Half a million people march in London for Palestine

originally posted by: SprocketUK

originally posted by: quintessentone

originally posted by: FlyersFan

originally posted by: Leviathan4
No I haven't accused them of a conspiracy theory or a cover up.

Yes you did. I showed it. Pages 24 and 25. Four times.

That's a strawman

Nope. You don't know what a straw man is, do you? Nope.
You getting caught with your pants down isn't a 'straw man'.

It's not like police don't downplay the numbers.

www.bloomberg.com...

Thats New york police and talking about crime numbers.
can you get less relevant?

Not talking about, they actually downplayed the numbers, so it can and does happen.

originally posted by: Leviathan4
I have nothing to prove.

YES YOU DO. You made the thread and, over and over again, made the claim of 500,000 and then 300,000. It's up to you to prove your statements are true.

Someone comes and claims this is the right number because the police are unbiased and independent and because they are unbiased and independent the numbers are right. More of a circular argument....

Nope. You don't understand the term 'circular argument' do you?

You are struggling a lot

No, I"m on top of my game.
You on the other hand .. not so much.

PROVE your 'sources' are unbiased, and professional, and know how to count crowds.

Source 1 - a muslim dude in India pulling the number 500,000 out of his butt because he has no access to crowd information and because he's biased.

Source 2 - a socialist anti-colonizing protester also with no access to crowd information and biased.

Source 3 - a socialist anti-colonizing rag with bias and agenda.

originally posted by: quintessentone

originally posted by: FlyersFan

originally posted by: quintessentone
I don't think it was Lev, .

No, it was him. Four quotes from pages 24 and 25. He accused the UK police of a massive conspiracy and cover up. He claimed they purposely downplayed the numbers to somehow make it easier on themselves.

Lev posted this:

"Nope it's not a fact but just an estimation. The police has interest in downplaying these events. There are several sources that just refute the estimation."

He posited a conspiracy theory on why police might downplay crowd numbers, could it be true? Maybe, maybe not?

He also posited that downplaying crowd numbers, especially for sensitive political gatherings, would somehow make some people stay home (?)

Strange though, the videos I am watching on police crown counting the orators are saying that political bias plays a role in the end numbers.

The same could be said for the activists, if they inflated the crowd number, would that not spur some people to join them?

Yep precisely!

Did you see any of the claims made by the other poster?

It's just laughable

originally posted by: Oldcarpy2
a reply to: Leviathan4

Did you, or did you not, amongst other things, post this:

"The police has an interest in downplaying the event for reasons of safety and security as well as public order and for discouraging others from participating (it makes it much easier to police a smaller crowd)."

If that isn't an accusation of Police bias, I don't know what is!

Is it police bias, or police strategy for crowd management?

Obviously needs to be repeated since the OP is failing to acknowledge it -

originally posted by: SprocketUK

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the source

originally posted by: FlyersFan

originally posted by: Leviathan4
I have nothing to prove.

YES YOU DO. You made the thread and, over and over again, made the claim of 500,000 and then 300,000. It's up to you to prove your statements are true.

Someone comes and claims this is the right number because the police are unbiased and independent and because they are unbiased and independent the numbers are right. More of a circular argument....

Nope. You don't understand the term 'circular argument' do you?

You are struggling a lot

No, I"m on top of my game.
You on the other hand .. not so much.

PROVE your 'sources' are unbiased, and professional, and know how to count crowds.

Source 1 - a muslim dude in India pulling the number 500,000 out of his butt because he has no access to crowd information and because he's biased.

Source 2 - a socialist anti-colonizing protester also with no access to crowd information and biased.

Source 3 - a socialist anti-colonizing rag with bias and agenda.

No claim is there. These are the news from various sources. Not my claim.

In contrast

Someone comes and claims this is the right number because the police are unbiased and independent and because they are unbiased and independent the numbers are right. More of a circular argument....

That's your argument.

You seem to be struggling a lot in these conversations.

a reply to: FlyersFan

Who from the police force actually gives the okay to release police crowd figures to the press?

a reply to: FlyersFan

Here is your circular argument

this is the right number because the police are unbiased and independent and because they are unbiased and independent the numbers are right.

You can't escape these circular arguments...

FOUR accusations by Leviathan4 of a conspiracy by the police and of cover up.
Accusations of conspiracy to deflate the numbers of the crowd.
Accusations of a cover up so that no one will know the numbers were manufactured.

What is said here is a conspiracy and a cover up accusation.

Page 25

originally posted by: Leviathan4
The police has an interest in downplaying the event for reasons of safety and security as well as public order and for discouraging others from participating (it makes it much easier to police a smaller crowd).

originally posted by: Leviathan4
and as it seems it's an underestimation for obvious reasons

originally posted by: Leviathan4
[ The police has interest in downplaying these events.

