Global Flood explains Oil Deposits and Geological layers

Cooperton,

You say the water came out of vents but the bible says it fell as rain. Is the bible wrong?

And you guys are all so dumb. Obviously the water did not need to evaporate or be sucked back into the vents. It would have just run off the edges of the flat earth!

Seriously though, flood myths are so widespread that it is likely that a major flood did occur sometime in prehistory and the bible just retells one version. The most likely event that the myths describe is the draining of the Black Sea into the Mediterranean Sea through the Bosporus near present day Istanbul. It's even possible the event played out over several years so that someone could have foreseen it and built a boat to rescue people. Most humans probably lived in that area then dispersed to the far corners of the globe after the flood, which was not global in the modern sense but affected most humans so it could be called global to the human race.

The timing would have had to have been before at least 50,000 years ago because the Australian Aborigines have the same myth and they migrated to Australia at least 50,000 years ago.

Leave geology to geologists. The earth is 4 billion years old. Humans never lived with dinosaurs. The earth is not flat. The bible is not a science textbook. It is a collection of myths (first 5 books of OT), laws, poetry, and history. Apply Occam's razor.

a reply to: liberalskeptic

Leave geology to geologists. The earth is 4 billion years old. Humans never lived with dinosaurs. The earth is not flat. The bible is not a science textbook. It is a collection of myths (first 5 books of OT), laws, poetry, and history. Apply Occam's razor.

This times a thousand. Religion can still have positive application too.

Just not in explaining the earth science part so much...

What makes me laugh is they'll take something like "There's 3 times as much water in the Earth's mantle as on the surface", and knowing nothing about temperature and compressive forces at those depths, assume there's liquid water down there sloshing around.

You can scream, "IT'S INSIDE CRYSTAL. IT'S CALLED F*CKING POLYMORPHISM!", and all they'll retain is "There's 3X as much water inside there earth!"

They think there are seriously these vents that can open up and let all that 'water' teach those damn nephilim to make a bunch of demigod hybrid children.

It's hilarious. "You know it's plate subduction that pushes this ocean water into the mantle, and it then hydrates rock in the upper mantle. That's how it works. Anyone?"

Water is not just present as a separate phase in the ground. Seawater percolates into oceanic crust and hydrates igneous rocks such as olivine and pyroxene, transforming them into hydrous minerals...

It's called the deep water cycle.

en.m.wikipedia.org...

An upper bound on the amount of water in the mantle can be obtained by considering the amount of water that can be carried by its minerals (their storage capacity). This depends on temperature and pressure. There is a steep temperature gradient in the lithosphere where heat travels by conduction, but in the mantle the rock is stirred by convection and the temperature increases more slowly (see figure).[13] Descending slabs have colder than average temperatures.

The mantle can be divided into the upper mantle (above 410 km depth), transition zone (between 410 km and 660 km), and the lower mantle (below 660 km). Much of the mantle consists of olivine and its high-pressure polymorphs. At the top of the transition zone, it undergoes a phase transition to wadsleyite, and at about 520 km depth, wadsleyite transforms into ringwoodite, which has the spinel structure. At the top of the lower mantle, ringwoodite decomposes into bridgmanite and ferropericlase

It's like we are freaking lying, and it's us, not them that live in these hilarious worlds of pseudointellectual fantasy, where you don't actually need to understand the fundamentals.

My science interests are really boring. Blame Aspergers, my Father, and The Gem and Mineral Show. Just don't parade this bit of apologist blathering as educational, or permit it to talk down to those that actually grasp how these processes work.

GEOLOGY IS NOT EXPLAINED BY A FLOOD NARRATIVE.

Hilarious and maddening. It's great if it gives people some stories of parable, but maddening when it asserts its authority on grounds of its righteous abstraction.

a reply to: cooperton

Ahh still supposing that the Bible was referring to the same taxonomy we use today? They weren't.

I think you are missing the salient point buddy.

It doesn't matter if it's for 5000 animal pairs or 5 million animal pairs.

How do you fish, in what i imagine to be a serious storm, from a 50ft top deck, with only 8 people on board?

They simply are not going to be able to cater to such numbers.

