Woman Dies after Airport Arrest

Though wouldn't she pass out after a while IF she even suffocated herself, making her release the pressure she's putting on her throat, causing her to re-awaken due to the absence of suffocation.

Originally posted by -0mega-
Though wouldn't she pass out after a while IF she even suffocated herself, making her release the pressure she's putting on her throat, causing her to re-awaken due to the absence of suffocation.

i would very much think so.....

it's not something that one can do if they can free themselves...
say you hand yourself...well, even if you change your mind, you're done...

unless you cut the blood off, it takes a bit to strangle someone to death too.

i see what Redge777 is getting at.

it was a potential hit and the airport security played into it, either wittingly or unwittingly. if unwittingly, they may end up taking the fall for it. if wittingly, we may never know. it would require someone to have access to her, while in the holding cell, unless she died from some physical malady, but then why the cuffs at her throat thing?

weird case.

Great responses ATS. The more input on this thread the more this event is becoming very very suspicious. I could see these mercs accidently killing this woman during a struggle, and then trying to claim it was a self inflicted accident. I mean seriously, she strangled herself rotating her arms over her head? I doubt it. I bet the scum will just close this case right up.
DWT

[edit on 1-10-2007 by dntwastetime]

Originally posted by dntwastetime
. I mean seriously, she strangled herself rotating her arms over her head? I doubt it.

not a chance man....
it does not take experts to realize that the woman did not strangle herself with cuffs, while cuffed....
just not happening...

musta been the fastest story they could come up with cause well, most people are stupid and believe whatever they hear...
instead of thinking about it for a few seconds....
just not happening

other potential possibility:

she WAS involved in some kind of suspicious activity.
someone came to question her in her holding cell,
used physical force to elicit answers, and accidentally
killed her in the process because she was already
sick. maybe she really died of a heart attack or something,
due to physical illlness, and the torture scenario caused her
to keel over dead.

eek. just a grisly thing, all of it.

[edit on 1-10-2007 by undo]

reply to post by roadgravel


I am just seeing if anyone might have a reason for this to be nefarious, when they said she looked terrified, and the one article that seemed to have a name snipped made me want to look.

Just checking if she was not an accident with lots of conjecture, usually they don't pan out, sometimes they do.

What are the odds that the one person in history who strangles herself with handcuffs in the custody of federal officers is connected to top level foreign navy, and US labor, just running down the names.

Its just odd for sure.

The one thing is how she called for help, and made sure everyone knew she was just a sick mother. its just really odd

[edit on 1-10-2007 by Redge777]

reply to post by undo
Now that's an interesting angle. Upset about her time schedule so that's a signal of terroristic intents. I find that believable with the current state of the police.

Originally posted by Redge777
What are the odds that the one person in history who strangles herself with handcuffs in the custody of federal officers is connected to top level foreign navy, and US labor, just running down the names.

Yes, I see your point. In today's world that is not a far fetched idea. People seem to be quite expendable in today's power struggles.

Exactly Boondock! Also CNN will not let you comment this story until they first "review"it, because they are complicit in covering up 911, as well as mass mind control for the NWO. I cannot STAND media SCUM!!!!!!!!These people need to be held accountable for many manipulations. See how they use, and abuse the "terrorist" keyword.Scum,Scum, Scum, Scum!! Man I am getting more ticked by the second.I hope to GOD this womans family has some serious pull to get this investigated properly. The Scumlords will just cover it up. If this ever happens to me, I am not going to let them get me into a holding cell it will be on, and ended right there in front of everyone.Let these mercs assault True American Warriors,and see what happens.
DWT



[edit on 1-10-2007 by dntwastetime]

Its hard to make conjecture, its just really a string of coincidences, and a weak one at that. It is that bad grammer with the missing name that was odd also. why leave out one name, and give the rest?

