Woman Dies after Airport Arrest

Picture this.........

Somehow the woman got herself *Off the Bench First* and while thrashing around got the two foot chain wrapped, around her neck. Her legs were stretched out and she was dangling. Due to the thrashing around she couldn't get her legs back up to support herself to take her body weight off the chain. (from being wrapped around her neck.) Therefore, she suffocated. This is just speculation it depends on how the body was positioned, when they found her.





[edit on 10/4/2007 by MountainStar]

reply to post by MountainStar


don't you think the medical examiner would be able to determine cause of death if she strangled herself?
there are all kinds of things they look for.

instead, we get to wait for tox screens so they can see what was in her body and come up with a story.

Take this information from one who knows. I have been arrested handcuffed and "processed" before. The chains are never long enough to choke yourself. No, you are not supposed to be handcuffed in a cell of any type. No, it is not possible to strangle yourself with handcuffs.


Anyone who says otherwise needs only to have another bound thier wrists then try to accomplish the goal. It is an anatomical impossiblity.

Yes she was murdered in police custody as is the norm these days.

How did we the American public ever allow this sort of thing to become common place?

i think all one has to do is think for about 3 seconds to realize she did not do this to herself....

i guess you have never seen anyone pass out drunk or done that yourself. and mauybe you have never heard of any passed out drunks drowning in their own vomit? it is similar to a coma this whacked out grandma probably assed out from the booze, fell across the chain and choked herself. no conspiracy. believe me, if you had seen her you wouldn't be all uppity about this issue.

[edit on 4-10-2007 by icybreeze]

reply to post by titorite


the chain used was 24" log...read the prior posts.

reply to post by icybreeze


if any of those things you mentioned happened, the medical examiner would have found the cause of death now huh? why didn't he?

also, the chain is now 24 inches long?
it went from cuffs, to 16 inches to two feet?

whats next i wonder?

reply to post by titorite


First, no one was murdered. give ONE reason why ANYONE would risk their job to kill this raving lunatic on a binge. Those of you who are defending this woman are alughable at best. She was a DRUNK going to rehab. Ever known a drunk? Lived with one? Taken one to rehab? I did, my father and an uncle. Trust me, there are wounds that drunks get they cannot remember, and I have seen restrained people filp out when drunk. Ever seen a drunk bounced from a bar, handcuffed and put in the back of a police car??? Waht is the difference here???? There is film that shows the entire thing that will be released in the coming days by the airport and the police.

I am still in no way advocating for the police, I am simply trying to apply common sense. Lets look at it.

1. Drunk who missed flight
2. Drunk get mad, and according to the posts, we have an eyewitness, went ape#
3. No pepper spray, batons or tasers. Only handcuffs. I mean, me and my wife use handcuffs and tahnksfully we have not choked each other..
4. She was in a holding cell, drunk and trashing. That easily could have created bruising on her body.
5. Her mom is a big name advocate in NY so this is getting press.

There is nothing suspicious...sorry...if there was I would also demand and investigation but this is nothing. It is leftist rhetoric against the administration and law enforcement. NOthing else.

The total length of the chain with handcuffs is approximately 24 inches. One of the handcuffs on the shackle was attached to the eyehook on the bench. The other handcuff of the shackle was attached to the chain of the handcuffs that were on Gotbaum. So Gotbaum was handcuffed with her hands behind her back, and those handcuffs were attached to a shackle that kept her attached to the bench.

24 inches, this is from my post. This is the official report, but just like the 9/11 commision, before reading it, people dismiss it becuase it is 'official' and we know that EVERY law enforcement officer is bad. Pathetic.

Originally posted by icybreeze
I was at the airport and watched this scene develop, ( i have and will scan and post my ticket stub to prove this) I was also interviewed by two different ocal media outlets. My inteview did not make the news because I didn't agree with the fact that this lady was a "normal" passenger and ws "victimized" by the mean 'ol security.
Let me tell you this wonam was freaking the F out! she looked to be intoxicated and was stumbling around and yelling obscenities. she was also yelling at imaginary assailants (but you wont hear about that either)

Bottom line is from where I was standing this is one case where tazing would have been justified, in fact i was yelling at them to "taze the crazy broad!" so I was not surprised to find her accidently hanging herself. she was whacked out. and i heard she was on her way to a rehab center on the plane she missed.
The only mistake here was by her husband who let her travel by herself!

as far as how she could have choked herself, she probably passed out from the booze and landed with her neck on the suspended chain.

crazy peoples should be put away so that they don't drown any more babys!