Or make a lot of the animals eat fish that may not be nutritionally compatible with their dietary requirements.

Were Noah and his brethren also ""master fishermen"" used to prowling the deep ocean for massive hauls as well as ""veterinary nutritionists"" among their many other implied skills?

These 8 people are doing a lot on this imaginary 440ft long boat.

For comparison onboard the Titanic which was around twice the size of the alleged ark there were more than 900 crew members required to maintain the vessel and take care of the passengers, and they were all human, without the additional needs and requirements that come in tow with animals of all sorts of shape size and variety.

a reply to: cooperton

hromosome count is a clear indicator of what 'kind' an animal is. It appears as though apes are a 'kind' of animal because they all have 48 chromosomes. Feline-kind all has 38 chromsomes. Wolf-kind has 78 chromosomes

So you're saying Noah only needed those handful (5000?) of animals and all other species of animals magically evolved over the next few thousand years and not the millions of years Evolution took?
I see how you twist the facts to fit your religious pesudo-science.
You picked wolves because you knew Dogs evolved from wolves. But maned Wolfs have 76 where as a dog has 78, or a Fennec fox having 64? You do know about Donkeys and Horses having differing chromosomes and what happens there?
So how many "kinds" of Feline did Noah take? Because big cats aren't the same as the cat that Humans domesticated?
I see you also picked Ape "kind" having 48 chromosones, what about Monkeys, because Monkeys can't cross breed unlike Noahs wife and sons?
The list of 'animals' that can't be just breed to make 'new animals' because of the time it took for them EVOLVE to be genetically different is massive.

Does anyone know whether the platypus was considered a "clean" or "unclean" animal? And did it hitch a ride on a koala for the thousands of miles (and many years) of walking and swmiming to reach the Middle East (and then back home again afterwards)?

originally posted by: daskakik

Come off it, you were trying to make it seem like the basis of that thread, and probably most of your threads, is an analysis not biased by your religion. Paraphrasing "I'm not talking about the god of the bible, I'm talking about an apex creator".

I was not biased towards Christ when I began my search for answer, it just so happens that all the objective assessment of the scientific world made me realize the secular narrative is vastly incorrect. Now I know that by assuming Christ is correct, that I will be able to go down a trail of many realizations that connect the dots to make a more cohesive picture, rather than just waiting for scientists to tell me what I am.

Well, there is still sin so apparently the surgery, despite being FUBAR, didn't really work.

Like I said, do you even stop to think what you are typing?

Sin eventually re-entered the world. When you do a surgical procedure on someone with free will, and cure them, but they eventually go back to mcdonalds and coca-cola, is it the surgeons fault that the diseases re-emerge? No.

Actually, I don't view it that way at all. It is stories like Noah's that place great value on death and punishment and the kindness of the apex creator to warn the koalas to move from Australia to the middle east so they won't die.

Me, I'm ready to go at the drop of a hat.

Would you let someone into your house who hates you, and continually berates you and your friends, a total ideological enemy?

originally posted by: Kurokage

So you're saying Noah only needed those handful (5000?) of animals and all other species of animals magically evolved over the next few thousand years and not the millions of years Evolution took?

Your idea of evolution continually plagues your ability to accept some of these very possible tenets of biology. Populations of organisms can and will adapt to various environmental cues, it is pre-disposed in our biology. Consider skin tone, and the various alleles that were always present in the human genome:



White or black skin tone is not "evolution" it is merely the emergence of certain traits that were pre-disposed in a genome to allow populations of organisms to be able to adapt to environmental variability, such as high melanin content for populations living in high sun exposure near the equator. The same with the variety of bears which all have the same chromosome count but have had phenotypic adaptations to the various environments that they migrated towards.

I see how you twist the facts to fit your religious pesudo-science.

Chromosomes count is not pseudo-science. You just call anything pseudo-science that shows that lady luck didn't kiss a frog into a human over time.

You picked wolves because you knew Dogs evolved from wolves. But maned Wolfs have 76 where as a dog has 78

It turns out there can be viable hybrids between animals with varying chromosome numbers, such as "dogxim", a wild animal that was the mix between a wolf and a fox.

, or a Fennec fox having 64?

