Half a million people march in London for Palestine

originally posted by: FlyersFan

originally posted by: Leviathan4
I am sure the Police provides the 'official' attendance. And should we accept the number as true because FlyerFan has said it is?

Don't pull that crap. I have nothing to do with it. You accept the number because trained unbiased UK Police, who worked the crowds that day and who have experience in crowd control and in counting crowds, say what the official attendance is. They have the resources to count the crowd and no reason to play with the numbers. THATS WHY.

They aren't some muslim dude in India, with a bias and agenda, sitting on a computer making up numbers. They aren't some 'anti-colonizing' socialist rag, with bias and agenda, making up numbers.

This describes your argument.

Someone comes and claims this is the right number because the police are unbiased and independent and because they are unbiased and independent the numbers are right. More of a circular argument....

First, they need to prove the unbiased and independent claim and then to prove the 100,000 figure is true.

Nome of these have happened.
Just assertions from you.

originally posted by: Leviathan4

originally posted by: quintessentone

originally posted by: Leviathan4

originally posted by: quintessentone

originally posted by: sendhelp

originally posted by: quintessentone

originally posted by: sendhelp
So much pro genocide, pro WW3, and anti protest, anti peace, anti justice in here lmao. Thread should have just gone a few pages, but went 30+ lol lol.

Yeah, it's the way of ATS to discredit each other, it's a shame when we could be having more intelligent discussions.

Well their news sources are like The Patriot Times or the Epoch Times or whatever similar sites and completely ignoring first hand accounts on Instagram. Their posts make it glaringly obvious, it's sad...I agree with you, cutting edge, mature conversations would be much better.

For example the conspiracy of Israel forming Hamas, that Netanyahu had Yitzahk Rabin killed, that US is providing the bombs and funding the genocide, and all the rabbit holes you could go down, and there's nothing.

There's about 4-5 super dedicated trolls, we all know who they are too.

Well to be fair this is a conspiracy site and we should expect conspiracy theorists to be front and center at times.

With this crowd counting issue, I've seen 100,000, 300,000 and a half million with many sources backing up each figure.

Can we all go with the 300,000 and call it a day?

But why don't you accept FlyersFan argument that because police are independent and unbiased we have to accept what they're saying at face value.

That's a great argument!

Don't you think so?!

I just want to see the maths with what method they used, is all I'm asking for.

I am just joking and being sarcastic.

Someone comes and claims this is the right number because the police are unbiased and independent and because they are unbiased and independent the numbers are right. More of a circular argument....

First, they need to prove the unbiased and independent claim and then to prove the 100,000 figure is true.

It's still a very large number of protesters so that shows just how important people in the U.K. view this atrocity.

They want to discredit you but picked the crowd counting issue which nobody here can prove method nor accuracy because none of us have the facts to figure it out. Maybe they will have more luck next time, hmm?

originally posted by: Leviathan4
I didn't use any of these words or made any such claims.

You most certainly did say it. FOUR TIMES you accused the UK police of a conspiracy to deflate the numbers. I posted it for all to see. You didn't use the word conspiracy but that is indeed what it would have to be in order for your bullcrap claim to be true. For the UK police to fake the numbers a large number of them would have to have been in on it. And there would have to be a cover up. That's a conspiracy. That's what you accused them of. Pages 24 and 25 ... four times.

originally posted by: SprocketUK

originally posted by: Leviathan4
a reply to: FlyersFan

"To be a police officer in the UK you have to adhere to a standard of ethics, be unbiased and independent and professional"

Burden of proof is on you and not on me.

You have made a claim here....

Everyone joining the Met must be vetted. Vetting checks are an important way to maintain our high standards and reassure Londoners that appropriate checks are done on people who hold a position of trust, such as our officers and staff.

You’ll be asked to fill in an online vetting form. Details are checked against:

criminal, intelligence and national security records
public records
in some cases, credit agencies
We also check your social media presence.

Cautions or criminal convictions

Ideally, you shouldn’t have a criminal conviction or cautions record. If you do have one, it will depend on the age and nature of the offence. We assess this as part of vetting.

If you are in any doubt about if to tell us something, disclose the information. If you don’t tell us about something your application may be refused simply as you weren’t up front.

Reasons you can't join

There’s a number of things that will rule you out from joining us. These include:

If you’re a member, or have been, of organisations like the British National Party (BNP), Combat 18 or the National Front. This isn’t a full list.
You’ve got undischarged debts or liabilities, an outstanding county court judgement, or you can’t manage loans or debts sensibly.
You use illegal drugs. Substance misuse tests are carried out before you can join us.

the source

I wish we did this for our D.A.s.

originally posted by: FlyersFan

originally posted by: Leviathan4
I didn't use any of these words or made any such claims.

You most certainly did say it. FOUR TIMES you accused the UK police of a conspiracy to deflate the numbers. I posted it for all to see. You didn't use the word conspiracy but that is indeed what it would have to be in order for your bullcrap claim to be true. For the UK police to fake the numbers a large number of them would have to have been in on it. And there would have to be a cover up. That's a conspiracy. That's what you accused them of. Pages 24 and 25 ... four times.