[edit on 4-10-2007 by icybreeze]

Thank you for telling your witness account. I believe it. I dont believe all cops are big bad meanies out to destroy and kill everyone. I have posted about 1 (of many) accounts I have had of beligerant passengers who should be detained and not allowed to board a plane.

The accounts you mentioned are not out of the ordinary, but unfortunately are quite ordinary.

There are CRAZY people out there, and there are people under the influence and there are flat out criminals. I get tired of all the blame being putting on our law enforcement, whom I proudly support.

Thanks again for speaking up!

So how many of you defending the police have enjoyed police custody?

If she was shackled in holding that was a gross violation of proper procedure.

Now then moveing on to a 16 inch or 24 inch shackle strangleing Mrs Gotbaum. Normaly a shackle of such length is used for the feet. I have never heard of useing such a shackle to hold a person to a bench. Normaly when you are handcuffed to a bench they simply handcuff one cuff to the eyebolt and one to your wrist. If she was handcuffed like this behind her back it was simply an exersize in brutality.

Still, if you believe the police, I want it anotomicaly explained to me how she could of possible worked the handcuffs and shackle from behind her around her neck. Those of you that think this is possible have simply never enjoyed the pleasure of custody.

Believe what you like, this woman was murdered. No doubt the officer did not mean to murder her. Call it manslaughter if you like. Point is she did not strangle herself. Not with her handcuffs. Not with a shackle hooked to a bench two feet off the ground.

I asked how did we allow this kind of thing to become common place. My answers are here in this thread, insisting that authority is honest because it is authority.

reply to post by esdad71


your whole deal seems to revolve around the fact that she was/is a drunk...that your game? try to discredit people?
she was going to get help...

lets condemn this woman cause she was an alky

as to your questions, yup...my father was a very violent drunk. he used to beat my mother....we moved out when i was 10 and i moved back in with him when i was 14. thats when he decided he would beat on me...
pretty much where i picked up my basic self defense from....fighting my father.

so yeah, been around drunk(s) and dealt with them..

cause she was drunk and irate does that mean the cops are not negligent?
don't mean that at all.

they are there to protect and serve correct? well, that would include her..

just cause she has/had a drinking problem does not make any of what went down ok...not by a long shot.

reply to post by titorite


i have 'enjoyed' being in custody and i have to say i agree with you...been saying it...

it did not go down like they are saying it went down.
no way...

if it was a 'simple strangulation', the examiner would have found it as such....as it is now, it is inconclusive....why i wonder?

oh yeah, tox results

reply to post by Boondock78



Indeed if Mrs. Gotbaum was strangled by shackle as the police alledge then she has crystal clear black and blue chain imprints around her neck.

If some fat over paid pig sat on her until she could no longer breath than finding proof of aphiziation will not be around her neck but in her abdomen.

reply to post by Boondock78


i dont se how you could say she was murdered when you werent there and didnt se how this womanwas behaving and acting. it seems obvious that you are buying into the media hype that she was a kindly grandmother and wasn't doing anything wrong but yelling.

dude, she was FREAKING out, thrashing all over the place, tripping and falling, flailing her arms scratching and hising like a wild cat!I SAW her and it is not a stretch of the imagination that this crazy lady (who did not look anything like the pretty lady in the picture the media is passing around) i'm sorry but this one, going from what i saw with mine own eyes, cannot get blamed on the rental cops.
end of story, sory to burst your conspiracy bubble, maybe John Lear can agree with you on this one, I'm done with it and moving on to the next one.

reply to post by icybreeze



How does one strangle oneself in such a position? Forget her intolerable behaviour. Did it warrent death? This is where we are in America.

I'm going to Canada, you can have this place.

reply to post by icybreeze


you can save all that cause i don't care...i read what everyone else read.
i read how it said she strangled herself...

did you witness her confined via the chains in her holding cell?
didn't think so.

so you really didn't see but maybe a small part of her outburts correct?

as far as her flying off the handle, asuming the worst, there is no way she strangled herself to death. it's not hapening.

i have already explained as well as a couple others who know a fair bit about chokes and such.
no way she chokes her self to death with restraints on.