Then it's a different "kind". Too far to be related to the primordial fox or dog

 
You do know about Donkeys and Horses having differing chromosomes and what happens there?

Same thing as dogxim and other natural hybrids. Sometimes animals fall in love and it ends up working out for their kids.

So how many "kinds" of Feline did Noah take?

Probably two pairs, one with 38 and one with 36 chromosomes

I see you also picked Ape "kind" having 48 chromosones, what about Monkeys, because Monkeys can't cross breed unlike Noahs wife and sons?

anything with a vastly different chromosome count would be a different 'kind'.

The list of 'animals' that can't be just breed to make 'new animals' because of the time it took for them EVOLVE to be genetically different is massive.

I will respect your belief.

originally posted by: andy06shake

I think you are missing the salient point buddy.

It doesn't matter if it's for 5000 animal pairs or 5 million animal pairs.

Yes it does. 5000 animals pairs is physical possible in a 1.8 million cubic meter ark, 5 million animal pairs is not possible.

How do you fish, in what i imagine to be a serious storm, from a 50ft top deck, with only 8 people on board?

All hands on deck I suppose, they also probably created some creative leverages systems that helped handle the load on the net.

Or make a lot of the animals eat fish that may not be nutritionally compatible with their dietary requirements.

Plenty of plants being grown on the ark for the picky eaters.

Were Noah and his brethren also ""master fishermen"" used to prowling the deep ocean for massive hauls as well as ""veterinary nutritionists"" among their many other implied skills?

It doesn't take a veterinarian degree to see if an animal eats something and responds positively or not.

These 8 people are doing a lot on this imaginary 440ft long boat.

well, they literally have all day.

For comparison onboard the Titanic which was around twice the size of the alleged ark there were more than 900 crew members required to maintain the vessel and take care of the passengers, and they were all human, without the additional needs and requirements that come in tow with animals of all sorts of shape size and variety.

Yeah because its a combustion powered machine with various controls required to navigate and serve all the rich people. The Ark didn't need to steer, or cater to luxury.

a reply to: cooperton

All 8 hands on deck?

For comparison most large fishing trawlers in this day of age can have crews exceeding 100 skilled individuals. And thats with some serious level of automation and technology on board to help them do their jobs efficiently.

Maybe Noah had some doctor-dolittle skills and got the animals to help them fish for the 10,008?

As to plenty of plants being grown on the deck, how does that work in raging seas and storms?

And who is taking care of the farming aspects of the journey if these 8 super fishermen are providing food for the masses below all day long?

Any idea how much fish it would take to feed 10,000 animals(your estimate) per day?

Im not sure myself but my bet is its a hell of a lot.

originally posted by: Degradation33

What makes me laugh is they'll take something like "There's 3 times as much water in the Earth's mantle as on the surface", and knowing nothing about temperature and compressive forces at those depths, assume there's liquid water down there sloshing around.

You can scream, "IT'S INSIDE CRYSTAL. IT'S CALLED F*CKING POLYMORPHISM!", and all they'll retain is "There's 3X as much water inside there earth!"

It's called a supercritical fluid. At the temperature and pressure exhibited in the mantle of the earth, water would be in the supercritical fluid state.



The supercritical state is quite amazing, it behaves both like a liquid and a gas, able to permeate through semi-porous geology:

"A supercritical fluid (SCF), at a temperature and pressure above its critical point... can effuse through porous solids like a gas. SCFs can be used as solvents in various industrial and laboratory processes."

This is the state of the water we are referring to in this layer. When the pressure was released, it turned to liquid state and was expunged from these layers.

originally posted by: andy06shake
a reply to: cooperton

All 8 hands on deck?

I doubt Noah, his wife, children and their wives were all 1-handed!

For comparison most large fishing trawlers in this day of age can have crews exceeding 100 skilled individuals. And thats with some serious level of automation and technology on board to help them do their jobs efficiently.[/'quote]

They don't need to sell any fish, they keep it all simply to feed their boat. Assuming each organism on average needs about 500 calories (assuming the average weight of all organisms is about the size of a dog), requiring about 2,500,000 calories per day for the ship, and fish have 2 calories per gram, you would need 1,250kg of fish per day. That would be just 5 bluefin tuna to feed the whole boat.