I don't think it was Lev, I think it was me quoting from videos of crowd counting methods where the orators (plural) stated that if the protest is political that political bias will most certainly be factored in the numbers, either inflating or deflating the numbers because...bias.

originally posted by: Leviathan4
First, they need to prove the unbiased and independent claim and then to prove the 100,000 figure is true.

Nome of these have happened.

I already did prove that they are unbiased and independent and professional.

I don't have the resources to recount their official number of 100,000. What proves they are right is their training, their working the crowd, their experience, their resources to do the job of counting, their professionalism, and that they are unbiased and have no reason to fake a number.

PROVE YOUR SOURCES ARE ACCURATE.

Prove your muslim sitting in India is unbiased and independent and professional. That he has the resources to count the crowd.

Prove your two anti-colonizing socialist rags are unbiased and independent and professional. That they have the resources to count the crowd.

You can't. The premise of this thread is bull.

originally posted by: quintessentone

originally posted by: Leviathan4

originally posted by: quintessentone

originally posted by: Leviathan4

originally posted by: quintessentone

originally posted by: sendhelp

originally posted by: quintessentone

originally posted by: sendhelp
So much pro genocide, pro WW3, and anti protest, anti peace, anti justice in here lmao. Thread should have just gone a few pages, but went 30+ lol lol.

Yeah, it's the way of ATS to discredit each other, it's a shame when we could be having more intelligent discussions.

Well their news sources are like The Patriot Times or the Epoch Times or whatever similar sites and completely ignoring first hand accounts on Instagram. Their posts make it glaringly obvious, it's sad...I agree with you, cutting edge, mature conversations would be much better.

For example the conspiracy of Israel forming Hamas, that Netanyahu had Yitzahk Rabin killed, that US is providing the bombs and funding the genocide, and all the rabbit holes you could go down, and there's nothing.

There's about 4-5 super dedicated trolls, we all know who they are too.

Well to be fair this is a conspiracy site and we should expect conspiracy theorists to be front and center at times.

With this crowd counting issue, I've seen 100,000, 300,000 and a half million with many sources backing up each figure.

Can we all go with the 300,000 and call it a day?

But why don't you accept FlyersFan argument that because police are independent and unbiased we have to accept what they're saying at face value.

That's a great argument!

Don't you think so?!

I just want to see the maths with what method they used, is all I'm asking for.

I am just joking and being sarcastic.

Someone comes and claims this is the right number because the police are unbiased and independent and because they are unbiased and independent the numbers are right. More of a circular argument....

First, they need to prove the unbiased and independent claim and then to prove the 100,000 figure is true.

It's still a very large number of protesters so that shows just how important people in the U.K. view this atrocity.

They want to discredit you but picked the crowd counting issue which nobody here can prove method nor accuracy because none of us have the facts to figure it out. Maybe they will have more luck next time, hmm?

Yeah! They're trying hard but it's an entertaining game where one believes that using a circular argument containing assertions will have good luck.

The argument is great!

"is the right number because the police are unbiased and independent and because they are unbiased and independent the number is right."

Marvelous!

originally posted by: quintessentone
I don't think it was Lev, .

No, it was him. Four quotes from pages 24 and 25. He accused the UK police of a massive conspiracy and cover up. He claimed they purposely downplayed the numbers to somehow make it easier on themselves.

PROVE YOUR SOURCES ARE ACCURATE.

Prove your muslim sitting in India is unbiased and independent and professional. That he has the resources to count the crowd.

Prove your two anti-colonizing socialist rags are unbiased and independent and professional. That they have the resources to count the crowd.

You can't. The premise of this thread is bull.

originally posted by: FlyersFan

originally posted by: Leviathan4
I didn't use any of these words or made any such claims.

You most certainly did say it. FOUR TIMES you accused the UK police of a conspiracy to deflate the numbers. I posted it for all to see. You didn't use the word conspiracy but that is indeed what it would have to be in order for your bullcrap claim to be true. For the UK police to fake the numbers a large number of them would have to have been in on it. And there would have to be a cover up. That's a conspiracy. That's what you accused them of. Pages 24 and 25 ... four times.

None of them are true. Never made the claim you said I made.

originally posted by: FlyersFan

originally posted by: quintessentone
I don't think it was Lev, .

No, it was him. Four quotes from pages 24 and 25. He accused the UK police of a massive conspiracy and cover up. He claimed they purposely downplayed the numbers to somehow make it easier on themselves.

I never said anything about a massive conspiracy and cover up and haven't use these words....

a reply to: Leviathan4

"To be a police officer in the UK you have to adhere to a standard of ethics, be unbiased and independent and professional"

Burden of proof is on you and not on me."

It's been proven to you, see above.

Now, some of us have had the courage in other threads to accept they are wrong.

How about it?

originally posted by: quintessentone

originally posted by: FlyersFan

originally posted by: Leviathan4
I didn't use any of these words or made any such claims.