Page 24

originally posted by: Leviathan4
An estimation by the Police that has an interest in downplaying the event for reasons of safety and security as well as public order and for discouraging others from participating (it makes it much easier to police a smaller crowd).

originally posted by: quintessentone
Who from the police force actually gives the okay to release police crowd figures to the press?

Must be standard practice. It happens here in the USA all the time.
Police or park ranger 'official numbers' of crowds.
LIke I said, I was in a crowd of 1 million in NYC.
There is no way I could count that crowd.
But the NYPD knew how by depth of crowd and length etc.
They released the numbers to the press and that's how I knew.

He is not going to give up Flyers, do not feed the trolls, is no healthy.

These people love to make this propaganda but they stay away from the real threads that talks about what terrorist are and what they want even when the evidence is in the face slapping them.

It kind of makes you think exactly what is going on.

originally posted by: Leviathan4
this is the right number because the police are unbiased and independent and because they are unbiased and independent the numbers are right.

Um .. no.

The police are unbiased and independent. They are trained in crowd control and in crowd counting. They are professionals with a code of ethics. They have the ability and training to know the correct number. That is why they are right.

So fail on your part.

originally posted by: FlyersFan

originally posted by: quintessentone
Who from the police force actually gives the okay to release police crowd figures to the press?

Must be standard practice. It happens here in the USA all the time.
Police or park ranger 'official numbers' of crowds.
LIke I said, I was in a crowd of 1 million in NYC.
There is no way I could count that crowd.
But the NYPD knew how by depth of crowd and length etc.
They released the numbers to the press and that's how I knew.

That's the Jacob's method which has an up to 30% error rate.

a reply to: Leviathan4

No, your circular argument is based on your assertion that the Police had reason to deflate the numbers (which you deny having claimed, despite evidence to the contrary), the opinions of a Muslim journo in India, a socialist website, and a communist rag.

Squirm on.

originally posted by: Leviathan4
No claim is there. These are the news from various sources. Not my claim.

BULL. You presented these 'sources' as proof of higher numbers than the official number. You most definitely DID claim them as information worthy of belief otherwise you wouldn't have kept putting them forward as 'proof'.

Again -

PROVE your 'sources' are unbiased, and professional, and know how to count crowds.

Source 1 - a muslim dude in India pulling the number 500,000 out of his butt because he has no access to crowd information and because he's biased.

Source 2 - a socialist anti-colonizing protester also with no access to crowd information and biased.

Source 3 - a socialist anti-colonizing rag with bias and agenda.

You seem to be struggling a lot in these conversations.

Not even remotely. Common sense and the stars say otherwise.
You seem emotionally invested in this though. Sad for you.

originally posted by: FlyersFan
FOUR accusations by Leviathan4 of a conspiracy by the police and of cover up.
Accusations of conspiracy to deflate the numbers of the crowd.
Accusations of a cover up so that no one will know the numbers were manufactured.

What is said here is a conspiracy and a cover up accusation.

Page 25

originally posted by: Leviathan4
The police has an interest in downplaying the event for reasons of safety and security as well as public order and for discouraging others from participating (it makes it much easier to police a smaller crowd).

originally posted by: Leviathan4
and as it seems it's an underestimation for obvious reasons

originally posted by: Leviathan4
[ The police has interest in downplaying these events.

Page 24

originally posted by: Leviathan4
An estimation by the Police that has an interest in downplaying the event for reasons of safety and security as well as public order and for discouraging others from participating (it makes it much easier to police a smaller crowd).

These are not claims but my answers to your assertions that we dont have to take police numbers at face value. I answered why we don't have to take take the police numbers at face value or your assertions by you regarding them.

The claim was made by you that the police is independent and unbiased.


And your argument is the following

this is the right number because the police are unbiased and independent and because they are unbiased and independent the numbers are right. More of a circular argument....

originally posted by: quintessentone
That's the Jacob's method which has an up to 30% error rate.

And like I said .. if there was a 30% error rate in the UK that puts the
number at 70,000 - 130,000 with 100,000 being in the middle.
NO WHERE NEAR 500,000 as claimed by the OP

a reply to: Leviathan4
Cut and paste spam that doesn't address what was posted.

originally posted by: Oldcarpy2
a reply to: Leviathan4

No, your circular argument is based on your assertion that the Police had reason to deflate the numbers (which you deny having claimed, despite evidence to the contrary), the opinions of a Muslim journo in India, a socialist website, and a communist rag.

Squirm on.

It's not an assertion. It's an answer on why we can't take the police number at face value. Never claimed this is definitely true. The other poster has claimed it is definitely true the police are unbiased and Independent

originally posted by: FlyersFan

originally posted by: Leviathan4
this is the right number because the police are unbiased and independent and because they are unbiased and independent the numbers are right.

Um .. no.

The police are unbiased and independent. They are trained in crowd control and in crowd counting. They are professionals with a code of ethics. They have the ability and training to know the correct number. That is why they are right.

So fail on your part.

That's an assertion got which you have no proof.