Half a million people march in London for Palestine

originally posted by: SprocketUK
I just went and put the bins out. I love the smell in the air around fireworks night, its all gunpowder and wood smoke.

I know its not strictly relevant to this thread but I needed to get away from arguing with toddlers for a bit.

So you came back to join in then?

originally posted by: FlyersFan

originally posted by: Leviathan4
This is their argument
"this is the right number because the police are unbiased and independent and because they are unbiased and independent the numbers are right. More of a circular argument....'

I am not the one who has made the argument that the police are unbiased and independent


"
Again ... NO.

The police are unbiased and independent. They are trained in crowd control and in crowd counting. They are professionals with a code of ethics. They have the ability and training to know the correct number. That is why they are right.

You don't understand 'circular logic'.

I am not the one who has made the argument that the police are unbiased and independent

This is your argument

"this is the right number because the police are unbiased and independent and because they are unbiased and independent the numbers are right. More of a circular argument...

Your claims and you prove them

originally posted by: Leviathan4
This is your argument

No it's not. This is -

The police are unbiased and independent. They are trained in crowd control and in crowd counting. They are professionals with a code of ethics. They have the ability and training to know the correct number. That is why they are right.

More of a circular argument...

Nope. You don't understand what a circular argument is.

Your claims and you prove them

Already did. Multiple times. So did the other poster.
I'm not repeating the information.
That's YOUR schtick .. to cut and paste and spam the boards.
Learn how to read.


The whole premise of the thread is based on these as 'sources'.
Presented as 'proof' that there were 500,000 people at this rally.

PROVE your 'sources' are unbiased, and professional, and know how to count crowds.

Source 1 - a muslim dude in India pulling the number 500,000 out of his butt because he has no access to crowd information and because he's biased.

Source 2 - a socialist anti-colonizing protester also with no access to crowd information and biased.

Source 3 - a socialist anti-colonizing rag with bias and agenda.

originally posted by: quintessentone
Protest in DC. Hundreds of thousands.

twitter.com...

Careful how you phrase it by the way...

Because you will be asked to prove the exact number. Unless you give the 'official' figure by the Police that according to FlyersFan are independent and unbiased therefore we can take their estimates at face value.

If we you don't then you will asked to disprove their assertion...

It's like Taliban logic...

originally posted by: quintessentone
Protest in DC. Hundreds of thousands.
twitter.com...

And in a day or two either the DC Police or the Park Service will give the official number.
If it's marching in the streets .. it'll be the DC Police.
If it's on the National Mall .. it'll be the Park Service.

originally posted by: FlyersFan

originally posted by: Leviathan4
This is your argument

No it's not. This is -

The police are unbiased and independent. They are trained in crowd control and in crowd counting. They are professionals with a code of ethics. They have the ability and training to know the correct number. That is why they are right.

More of a circular argument...

Nope. You don't understand what a circular argument is.

Your claims and you prove them

Already did. Multiple times. So did the other poster.
I'm not repeating the information.
That's YOUR schtick .. to cut and paste and spam the boards.
Learn how to read.


The whole premise of the thread is based on these as 'sources'.
Presented as 'proof' that there were 500,000 people at this rally.

PROVE your 'sources' are unbiased, and professional, and know how to count crowds.

Source 1 - a muslim dude in India pulling the number 500,000 out of his butt because he has no access to crowd information and because he's biased.

Source 2 - a socialist anti-colonizing protester also with no access to crowd information and biased.

Source 3 - a socialist anti-colonizing rag with bias and agenda.

Yep it is

this is the right number because the police are unbiased and independent and because they are unbiased and independent the numbers are right. More of a circular argument...

First things first.
Prove they are unbiased and independent .

Then prove their estimate is accurate because they are biased and independent

I never made any claim about my sources so I have nothing to prove....

My sources and there are 3 of them dispute your assertion. That's as far as it goes. If you don't like them then that's another issue.

originally posted by: Leviathan4
I never made any claim about my sources so I have nothing to prove....

Bullcrap. You presented them as evidence that there were 500,000 and 300,000.
We can all read your posts. It's all there for everyone to see.

originally posted by: FlyersFan

originally posted by: Leviathan4
This is your argument

No it's not. This is -

The police are unbiased and independent. They are trained in crowd control and in crowd counting. They are professionals with a code of ethics. They have the ability and training to know the correct number. That is why they are right.

More of a circular argument...

Nope. You don't understand what a circular argument is.

Your claims and you prove them

Already did. Multiple times. So did the other poster.
I'm not repeating the information.
That's YOUR schtick .. to cut and paste and spam the boards.
Learn how to read.


The whole premise of the thread is based on these as 'sources'.
Presented as 'proof' that there were 500,000 people at this rally.

PROVE your 'sources' are unbiased, and professional, and know how to count crowds.

Source 1 - a muslim dude in India pulling the number 500,000 out of his butt because he has no access to crowd information and because he's biased.

Source 2 - a socialist anti-colonizing protester also with no access to crowd information and biased.

Source 3 - a socialist anti-colonizing rag with bias and agenda.

You have done nothing other than make assertions.

Where is your proof that the police are unbiased and independent? There is nowhere to be seen.

originally posted by: FlyersFan

originally posted by: Leviathan4
I never made any claim about my sources so I have nothing to prove....

Bullcrap. You presented them as evidence that there were 500,000 and 300,000.
We can all read your posts. It's all there for everyone to see.

I presented as they are. Links and sources.

originally posted by: Leviathan4
I presented as they are. Links and sources.

... and presented them as proof of 500,000 and 300,000 people.
Don't be so disingenuous. We can see through you.

originally posted by: FlyersFan

originally posted by: Leviathan4
I never made any claim about my sources so I have nothing to prove....