Originally posted by dntwastetime
Exactly Boondock! Also CNN will not let you comment this story on there website,they first have to "review"it, because they are complicit in covering up 911 as well as mass mind control for the NWO. I cannot STAND media SCUM!!!!!!!!These people need to be held accountable for many manipulations. See how they use and abuse the "terrorist"keyword.Scum, Scum, Scum!! Man I am getting more ticked by the second.I hope to God this womans family has some serious pull to get this investigated properly. The Scumlords will just cover it up. If this ever happens to me, I am not going to let them get me into a holding cell it will be on, and ended right there in front of everyone.Let these mercs assault True American Warriors,and see how it ends.
DWT

You might also take into consideration that it's their story that we are commenting on. If they are peddling disinfo, the entire thing would run the risk of being disinfo. lol How much of the article is the truth, if we suspect the source is not truthful to begin with?

What if the entire thing is BS? lol
Okay, maybe not the entire thing. But most of it? You know how some witnesses are interviewed and not others, or some interviews never make it in the report, while others do?

Or this could be one of those instances where most or all of it is true, but the truly relevant parts are left out, relevant testimony left out, etc, because it's an ongoing police investigation.

Gads, there are so many potential variables.

I feel sad for their kids.

I didn’t read anything that would make it obvious that this woman needed medical attention. Often times when people are arrested, they start coming up with medical problems to get out of going to jail. Unless there is a visible injury, the procedures for most dept’s are to arrest them first, get them medical attention later if warranted. Many times when it’s explained to the suspect that if medical personnel are called and there is no medical reason for the call, they will be charged for the response or visit, most people experience a full recovery.

It was mentioned that there are benches to be handcuffed to. That’s not true in all cases. The department I worked at didn’t get them until a few years ago. Before that, they had chairs like those in a fast food restaurant.

As for choking herself. I just recently watched a show on how US Marines are trained to stop blood flow to the brain by using their forearm and bicep muscles to bring an opponent to unconsciousness. Now if she somehow managed to get one arm over and in front of her but could not get the other one over, maybe… and this it a really big maybe, maybe the positioning of the arm forced her head over and blood flow was stopped with the forearm forcing the neck over onto the shoulder, stopping it.

I am going to stay away from who she was, who her father was, etc etc.

What interest me the most is this.....

She was handcuffed behind her back. The police are saying that people manipulate the handcuffs all the time and thats what must have happened.

Now do me this favor....

Put your hands behind your back. Interlock your fingers. If you are going to pull them in front of you (while handcuffed) you HAVE TO slide them under your butt, and under your legs. It is physically IMPOSSIBLE to bring your hands in front of you going up over your head. You would completely tear out your shoulder and blow out your rotor cuff and would more than likely pass out from pain before you even got the handcuffs tied up in your neck. The official story has more holes in it than swiss cheese. Seriously... did she bend her elbows backwards to accomplish this feat? If so, that is one trick I would have to see to believe. Being double jointed is one thing, but to actually go completely against the joint without breaking it..... well I'm sure you see my point.

So with that in mind...how does a person brings the handcuffs UNDER their legs and tie them up in their neck? Answer: It can not be done. It is physically impossible.

What type of handcuffs were these that would have a chain long enough to tie around your neck? Normally the links between each cuff are no more than an inch part. Thats a pretty cool trick. I'd like to see that also.

Bottom Line: If this article is accurate, she HAD TO HAVE help to move her arms from behind her back and over her head. Someone would have to stand behind her lifting the cuffs, even then it would cause her A LOT OF PAIN. This story does not add up at all.

Originally posted by paraclete1

As for choking herself. I just recently watched a show on how US Marines are trained to stop blood flow to the brain by using their forearm and bicep muscles to bring an opponent to unconsciousness. Now if she somehow managed to get one arm over and in front of her but could not get the other one over, maybe…

it's not even a maybe...
i know my fair shair of joint manipulations and chokes.

you are talking about a rear naked choke and even with cuffs on, you can't rear naked choke yourself out...
just not happening.
the cuffs wouldn't even allow her to get herself into position to choke herself in that manner.
also, i realize i am saying choke even though it cuts off blood, not air but that is what the hold is called

rear naked choke

Originally posted by section8citizen
It is physically IMPOSSIBLE to bring your hands in front of you going up over your head. You would completely tear out your shoulder and blow out your rotor cuff and would more than likely pass out from pain before you even got the handcuffs tied up in your neck.

