Eighty thousand deserters in Ukraine

originally posted by: Oldcarpy2
a reply to: charlest2


Anything useful to add to what the adults are discussing?

Yes. It's time for you to change your diaper.

a reply to: charlest2

I said "useful".

Keyboard warrior.

I bet you wouldn't talk like you do direct to people's actual faces?

Anything to add to the discussion apart from playground insults?

originally posted by: Oldcarpy2
a reply to: charlest2

"I have been siting here typing out a long diatribe but have deleted it".

Thank God for small mercies 😁.

If I had published It, it wouldn't have any effect on you anyway. Nothing to this point has.

a reply to: charlest2

Diatribes generally don't have a positive effect on folk.

a reply to: Oldcarpy2
I said "useful".

I thought I was being useful considering you diaper is overloaded and spilling down your legs.

You see, I am full of one line zingers too. You don't know when to quit! We could sit here and sling zingers all day and you would walk away from this butt hurt and raw before it's finished.

a reply to: charlest2

"We could sit here and sling zingers all day."

"We"?

I'll leave that to you.

I prefer to talk to the adults in the room.

a reply to: Oldcarpy2

You set yourself up to be kicked in the face, dude.

a reply to: RickyD

It started in 2013/14 when the US engineered a coup they hand picked a puppet government.

But that simply did not happen.

The elected Ukrainian parliament dismissed Yanukovych because he abandoned the pro-EU policies he was elected to enact in favour of hugely unpopular pro-Russian policies. Its generally accepted that Yanukovych did so as a result of huge bribes he received from Putin's administration.
The Ukrainian people elected him because of his pro-EU manifesto - Soros et al did not manipulate him into accepting the bribes, betraying the Ukrainian people and provoking their anger. Nor did they influence the increasing corruption, abuse of human rights and influence of oligarchs that occurred during Yanukovych's rule. Nor did they order the killing of over 100 protesters during the protests against Yanukovych.

www.abovetopsecret.com...

Why are so many Defenders of Freedom, Liberty and The Constitution now riddled with self-hatred and support a repressive, authoritarian dictator who is the very antithesis of those values and principles they allege to hold so dear?

Very sad to see such a decline.

a reply to: Oldcarpy2

As always you ignore what the majority of eastern Ukraine wants in favor of your bias and write it out as though the majority of Ukrainians all over the country want to distance themselves from Russia. They are no longer the old Soviets from the times you speak of...and a huge portion of Ukrainians want those Russian ties. Maybe less now after Ukraine's campaign to kill off those who wanted to keep clise relations with Russia. The UK is quite far from Ukraine...and Russia shares a boarder and many in Ukraine are of Russian decent...I would say they have much more interests there than the UK or Germany for that matter.

Again...I am not saying I like Russia...I sure wouldn't live there. I am saying and trying to point out to those who seem to gloss over that there are reasons behind all this that we in the west caused with our meddling ...which is par for the course. There was no way ever that Putin would allow the west...and especially the US to puppet Ukraine instead of them...thats what forced Russia's hand here. If it happened on our doorstep or the UKs doorstep we or the UK would do the same damn thing.

a reply to: Freeborn

Happy to discuss that with you as soon as you come back to reality and stop trying to revise reality to fit your bias.

a reply to: Freeborn

That Yanukovych in full:

www.britannica.com...

"Yanukovych drew additional ire from his opponents when he stated that the Great Famine of 1932–33 (a Soviet-era famine in which four to five million Ukrainians died) should not be considered an act of genocide carried out by Soviet authorities against the Ukrainian people, as former president Yushchenko had declared."

I don't think that went down too well.

Nor did his embezzling some $70 billion.

"Ukrainian Prime Minister Arseniy Yatsenyuk accused Yanukovych and his associates of embezzling some $70 billion in state assets and transferring the funds to foreign banks. Authorities in Switzerland, Austria, and Liechtenstein moved to freeze assets and accounts linked to Yanukovych’s family, and prosecutors in Geneva opened a money-laundering investigation. Yanukovych himself denied the existence of any foreign accounts. In January 2015 Interpol placed the deposed leader on its wanted list in connection with those charges."

He fled to Russia.

But, of course, the popular uprising against him had nothing to do with any of that and it was just a CIA planned coup.

Pass the sick bag....

a reply to: RickyD

Majority of Eastern Ukrainians?

From the source I linked to above:

"Protests spread to eastern Ukraine, traditionally Yanukovych’s stronghold, and violence in the Maidan escalated dramatically. More than 70 people were killed in clashes with police and security forces in February 2014, as the remaining support for Yanukovych and his administration crumbled."

a reply to: Freeborn

Why are so many Defenders of Freedom, Liberty and The Constitution now riddled with self-hatred

I don't hate myself. Actually, I am quite proud of myself for standing up for the reasons quoted above. Our governments have transformed into the antithesis of what you state above. Our governments are now the antithesis of defending freedom and democracy. A close and realistic examination of our Democratic party proves this truth. They have transformed from the party of the people into the party of lies, deception, greed of power, corruption, actually, the party of pure evil now intent and determined to enslave us all. Our Republican party is in league with these aspirations and not far behind in their lusts. Actually, they, the Democratic party, were never the party of the people. They were the party of the KKK from their inception.