Bullcrap. You presented them as evidence that there were 500,000 and 300,000.
We can all read your posts. It's all there for everyone to see.

Your claim the police are unbiased and independent therefore their estimates are correct has no basis. You wish it was true but you have been trapped in this thread trying to it is true. That's what happens when you make absolute statements with nothing to back them up.

originally posted by: Leviathan4
Where is your proof that the police are unbiased and independent? There is nowhere to be seen.

Already posted multiple times. Not reposting. Learn how to read.


The whole premise of the thread is based on these as 'sources'.
Presented as 'proof' that there were 500,000 people at this rally.

PROVE your 'sources' are unbiased, and professional, and know how to count crowds.

Source 1 - a muslim dude in India pulling the number 500,000 out of his butt because he has no access to crowd information and because he's biased.

Source 2 - a socialist anti-colonizing protester also with no access to crowd information and biased.

Source 3 - a socialist anti-colonizing rag with bias and agenda.

originally posted by: Leviathan4
Your claim the police are unbiased and independent therefore their estimates are correct has no basis.

Wrong. Already posted multiple times. Not reposting. Learn how to read.

originally posted by: FlyersFan

originally posted by: quintessentone
Protest in DC. Hundreds of thousands.
twitter.com...

And in a day or two either the DC Police or the Park Service will give the official number.
If it's marching in the streets .. it'll be the DC Police.
If it's on the National Mall .. it'll be the Park Service.

The numbers will vary depending on crowd demographics (locations) and densities, the maths are done differently. And the maths will be more accurate if done by drone vs. Jacob's method.

a reply to: Leviathan4

"Where is your proof that the police are unbiased and independent? There is nowhere to be seen."

How's about my personal, direct professional experience over decades?

Which you have conveniently ignored.

Have the common decency to address that, please?

originally posted by: Leviathan4

originally posted by: Oldcarpy2
a reply to: Leviathan4

Care to address my opinion, based on decades of personal direct experience?

No?

Ermm....No!

Of course you won't.

Cos you can't?

Go on. Man up and do it. If you have the courage of your own convictions.

Or just run away?

a reply to: quintessentone

Both the Washington Police and the Park Service are well versed in how to do it. They do it all the time. I'm sure they know the best way to count the crowd and get it accurate. They are well trained and have lots of experience.

originally posted by: Leviathan4

originally posted by: FlyersFan

originally posted by: Leviathan4
This is your argument

No it's not. This is -

The police are unbiased and independent. They are trained in crowd control and in crowd counting. They are professionals with a code of ethics. They have the ability and training to know the correct number. That is why they are right.

More of a circular argument...

Nope. You don't understand what a circular argument is.

Your claims and you prove them

Already did. Multiple times. So did the other poster.
I'm not repeating the information.
That's YOUR schtick .. to cut and paste and spam the boards.
Learn how to read.


The whole premise of the thread is based on these as 'sources'.
Presented as 'proof' that there were 500,000 people at this rally.

PROVE your 'sources' are unbiased, and professional, and know how to count crowds.

Source 1 - a muslim dude in India pulling the number 500,000 out of his butt because he has no access to crowd information and because he's biased.

Source 2 - a socialist anti-colonizing protester also with no access to crowd information and biased.

Source 3 - a socialist anti-colonizing rag with bias and agenda.

You have done nothing other than make assertions.

Where is your proof that the police are unbiased and independent? There is nowhere to be seen.

Care to address continued “war crimes” that hamas continues to commit?

You know that they blocked a exit route/road that Israel was allowing in order to evacuate palestinian refugees. A war crime, definitely not a genocide, matter fact opposite of what you keep parroting.

Are you aware that 1/3 of the evacuees in ambulance’s were hamas combatants? Israel intel shut them down. Yep another war crime.

Do you know that hamas is using Palestinians as human shields? Another war crime

Are you aware they are holding hostages, most of them innocent of any combative intent? Another war crime

How can you gloss over those facts???

a reply to: Leviathan4

Trapped?

Like when you have been caught out lying about what you've posted and misrepresenting what others have posted?

Your thread, your claims.

Burden of proof, is on you. Matey Peeps.

Now, man up, or go home.

originally posted by: FlyersFan
a reply to: quintessentone

Both the Washington Police and the Park Service are well versed in how to do it. They do it all the time. I'm sure they know the best way to count the crowd and get it accurate. They are well trained and have lots of experience.

Why crowd counting is a murky science. For all we know, all three figures were arrived at and deemed correct by different methods.

This story of competing head counts is not uncommon. Estimating large numbers is difficult even with the best of intention. If you count the number of jellybeans in a jar three times, you'll probably have three different numbers, because people simply cannot count very large numbers without some error. Now, imagine trying to count a shifting mass of heads, some stooping to tie shoes, some sharing the same umbrella, some arriving late or leaving early. Plus, this is one field in which good intentions are rare. Crowd-size estimation is a murky science, positioned at the intersection of statistical precision and political sleight-of-hand, and plenty of people are motivated to either exaggerate or low-ball an event's attendance.

But a simple area times density calculation has its limits. Crowds are not uniform—they clump in some places and spread out in others. To account for this, estimation methods are becoming more sophisticated. Companies such Digital Design and Imaging Service are now adapting the formula for multiple densities. The firm has counted attendance at major events on the National Mall in recent years and claims it can count the crowd to within 10 percent. So CBS hired DDIS to count heads at Glenn Beck's rally at the Lincoln Memorial in August 2010.

www.popularmechanics.com...

If the DC cops are using the Digital Design and Imaging Service new formula to calculate crowd size, then I'll believe it to be the most accurate, except for them using the new formula with drone footage, which would be even more accurate.

But how are we to know?