There are methods of fishing, such as driftnets, that are banned for commercial use because they are so effective lol.

a reply to: cooperton

Your idea of evolution continually plagues your ability to accept some of these very possible tenets of biology. Populations of organisms can and will adapt to various environmental cues, it is pre-disposed in our biology.

I think that should be squarely aimed at you and the way you keep trying to twist real science to meet your agenda. Noah didn't just dump these animals out and suddenly in a few thousand years millions of different species appeared. It took millions of years which has scientific proof, no matter what you say.

It turns out there can be viable hybrids between animals with varying chromosome numbers, such as "dogxim", a wild animal that was the mix between a wolf and a fox.

And again, you're very wrong in your understanding of the actual science here.

Because domestic dogs have 78 chromosomes and pampas foxes have 74, the scientists are confident the specimen, which they named "dogxim," was a hybrid between both species with a total of 76 chromosomes.

It was a dog and a Pampas fox, so genetically closer...

the emergence of certain traits

You mean evolution!!!
Stop passing off your twisted idea of science as the facts!

anything with a vastly different chromosome count would be a different 'kind'.

Please show the paragraph in the bible that shows that, Evidence please?? Or is that just YOUR assumption here like most of what you post...

I will respect your belief.

Science isn't a belief, science is a process, and it is based on the best empirical evidence available at the time. Instead of “believing in science,” the general public should appreciate, use, and make an effort to know and understand science concepts. Belief is different than understanding, knowing, appreciating, and using.

originally posted by: liberalskeptic
Cooperton,

You say the water came out of vents but the bible says it fell as rain. Is the bible wrong?

No it refers to underwater vents:

Seriously though, flood myths are so widespread that it is likely that a major flood did occur sometime in prehistory and the bible just retells one version. The most likely event that the myths describe is the draining of the Black Sea into the Mediterranean Sea through the Bosporus near present day Istanbul. It's even possible the event played out over several years so that someone could have foreseen it and built a boat to rescue people. Most humans probably lived in that area then dispersed to the far corners of the globe after the flood, which was not global in the modern sense but affected most humans so it could be called global to the human race.

What are the odds the Incans, isolated by an ocean, refer to a global flood occurring around 2,300 BC, the same time the Hebrews, Sumerians, and Chinese all said as well?




called “Llocllay Pachacuti” by the Quechua, meaning “universal flood.”

The Peruvian global flood account was also recorded by the Incan Historian Fernando de Montesinos to have occurred around 340 years prior to the conclusion of the second sun in 1,957 BC, which is 2,297 BC according to the Gregorian Calendar source. Again, this is very close to the Hebrew, Mesopotamian and Chinese date for the global flood.

The timing would have had to have been before at least 50,000 years ago because the Australian Aborigines have the same myth and they migrated to Australia at least 50,000 years ago.

When the sooth-sayers tell you an old date like that, you have to investigate why they claim such a date. You will be shocked at how often there is literally no explanation, or the explanation relies on speculative data.

Leave geology to geologists.

No sir, I will no longer simply 'trust the science'

a reply to: cooperton

Deckhands as you are well aware.

As to who was there well apprently "On that very day Noah and his sons, Shem, Ham and Japheth, together with his wife and the wives of his three sons, entered the ark."

And 5 bluefin tuna to feed the whole boat full of 10,000 animals???!!!

You just fed a couple of Polar Bears and the Hippopotamus.

Im literally doubled up in two here chortling away at this nonsense.

Fantastic mate, what do you do for an encore?

originally posted by: cooperton

originally posted by: andy06shake
a reply to: cooperton

All 8 hands on deck?

I doubt Noah, his wife, children and their wives were all 1-handed!

Yeah droping those nets over 5.5 miles down to catch crustacean on the sea floor was a quick job now the oceans covered Everest!!

a reply to: cooperton

No it refers to underwater vents:

Oh, you mean the ones formed near tectonic plates thaat you don't believe in??

Hydrothermal vents are fissures on the seabed from which geothermally heated water discharges. They are commonly found near volcanically active places, areas where tectonic plates are moving apart at mid-ocean ridges, ocean basins, and hotspots

What are the odds the Incans, isolated by an ocean, refer to a global flood occurring around 2,300 BC, the same time the Hebrews, Sumerians, and Chinese all said as well?

