Shooting Audio Visual Analysis, Butler, PA

New ATS threads on the situation:

Secret Service failures prompts calls for agent recruitment changes...again

Would-be Assassin Crooks Geo-tracked to DC, FBI Center

Newsweek states Trump was not shot - cites FBI Director Wray

a reply to: Lazy88

With the bullet captured in media that hit Trump’s ear? Any proof someone shooting from inside the building

This photograph was taken by a well known photographer. It does show a trajectory path coming from the area around building 6, the building the Kid was on. I don't see enough resolution to determine exactly what part of building 6 the shot came from. In combination with a larger 3D model / argumentized reality model of the event, this photo can help verify the analysis.

Two question about this photograph, how did the photographer know to turn his camera onto high speed mode? Is it common for this photographer to use this camera setting? It does go through a lot of data quickly when used.

a reply to: Lazy88

It seems with the shot that hit Trump lines up with the position held by Crooks and the rupture in the equipment in the video provided. Is that false?

What is known:

- The first shot hits Trump in the ear.
- James, Nephew and David got hit with the first 2 shots fired. James falls first.
- Nephew, David and the railing of the bleachers got hit from one of the shots. It is likely this shot also hit the machinery behind it.

What is unknown:

- When did Corey get hit.
- How many times did the fork lift equipment that sprayed oil get hit and where?

It is possible that only the first 3 shots where aimed at Trump. With what happened with the next 5 shots where they even aimed at Trump with the lack of collateral damage done that day? The very fast rate of fire from this burst would make any kind of accuracy meaningless at such a distance.



One problem with this analysis is that it does get close, but misses the position David was in, leaning up against the side rail of the bleachers.

originally posted by: kwaka

This photograph was taken by a well known photographer. It does show a trajectory path coming from the area around building 6, the building the Kid was on. I don't see enough resolution to determine exactly what part of building 6 the shot came from. In combination with a larger 3D model / argumentized reality model of the event, this photo can help verify the analysis.

Like a politician, you act like you answered the question without actually answering the question.

Between Trump on a stage at least 4 feet tall, with Trump standing 6 feet tall. And the way the piece of equipment was hit behind Trump. With the bullet captured in media that hit Trump’s ear? Any proof someone shooting from inside the building. When people were watching the building when they saw Crooks. Looks like the trajectory of the bullet that clipped Trump was from Crooks on the roof.

originally posted by: kwaka
Two question about this photograph, how did the photographer know to turn his camera onto high speed mode? Is it common for this photographer to use this camera setting? It does go through a lot of data quickly when used.

What?

Do you understand photography equipment at all?

And what do you mean “high speed”? A bullet I’m guessing without looking it up is about 1/4 of an inch long left a three foot streak in the photo. You could use the bullet speed from ballistic tables and the size of the streak in the photo to get a good estimate of the shutter speed.

Anyway. I was chasing dragonflies the other day, trying to get a good closeup with my new macro lens. There was enough sunlight to get shutter speeds over 1/300th of a second at iso 100. If I went to iso 400 for film, I could have easily gotten shutter speeds over 1/600 of a second. ISO is just a manner of selection on digital cameras.

My little cheep SLR does bursts of around 4 photos, and I use it since digital photos changed the game. Just delete what you don’t want. Not limited to 24 pictures on a roll of film.

It can also do slow motion video, time lapse video, or just plane video.

So what do you mean “high speed mode”?

originally posted by: kwaka
a reply to: Lazy88


One problem with this analysis is that it does get close, but misses the position David was in, leaning up against the side rail of the bleachers.

Because people are blue statues? And don’t breath, move, itch, swat at flies, fidget, clap, jump and cheer. Have delayed reactions. It’s on video, Trump’s ear was pierced, and it took a second or so for Trump to raise his arm after getting hit. Between what shots were fired, with what shots hit who, with you relying on the human nervous system to react.

a reply to: Lazy88

So what do you mean “high speed mode”?

With reports about the camera used to take that photograph, it can function at a frame rate of 1/8000th / second. With the mode that camera was at the time of the photograph, it was set to 1/4000th of a second. Saving at 24 frames per second would be lucky to capture that image.

a reply to: Lazy88

It’s on video, Trump’s ear was pierced, and it took a second or so for Trump to raise his arm after getting hit.

Shot #1:
Time: 0 seconds


Shot #2:
Time : 0.8 seconds


Shot #3:
Time: 1.5 seconds


This is a rough approximate position Trump was in when each of the first three shots are heard. I have not defined the specific frame. It is true that only shot #1 hit Trump.
Source

originally posted by: kwaka
a reply to: Lazy88

So what do you mean “high speed mode”?

With reports about the camera used to take that photograph, it can function at a frame rate of 1/8000th / second. With the mode that camera was at the time of the photograph, it was set to 1/4000th of a second. Saving at 24 frames per second would be lucky to capture that image.

Vs how many cameras taking pictures at that exact moment.

I run the numbers. For a three feet steak in the frame, the shutter speed had to be only 1/1000 of a second.


This is the specs on canons second cheapest mirrorless SLR.