Probably yours as well, but our constitution has been fully usurped and ripped to shreds now. Do you not see and realize the utter lawlessness of our governments now? It has been a creeping lawlessness from the top down for generations. They have bastardized our criminal justice system to the point it is no longer just. It's now a tool to suppress decent and threats to their sovereign authority. The lawfare and persecution of their opponents should prove this to you.

They have so inflamed their deluded masses to violence, even to the point of trying to murder their opponents at the very least, to possibly even orchestrating this attempted assassination, like they did the Kennedys and Martin Luther King.

On and on, but what for?

a reply to: RickyD

Putin is quite the revisionist when it comes to Ukraine/Russo history:

www.rochester.edu...

But don't take my word for it.

Hear it from an actual Professor of History:

"It’s a complicated history. But I want to be clear that what’s going on in Ukraine now is a brutal act of aggression with absolutely no justification,” says Matthew Lenoe, an associate professor of history at the University of Rochester, who is an expert on Russian and Soviet history, Stalinist culture and politics, the history of mass media, and Soviet soldiers in World War II."

a reply to: RickyD

If it happened on our doorstep or the UKs doorstep we or the UK would do the same damn thing.

Ireland was under English and/or British rule for about 700 years until it became Independent in 1922.
There still remains very close ties between the UK and The Republic of Ireland and many people from all the nations of these islands share mixed blood and heritage. We also have unique and distinct customs whilst also sharing many more.

Ireland is very much its own country - which is right and proper.

But using the same arguments people use for defending Putin's invasion of Ukraine would you or anyone else here on ATS support the UK if they were to directly interfere and meddle in the internal governance of the RoI?
If the UK was to fund armed agitators from NI to stir up trouble, agitate and carry out acts of terrorism with the specific aim of provoking a response from The Irish government?
If the UK government was to bribe the elected Taoiseach to abandon the manifesto he was elected on and in turn become nothing more than a puppet for the UK government?
Would you say it was no-one else's business if the UK decided to send troops into the RoI and invade it under the lie that it somehow posed a threat?
Would you say that all of that was ok because it's the UK's 'sphere of influence'?

Of course you wouldn't....and neither would any right minding individual who had even a shred of common decency and sense of right and wrong.

Ireland is Ireland and Ireland will do as Ireland see's fit - and that is as it should be for ALL independent countries.

Now replace Ireland with Ukraine and the UK with Russia and somehow by some change of reckoning and thinking all the above is ok and perfectly acceptable.
Why?

a reply to: charlest2

"The have so inflamed their deluded masses to violence, even to the point of trying to murder their opponents at the very least, to possibly even orchestrating this attempted assassination, like they did the Kennedys and Martin Luther King."

You do realize that Putin has quite some form when it comes to offing his political rivals and opponents?

a reply to: Oldcarpy2

Drawing on hundreds of newly available, top-secret KGB and party Central Committee documents, historian Matthew E. Lenoe reexamines the 1934 assassination of Leningrad party chief Sergei Kirov.

Interests: Russian and Soviet History; Stalinist Culture and Politics; History of Mass Media; Soviet Soldiers in World War II; Russia in East Asia; Leninism in World History

He is a historian. That does not qualify him as an expert on modern day Russia. His expertise is in what was. Not what is.

That's where your mind is. In the past.


Your little island nation would be a satellite state of Germany if not for Russia's participation to defeat Hitler. They suffered greatly for your freedoms.


But you like to ignore that history.

a reply to: charlest2

Never heard of the enormous sacrifices made by our Merchant and Royal Navies during WW2 keeping Russia supplied by Arctic convoys, without which Russia would not have prevailed without the support of this "little island nation"?

We did our bit and your BS is an insult to all the Brits and Allies that gave their lives for our tomorrows.

Did Russia assist us during the Battle of Britain?

Or on the beaches of Normandy?

"Matthew Lenoe, an associate professor of history at the University of Rochester, who is an expert on Russian and Soviet history, Stalinist culture and politics, the history of mass media, and Soviet soldiers in World War II."

I rather think that he knows more about history than you do.

Which, judging by your post, is very little.

"Deny Ignorance".

Not, embrace it.

a reply to: Oldcarpy2

There is no shortage of evil in this world and it's not all limited to Russia and Putin. For the Russian people, Putin is their patriot and protector. For us, he is the epitome of evil. To us, Hamas and Hezbollah are terrorist organizations. For Muslims, they are freedom fighters, heroes and patriots defending their native lands and cultures. One person's terrorists are another person's patriots.

For many in that region, "WE ARE THE GREAT SATAN". And I think I'm beginning to see their point of view toward us.


Our government has become a cabal of ravenous murders.

a reply to: charlest2

"For many in that region, "WE ARE THE GREAT SATAN". And I think I'm beginning to see their point of view toward us.."

Then go and join Hamas or move to Iran?