Why do you keep lying? You've been shown that those local flood myths all happened at different times. The sumerian flood happened several hundred years BEFORE Noah! How iggnorant of facts can a person be??

Also the references in the Chinese flood myth point to a local flood.

However, archaeological evidence of an outburst flood at Jishi Gorge on the Yellow River, comparable to similar severe events in the world in the past 10,000 years, has been dated to about 1920 BCE (a few centuries later than the traditional beginning of the Xia dynasty which came after Emperors Shun and Yao), and is suggested to have been the basis for the myth

The Peruvian global flood account was also recorded by the Incan Historian Fernando de Montesinos

You mean the Spanish Christian who dated the myth? Try and find an actual date for this myth thats not a bastardised version of the Noah Myth by Spanish Christians?

originally posted by: Kurokage

I think that should be squarely aimed at you and the way you keep trying to twist real science to meet your agenda. Noah didn't just dump these animals out and suddenly in a few thousand years millions of different species appeared. It took millions of years which has scientific proof, no matter what you say.

A new dog breed can emergre in 30 or 50 years, which is empirical data that clearly refutes your claim. Organisms can adapt to various environmental or genetic cues relatively quickly. Evolution, in terms of microbes becoming humans gradually over a billion years, is not demonstrated in empirical science. There are genetic bounds which allow organisms to adapt to environments, but not to the degree of an aquatic organism becoming a land animal over subsequent generations.

"It turns out there can be viable hybrids between animals with varying chromosome numbers, such as "dogxim", a wild animal that was the mix between a wolf and a fox."

And again, you're very wrong in your understanding of the actual science here.

I think dogxim is a known fact, but yeah sure whatever you say man.

"the emergence of certain traits"

You mean evolution!!!

by "emergence of certain traits", I mean genetic expression, not random mutation. Genetic expression is turning genes up or down based on environmental cues, also knows as 'epigenetics'. These epigenetic changes are inheritable, but have particular bounds that would prevent organisms from changing into something else. As shown by E. Coli in their attempts to evolve it in the Long-term evolution experiment.

"anything with a vastly different chromosome count would be a different 'kind'."

Please show the paragraph in the bible that shows that, Evidence please?? Or is that just YOUR assumption

It is an approximation to connect semantics of two distinct cultures.

"I will respect your belief."

Science isn't a belief, science is a process, and it is based on the best empirical evidence available at the time. Instead of “believing in science,” the general public should appreciate, use, and make an effort to know and understand science concepts. Belief is different than understanding, knowing, appreciating, and using.

There is empirical science, and then theoretical science. Empirical science is what keeps planes in the sky, whereas theoretical science has claimed all sorts of absurdities throughout history, including the idea that we're mutated microbes.

a reply to: Kurokage

I think we may require this gentleman's services.



Disclaimer possible offensive language.

originally posted by: Kurokage


Why do you keep lying? You've been shown that those local flood myths all happened at different times. The sumerian flood happened several hundred years BEFORE Noah! How iggnorant of facts can a person be??

What's the evidence that it happened at a different time? The end of the age of Taurus occurred around 2,300BC, not 2900BC:



Secular archaeologists even date this carving to after the 2300 BC mark

Also the references in the Chinese flood myth point to a local flood.

No they said it emerged over mountaintops and threatened the heavens themselves:

However, archaeological evidence of an outburst flood at Jishi Gorge on the Yellow River, comparable to similar severe events in the world in the past 10,000 years, has been dated to about 1920 BCE (a few centuries later than the traditional beginning of the Xia dynasty which came after Emperors Shun and Yao), and is suggested to have been the basis for the myth

What made them date it to 1920 BC? There could have also been a local flood 400 years after the global flood.

originally posted by: andy06shake
a reply to: Kurokage

I think we may require this gentleman's services.

Disclaimer possible offensive language.

can you admit it would be manageable to catch 5 bluefin tuna or equivalently sized fish per day? or perhaps 500 fish that were 100x smaller? Some combination of the above? Just admit it is not out of the realm of possibility for such a catch.