You most certainly did say it. FOUR TIMES you accused the UK police of a conspiracy to deflate the numbers. I posted it for all to see. You didn't use the word conspiracy but that is indeed what it would have to be in order for your bullcrap claim to be true. For the UK police to fake the numbers a large number of them would have to have been in on it. And there would have to be a cover up. That's a conspiracy. That's what you accused them of. Pages 24 and 25 ... four times.

I don't think it was Lev, I think it was me quoting from videos of crowd counting methods where the orators (plural) stated that if the protest is political that political bias will most certainly be factored in the numbers, either inflating or deflating the numbers because...bias.

They are referring to my answers on why I have doubts about the claims made by FlyersFan. She doesn't understand that the burden of proof is on her.

I'm sure that muslim dude over in India with his bias and agenda hasn't passed this kind of integrity testing. I'm sure that the people at the two socialist sources with their bias and agenda haven't passed this kind of integrity testing.

The UK police HAVE to have integrity, independence, be non biased, professional, trained in crowds and crowd control ... they HAVE to know what they are doing and they HAVE to do it well. Otherwise they don't get hired or are quickly weeded out.

originally posted by: SprocketUK

Everyone joining the Met must be vetted. Vetting checks are an important way to maintain our high standards and reassure Londoners that appropriate checks are done on people who hold a position of trust, such as our officers and staff.

You’ll be asked to fill in an online vetting form. Details are checked against:

criminal, intelligence and national security records
public records
in some cases, credit agencies
We also check your social media presence.

Cautions or criminal convictions

Ideally, you shouldn’t have a criminal conviction or cautions record. If you do have one, it will depend on the age and nature of the offence. We assess this as part of vetting.

If you are in any doubt about if to tell us something, disclose the information. If you don’t tell us about something your application may be refused simply as you weren’t up front.

Reasons you can't join

There’s a number of things that will rule you out from joining us. These include:

If you’re a member, or have been, of organisations like the British National Party (BNP), Combat 18 or the National Front. This isn’t a full list.
You’ve got undischarged debts or liabilities, an outstanding county court judgement, or you can’t manage loans or debts sensibly.
You use illegal drugs. Substance misuse tests are carried out before you can join us.

the source

a reply to: Leviathan4

Are the actual quotes of your actual words in some way inaccurate?

originally posted by: Oldcarpy2
a reply to: Leviathan4

"To be a police officer in the UK you have to adhere to a standard of ethics, be unbiased and independent and professional"

Burden of proof is on you and not on me."

It's been proven to you, see above.

Now, some of us have had the courage in other threads to accept they are wrong.

How about it?

Are you in another world??

It has been asserted the police are unbiased and independent. Not proven


That's their argument...

Someone comes and claims this is the right number because the police are unbiased and independent and because they are unbiased and independent the numbers are right. More of a circular argument....

First, they need to prove the unbiased and independent claim and then to prove the 100,000 figure is true.

originally posted by: Leviathan4
I never said anything about a massive conspiracy and cover up and haven't use these words....

I didn't say you used those words. But that is indeed what you accused the UK police of. When you accused them of purposely deflating the numbers in order to somehow make their job easier .. that is a CONSPIRACY and there has to be a COVERUP of that conspiracy.

So yes, you did indeed accuse them of conspiracy and cover up ... FOUR TIMES.

You have failed to provide proof that they acted unethically, that they acted with bias and agenda, that they did not do their jobs as they were trained to do. It's up to you to prove your ridiculous claim ... a claim you made four times.

originally posted by: Oldcarpy2
a reply to: Leviathan4

Are the actual quotes of your actual words in some way inaccurate?

The actual quotes never say that I made claims about a conspiracy theory or used this word. Or have argued the police are biased and not independent. You won't find them.

The quotes are the answers to the unsubstantiated assertions by the other poster.

originally posted by: Leviathan4
It has been asserted the police are unbiased and independent. Not proven
.

YES IT HAS BEEN PROVEN.

How about you stop deflecting and address this -

PROVE your 'sources' are unbiased, and professional, and know how to count crowds.

Source 1 - a muslim dude in India pulling the number 500,000 out of his butt because he has no access to crowd information and because he's biased.

Source 2 - a socialist anti-colonizing protester also with no access to crowd information and biased.

Source 3 - a socialist anti-colonizing rag with bias and agenda.

originally posted by: FlyersFan

originally posted by: quintessentone
I don't think it was Lev, .

No, it was him. Four quotes from pages 24 and 25. He accused the UK police of a massive conspiracy and cover up. He claimed they purposely downplayed the numbers to somehow make it easier on themselves.

Lev posted this:

"Nope it's not a fact but just an estimation. The police has interest in downplaying these events. There are several sources that just refute the estimation."

He posited a conspiracy theory on why police might downplay crowd numbers, could it be true? Maybe, maybe not?

He also posited that downplaying crowd numbers, especially for sensitive political gatherings, would somehow make some people stay home (?)

Strange though, the videos I am watching on police crown counting the orators are saying that political bias plays a role in the end numbers.

The same could be said for the activists, if they inflated the crowd number, would that not spur some people to join them?