Continuous Shooting

Electronic Shutter
Up to 15 fps for up to 28 Frames (JPEG) / 7 Frames (Raw)
Electronic Shutter
Up to 12 fps for up to 42 Frames (JPEG) / 7 Frames (Raw)

Internal Recording Modes
H.264/H.265/MPEG-4
UHD 4K (3840 x 2160) at 23.98/25/29.97 fps
1920 x 1080 at 23.98/25/29.97/50/59.94/100/120 fps


Shutter Speed

Electronic Shutter
1/8000 Up to 30 Seconds
Electronic Front Curtain Shutter
1/4000 Up to 30 Seconds

www.bhphotovideo.com... -rnWyhLUF&gclid=EAIaIQobChMIyNbM6r_EhwMVvzYIBR3G5C8GEAQYASABEgJoFPD_BwE

I like how conspiracists take things well within the capabilities of the cheapest equipment around, and try to make it sound like magic.

a reply to: kwaka

What is time based off of. You don’t talk in shots. You post in terms of something like 24 frames per second and frame sequence number.

So what is the images from as in equipment in what mode. What was the frame rate. And what is the frame reference number.

This video is a longer version of what was released in this thread:

Grassley comes in clutch with some body cam for us to examine

At 4:50 min in this video, one of the officers responding to the Kid on the roof counts 5 shell castings in the area.

As 24:00 min in the video they count the empty shell casting again and find 8.

a reply to: kwaka

Like some shells rolled down the roof? Or just off frame. You have any idea how far a AR throws casings.

Asked you a question. Between Crooks position, the photo of the bullet, and the equipment being hit. Is there any evidence this trajectory is wrong.

a reply to: kwaka

I thought you actually referenced a frame by frame analysis.

You just took screen shots of a video with no established starting point? Screenshot what you wanted in a timer that only counts to whole seconds. Right there in your pictures. And somehow was able to establish fractions of a second analysis?


You’re kidding, right.

a reply to: kwaka

First shot in your provided video is heard right at one second?

So.

The speed of sound is roughly 1,100 fps

A good midrange speed of a .223 bullet is 2,800 fps

The supersonic bullet was fired and going down range by the time the sound got to the microphone of the video. The bullet was supersonic, so that is a fact no matter what.

The bullet could cover 160 yards to Trump in .1714 seconds. So. It took about a second for Trump’s nervous system to register he was hit and react.

a reply to: Lazy88

Like some shells rolled down the roof?

The tapered shape of the shells prevents them rolling all the way down the roof in a way a round ball would.

Between Crooks position, the photo of the bullet, and the equipment being hit. Is there any evidence this trajectory is wrong.

The reduced audio footprint of the first three shots compared to the next 5 shots.

a reply to: Lazy88

The bullet could cover 160 yards to Trump in .1714 seconds. So. It took about a second for Trump’s nervous system to register he was hit and react.

False. The snap or supersonic shockwave is first heard as the bullet passes. The sound of the gun arrived 0.22 seconds later, placing the range of the shot about 450 feet away. Link

a reply to: kwaka

Ok?

Which has what to do with you somehow getting down to tenths of a second with screenshots for a video time marked in whole seconds. With the bullet already down range and well on its way before the microphone would ever pickup the shot. With the bullet traveling 160 yards in .1714 seconds if the speed of the bullet was around 2,800 fps at 100 yards.

And that’s an actually conservative. Muzzle velocities are usually faster. And the bullets decelerate overtime. So distance from the shooter to the microphone is not a linear function.

223 Ballistics

www.ammunitiontogo.com...

So. The bullet probably got to Trump faster than .1714 seconds.




What speed are you using for the bullet and why.

originally posted by: kwaka
a reply to: Lazy88

450 feet away

Shrugs.

450 feet / 2800 fps = .161 seconds to travel 450 feet at 2800 fps.

Since most muzzle speeds are faster than the speed at 100 yards, wouldn’t the bullet reach 450 feet faster than my guesstimation and faster than your .22 seconds.

a reply to: kwaka



Unless the exact round used is known, and there was no modifications, there is a wide margin of error by just presuming the speed of the bullet.

a reply to: Lazy88

With the bullet already down range and well on its way before the microphone would ever pickup the shot.

The gun is known as an AR15. As for what kind of round exactly was used is still unknown. Different bullet types, weights and grains used all make a difference. An estimate of 0.16 - 0.17 seconds for the bullet to travel from building 6 to Trumps location is reasonable.

What takes 0.22 seconds is the sound of the gunfire to travel from building 6 to Trumps location.

What happens at Trumps location first is feeling his ear damaged and hearing the supersonic shockwave as the bullet passes. 0.22 seconds later he hears the gunfire of the first shot. By the time the second shot passes Trump 0.8 seconds later, Trump is in the position of checking the damage to his ear with his hand from the first shot.

Your theory that Trump only has the sound from the gunfire to respond to the shooting is incorrect. You are missing to account for the supersonic snap that travels out from the speed of the bullet and the injury.

a reply to: Lazy88

Between Crooks position, the photo of the bullet, and the equipment being hit. Is there any evidence this trajectory is wrong.

The photo of the bullet is shot #1 from the position Trump is in.

The position Trump's head is in to take damage to the ear, but miss the back of his head points to the second floor of building 6.



How James responds to injury before David also points to shot #1 from the second floor of building 6.

How the first three shots are not as loud as the next 5 shots points to the first three shots coming from an inside location and the next 5 shots from an outside location.