that is correct for most people.

some people can dislocate their shoulders at will and do this.

i already stated that my mothers friend showed me this before. she could pop them in and out at will.

even if this lady could do that, she couldn't choke herself out.

i'm sure there are vids on the net of people dislocating their shoulders and bringing their arms over their head while cuffed.

it can be done, just not by most

reply to post by paraclete1


The human creature goes into a panic mode if death is approaching, I have been there, In many cases superhuman strength via adrenaline is attained by the survival mode of the brain. If she had 1 arm caught in a strangle more than not a human would go into panic and break free of it. Humans have fell out of planes and survived slamming into the ground. I doubt a 4 inch chain could do this. A 40+ year old woman with all that experiance, depth, and life just dying from a rotator cuff lock up. She was obviously amped up to the max. I would not bet the ranch on it.

[edit on 1-10-2007 by dntwastetime]

Originally posted by paraclete1
I didn’t read anything that would make it obvious that this woman needed medical attention. Often times when people are arrested, they start coming up with medical problems to get out of going to jail. Unless there is a visible injury, the procedures for most dept’s are to arrest them first, get them medical attention later if warranted. Many times when it’s explained to the suspect that if medical personnel are called and there is no medical reason for the call, they will be charged for the response or visit, most people experience a full recovery.

It was mentioned that there are benches to be handcuffed to. That’s not true in all cases. The department I worked at didn’t get them until a few years ago. Before that, they had chairs like those in a fast food restaurant.

As for choking herself. I just recently watched a show on how US Marines are trained to stop blood flow to the brain by using their forearm and bicep muscles to bring an opponent to unconsciousness. Now if she somehow managed to get one arm over and in front of her but could not get the other one over, maybe… and this it a really big maybe, maybe the positioning of the arm forced her head over and blood flow was stopped with the forearm forcing the neck over onto the shoulder, stopping it.

Women are a bit different than men. They can have any number of maladies that still allow them to basically function in every day life, but which can be completely debilitating under special circumstances. For example, let's say your favorite female person in the whole wide world, starts going threw menopause. A bunch of weird chemical crap is going on in their bodies, right about then and it lasts for months to years. It can cause all manner of related maladies and it often creates chemical inbalances in the brain and organs. Every woman's body is different, so some have a more severe reaction than others. Yet, as common as it is in the life span of women, it still runs the risk of making a normally calm and sweet individual into an ill and illogical individual. These people don't need police intervention. They need medical help, like she said.



[edit on 1-10-2007 by undo]

Yes he is describing the rear naked choke, but there are a few variations of that. One of which is instead of the forearm being across the throat, it is against the side of the neck or the carotid artery and the bicep is against the other side of the neck. It slows the blood flow and you will pass out.

STILL........... how do you pull your arms from behind your back and over your head to accomplish this? IT CAN NOT BE DONE.

Originally posted by elevatedone
Seems to me this isn't the officers fault.

As always, quick to jump to conclusions when there is always more to the story.

They handcuffed her and put her in a holding cell as they should have.


For those that don't go read the entire story... here's why she was cuffed and placed in holding..

Airport witnesses told police Friday that Gotbaum was "very loud, she was yelling and screaming and running around the concourse area," said Hill. Police "could not calm her down" and "it was very difficult for them to get her handcuffed. Arresting officers "did not have to pepper spray her or [use a TASER device] on her or anything else," Hill said.

A US Airways spokesman told the New York Daily News that Gotbaum's flight was preparing to leave when she arrived at the gate.

Traveling alone, Gotbaum rebooked on a following flight, but "she became extremely irate, apparently running up and down the gate area," airline spokesman Derek Hanna told the Daily News.

I am sorry, but it seems highly unlikely she could choke herself to death while handcuffed. The fact that she was heard to be screaming after they took her tot he holding cell is evidence in itsellf that they were physically trying to quiet her and they did, she died!. You are either a police oficer or someone who believes anything told to them by authorities. The entire article does not give much info other than she was upset for being denied to board a plane because of our Nazi style laws that have followed since 911, in other words a police state.