DID NOT hapen the way they said it did and i don't care how off teh handle she was when YOU saw her.

I am not pointing out anyone as a drunk, I said she amy be and another poster eyewitness said she looked it, but as someone who came from that you should know how they can become. You do not go to rehab when you are sober, it is when you cannot function anymore, which an eyewitness who is not a LEO explained.

Titorite, I have been 'victim' in a case where I was sprayed and had my nose borken "while' handcuffed on the floor. I was trying to get my girlfriends dog from her because she was being taken by ambulance, she grabbed my arm and they said it was obstruction. I did nothing. I am fit, 6'3, about 220 now, and they jsut beat the # out of me. I never swung, and the whole time I was screaming 'hlpe me' No one did. There were over a dozen others in my house when this occured and they wachted the cops pick me up by my hands cuffed, drop me from about a foot and a half, then stuck my nose with his knee hard enough to break my glasses frames and my nose. This is after spraying me and having to get another can because they were out. I did nothing. Filed an IAD report and the next week the cops started parking down the street from my house for hours on end, at one point threatning me. But who is beleived, the paranoid or the cop. I have been there so I understand law, trust me.

I again am not sticking up for the cops, I am trying to protect the fact that we need LEO's to keep the peace, and inevitably there will be bad ones. However, this case is not it and while it is investigated because her mom has connections, a kid in a small rural town will die and NO ONE will notice. I do care...alot.

This is tradgedy but not conspiracy. I mean, would officers who BEAT her give her CPR before and AFTER she threw up in their mouths. This is another indication that she may have been intoxicated...passing out and throwing up....quite a few musicians died that way with no interference from cops.....me out

[edit on 4-10-2007 by esdad71]

[edit on 4-10-2007 by esdad71]

Originally posted by esdad71


I again am not sticking up for the cops, I am trying to protect the fact that we need LEO's to keep the peace,

when in your experience have they ever kept the peace?
every single experience i have ever had with a cop while may not be negative, it sure is not positive.

when i was 13 i was taken to the station on a randon stop caue my drivers license was suspended for 10 years...i was 13. i told the cop that.
of course it was my fathers info(we had the saem name)

when i was 7 our house got broken into. cops got there long after my dads head was cracked open and both them almost killed.

when i was about 8 my friend and i were wrestling with my dad making lots of noise. about 2 hours later the cops showed up cause they had a disturbance call. i mean, 2 hours...way to get on it.

i have been imo, mistreated by them, leaned on by them for no reason, and i see them treat others the same....

in my almost 30 years, i don't recall ever seeing them Keep the peace or STOP anything from hapening.

they are there to brace people and take them to jail. to write tickets to generate revenue when a person has a busted tail light....



keep the peace? sorry but that is a laugh

Originally posted by titorite
reply to post by icybreeze

 

How does one strangle oneself in such a position? Forget her intolerable behaviour. Did it warrent death? This is where we are in America.

I'm going to Canada, you can have this place.

I second this emotion. I don't care how ill, violent, drunk, flailing etc., etc. she was. I don't want to live in a country where it is acceptable to "step out of line" and get my life taken from me.

I have no opinion other than I believe it was simple negligence. Either the police officers themselves or their training.

And trust me.......I've been drunk, flailing and an obnoxious ass once. I'm not proud of it, but there it is. I've been shackled and there should be no reason to think you can strangle yourself in that position.

Having said that. If she was so "crazy" and "crazy acting", why was she even left alone for a single minute before she was "taken away"?

Well it ranks right up there with the guy who was hooded for biting and they put the wrong hood on him. it was supposed to be a breathable hood but wasn't. while pleading that he couldn't breathe, they sat in the squad car and let him asphixiate to death. i think he was like 17 or so, years old.

What's happening is, they see so many examples of people acting out that aren't legit, they become numb to it and assume everyone is acting out illegitamately, and so all are lumped into the same place. kid pleading that he can't breathe, equals kid pretending that he can't breathe.

mistakes, of course, do happen. it's a good lesson in not lumping people into stereotypes. which is why we also can't lump all police into a negative stereotype, because logic dictates, not all police are negligent, many are quite considerate, but there's just the occassional one in the group that can't see past the stereotype and whammo, people get hurt or dead. : /