she even said as much, but society views mentally challenged people, either due to illness, drugs or birth defects, as not worthy of the same consideration as people with more obvious handicaps. as far as i'm concerned, that's a tragedy.

and so was this. it was clearly not anymore her fault, than it is to say it's the fault of a autistic child if they act out. when under the psychological effects of DTs and other withdrawal scenarios, it can cause hallucinations and mental anomalies. emotional distress of a magnitude most cannot comprehend. clearly, forcibly cuffing and man handling a person in that state, without sedation or any other precautionary treatment, is asking for a big lawsuit and alot of angry people.

compassion is not a weakness.

Did anyone actually read the OPs article in full. It actually answers most of your questions.

A US Airways spokesman told the New York Daily News that Gotbaum's flight was preparing to leave when she arrived at the gate.

I believe can infer from this that she arrived at the check in counter later than what is permitted to board a flight. She apparently became irate after being denied access to the plane.

Michael Manning, a Phoenix attorney retained by Gotbaum's family, said she had "an emotional reaction" after she was denied permission to board a flight from Phoenix to Tucson, Arizona, where she planned to check herself into an alcohol treatment center

So she was flying to Tuscon for alcohol treatment. That would be where the "sick mom" comes from. Also helps support the police response of restraining the hysterical woman.

Gotbaum was handcuffed and taken to a holding cell. She continued "to be vocally and physically disruptive in the holding room," leading officers to further restrain her, Hill said

So, had Mrs. Gotbaum remained calm in the Holding area, we wouldnt be discussing this incident at all. Does noone place any blame on Mrs Gotbaum?

Now for the part most of you missed.

Officers used a 16-inch chain, called a shackle, that was attached to the bench she sat on and to the handcuffs.

So isnt it possible that its this 16 inch chain, and not the 2 inch one on the handcuffs, that caused this woman strangulation. Therefore all the posts about how its impossible to strangle yourself with handcuffs have turned out to be a bunch of people who havent bothered to read the article.



Please people..... Get all the relevant info before wasting space with your opinion on something you havent even read.

CT

[edit on 2/10/2007 by Conspiracy Theorist]

We dont need another 24/7 media hype of good cops as if airing 500000 feel good cop videos will do anything.

This attitude is pissing the rest of us off.To believe every single blatent lie is defeat you know.

dont you relize

Defend freedom it says Foriegn and domestic

Originally posted by citizen truth
Maybe she had a heart attack?

Not buying it.

I've had a massive heart attack before but I didn't try to strangle myself. Why would a heart attack cause her to do such a thing?

It makes no sense at all.

Originally posted by littleguy187
We dont need another 24/7 media hype of good cops as if airing 500000 feel good cop videos will do anything.

To believe every single blatent lie is defeat you know.

[edit on 2-10-2007 by littleguy187]

But we also dont need a bunch of videos of the bad apples to try and persuade the rest of us that all cops are bad. They are not. I support our Law Enforcement, because there are more good apples then bad apples.

But who is to say what is a lie and what isnt? You are speculating just like the rest. There is no proof that anyone is lying in this situation. And until there is proof, its all just assumption.

Unfortunately, nobody seems to have the whole story. We have bits and pieces and we are all piecing them together on how we see it.

Originally posted by Conspiracy Theorist
Did anyone actually read the OPs article in full. It actually answers most of your questions...


...Now for the part most of you missed.

Officers used a 16-inch chain, called a shackle, that was attached to the bench she sat on and to the handcuffs.

So isnt it possible that its this 16 inch chain, and not the 2 inch one on the handcuffs, that caused this woman strangulation. Therefore all the posts about how its impossible to strangle yourself with handcuffs have turned out to be a bunch of people who havent bothered to read the article.



Please people..... Get all the relevant info before wasting space with your opinion on something you havent even read.

CT

[edit on 2/10/2007 by Conspiracy Theorist]

Isn't your last statement wasting space with your opinion. At the time I and others were discussing the handcuffs, there had been no mention of the 16 inch chain, I was watching the news coverage this morning and neither the officer or reporter on Fox mentioned the fact that there was a chain, they only discussed handcuffs. It wasn't until after 4 that someone mentioned the announcement of a chain. At the time, we were discussing the available info, It appears that your statement of getting all the relevant info before wasting space comes after a day of news, therefore, you've come into the discussion late and have assumed that the info was available all day.

Aren't you doing the same as the rest of us. After all, any discussion until the conclusion of the investigation is speculation. What are you going to do tomorrow if they come out and drop another bit of information on us and someone else accuses you of posting before you've read an article.

The point I'm trying to make is that any discussion on any subject by us is speculation. We're not there, we don't have all the facts, and no matter what the "Investiagtion" conclusions are, some of us aren't going to believe it. So we're all guilty of not having all the facts and accussing anyone of not reading an article or watching a news report without proof is just as wrong. But I agree that I think I'll stop posting my thoughts of what happened until something official is determined.

This cracks me up. Such long winded posts about treating cops nicer and not all cops are bad.

Who cares! This women strangled herself with handcuffs and i want to know how the hell she did it. I have tried hand cuffs on and in my humble opinion there is no way the handcuffs strangled her.

I don't know what some people in this thread are smoking but man this site debunks advanced hoax videos and shoddy historical references with ease i'm sure there are some intelligent posters that can somehow illustrate how in the world she strangled herself with handcuffs.

When we have determined that this was not possible then we can start on what actually happened. Debates on whether all cops are bad are bogus red herrings.

Can a person strangle themselves to death with handcuffs, without going unconscious first?

Beefcake, they put a 16 inch shackle on her. I'd expect one end of the shackle is attached to the floor and the other end to her handcuffs. She was so hysterical that she probably ended up rolling around on the floor, trying to pull the shackle, twisting and turning to obviously no avail, and ended up getting caught-up and strangling herself.

We're quick to jump on stories about the police here, because lately there have been some police state actions. However, this time around I think someone's made a mountain out of a mole hill, and that person was the person who posted the story first. ''WOOOOAH COPS BEAT UP OLD WOMAN, AND KILL HER FOR SHOUTING!!!''..

Classic case of disinformation and creating something from nothing.

However, she was in a cell and should have been monitored by the police. The police were negligent.

[edit on 2-10-2007 by shaunybaby]

reply to post by shaunybaby


you are correct. no matter how you slice it, the cops are negligent on this.

as far as whoever it was beating us down for not reading up on the facts, the 16 inch chain was not mentioned first.
i think i posted on page 4 as soon as i heard it on the news.

it went from her being cuffed in the back to cuffed in the back with a 16 inch chain.

i still don't see any way she did this to herself and if by some freak accident she did, i still blame the cops.

you know, when people say they are sick, they 'just might' be really sick.
peace officers?
protect and serve?

they are supposed to protect her from herself as well.


i think we can take this another way too. if we were actually allowed some gray area thee days, they could have held the flight for a couple minutes to let her get on....
you know, at the very least maybe someone that works for the airline/airport could have went up and did a little customer service.....

why was she late?
was it cause all this retarded security was looking up her grape cause she had a bottle of mouthwash?

all this security

reply to post by shaunybaby



There is no difference between your accounting of events, and the others here. All of us take incomplete information and fill in the blanks to try and figure out what happened.

But while you fill in the blanks to support authority with a low likely hood event, and mention that pattern show brutality and lying is possible, you assume that nothing nefarious might have happened involving our law enforcement.

I would say your argument is removed from evidence of experience or patterns in society. It is either wanting to believe, or trusting your critical thinking to the source that tells you what happened.

reply to post by paraclete1


So you didnt actually read the article in the OP.

Such a long winded post when you could have just said no.

CT

Lets stop focusing on the political aspect, and the sociological aspect, and focus on the physics of it.

How exactly can you 'accidentally' choke yourself? This requires constant pressure on the larnyx even after you pass out. How exactly could this woman keep choking herself after she's lost conciousness?

Secondly, she was in a holding cell. There shouldn't have been anything in the holding cell that she could use to apply constant pressure around her throat even after she passed out. You might get as far as passing out, but then you let go, the pressure around your neck loosens and PRESTO - you return to consciousness.
Unless of course your on some kinda crazy drugs and REALLY drunk. We'll find out after her autospy I guess. But assuming for a moment that she wasn't on drugs/alchohol - I think this case screams homicide.

Just my two cents.

EDIT: anyone ever consider that maybe she had a heart attack? Maybe she was trying to get out of the cuffs (while freaking out) and simply had a heart attack. Nobody was around to save her, and it *appeared* as if she strangled herself. Sounds alot more plausible to me then she accidentally choked herself to death.

[edit on 2-10-2007 by zeeon]

Wow, okay she wasn't beaten, so it's a misleading. Such a tradgedy.

[edit on 2-10-2007 by dreamingawake]