My problem with anti vaxxers

originally posted by: littlecorn
a reply to: asabuvsobelow

Actual doctors report side affects of all medicines it's part of the process and they don't lose their careers by providing feedback.

The system has made if very difficult for them to report adverse events. Here in BC, canada the government released a freedom of information report of our head doctor's emails where she basically ignored doctors who had concerns over seeing serious adverse reactions to the covid shots, as well as their difficulty in using the existing reporting system, in favour of covering her butt. There is also Dr. Charles Hoffe, who went public over seeing vax death and injury in his small town because this head doc, and the college of physicians and surgeons, threatened to take his license if he spoke out. He had originally contacted Dr. Bonnie Henry for advice but they didn't want anything to do with it and ostracized him publically.

What is the lower rung of the medical system, the doctors who actually care for people, supposed to do when that chain of command is broken leaving them no alternatives? Maybe not every country is like this but many are. Edited to add... my doctor and many others around have quit. Likely due to this and the stress of all of it. Certainly not in the best interest of human health to push doctors to their limit so they must walk away.

Head Doc Emails FOI

originally posted by: littlecorn
So .... conclusion.

Anti vaxxers post no compelling information to support their case, instead make emotional appeals and insult you if your logic is a threat to them.

Thanks guys for the thread.

You're a troll then? You didn't accept any single person's reasoning including a member here who has been damaged by the shots, not even for a second in compassion. No one is asking you to be anti vax but you fail to understand why others are not wanting these shots despite them telling you.

Smells like troll.

Firstly, you should specify what antivaxxers you are talking about. There are 3 types i'm aware of.

You have the Jim Carrey type; vaccines cause autism. all vaccines I believe are considered bad?

Then, you have religious types; not only "Christian Scientists" (I LIKE those guys. almost always well read, know their #) but you could also put the "no moderna because it's made with aborted babies" ones. I think there is a bit of crossover with group 1, on the fringes.

Then you have people like ME; capable of reading & understanding a research document, doing math, and with a small amount of basic medical and biological knowledge, that all got together and screamed "this COVID # is screwy, hold off; the death rate is essentially zero if you are not diabetic, so...no, I don't want your therapeutic that has only been used in one prior trial (a HIV vaccine. yup. everyone who got the "vaccine" developed AIDS. I # you not).

in essence EVERY SINGLE THING THE GOVERNMENT SAID ABOUT COVID was a lie. I've got Natural Immunity, now, but if that ever fades, there are 2 real vaccines, one developed by an pediatric infectious disease expert in texas, and one using the old killed material method in India...if COVID ever becomes an actual threat, I'll quickly attempt to get one of those ACTUAL vaccines.

originally posted by: camain
a reply to: Annee

I know all about it, and I know about causality thinking too. Trust me, 20 years of trying to find a way to make them pay for the damage done, I know all the arguments. Hell, I might even been inclined to agree with you before it happened. However, 2 days after the shots, down hill. It wasn't out of the blue, she had the shots, 2 days of fevers, and bam, it was what it was. We also treated with childrens tylenol BTW, the fever, which, has been know to cause issues too when the system is overtaxed. Anyway, no one will change my mind on the vax, and I'm not looking to change anyone else. All I recommend make sure your kids are heathy before giving them a shot. Plenty of Sun, veges, and vitamins. Further, space them out. If you want to adhere to the schedule, well, its on you. I wouldn't, I'd delay everything 6months to a year, but whatever.

Camain

OK

And I did make the doctor space out kid vax. Logically for me -- too much at one time seemed dangerous.

www.abovetopsecret.com...

originally posted by: Annee
a reply to: igloo

You do understand "spreading a disease" -- right?

In some areas that have Eboli -- all families members are forced to stay in their home -- after quarantine everything is burned -- including the bodies.

Bet they wish they had a vaccine.

--------------------------------------------------------

Or is it all about you?

Just making a point.

(Abortions are not contagious)

It's a cold Annee, a coronavirus is a cold. Maybe a nasty one this time around but the fact that many folk were asymptomatic says it all. Sadly, some didn't fair well, as to be expected.

No young person should ever have myocarditis or neurological issues over the coerced shots to prevent a deadly cold in the weak, elderly or selfish. That isn't how nature works. I'm old so maybe it's my time and nature will do it's business but to force this on the young who has a life ahead was utterly immoral. Not one person was ever respectful when I mentioned that we have no data on different genetics that might make some vulnerable to adverse events. Is it insane to think this is important to know?

I will die on this hill. That is how strong I feel about what we have endured at the hands of our government.

Done with this conversation. The gist of it is there are two types of people on this planet, those who live and let live and those who force themselves on others. Some of the so called anti vaxxers may be getting loud and persistent now but we have been put through hell. You all can mock and whatever but what I experienced here in canada from the unthinking, vicious masses was chilling.

Even Bill Gates recently said that in hindsight covid was mostly a "disease of the elderly" and " like flu, but different" So, it's a cold, deadly to some as it always has been.

Nothing like ebola.

originally posted by: igloo

originally posted by: Annee
a reply to: igloo

You do understand "spreading a disease" -- right?

In some areas that have Eboli -- all families members are forced to stay in their home -- after quarantine everything is burned -- including the bodies.

Bet they wish they had a vaccine.

--------------------------------------------------------

Or is it all about you?

Just making a point.

(Abortions are not contagious)

It's a cold Annee, a coronavirus is a cold. Maybe a nasty one this time around but the fact that many folk were asymptomatic says it all. Sadly, some didn't fair well, as to be expected.

No young person should ever have myocarditis or neurological issues over the coerced shots to prevent a deadly cold in the weak, elderly or selfish. That isn't how nature works. I'm old so maybe it's my time and nature will do it's business but to force this on the young who has a life ahead was utterly immoral. Not one person was ever respectful when I mentioned that we have no data on different genetics that might make some vulnerable to adverse events. Is it insane to think this is important to know?

I will die on this hill. That is how strong I feel about what we have endured at the hands of our government.

Done with this conversation. The gist of it is there are two types of people on this planet, those who live and let live and those who force themselves on others. Some of the so called anti vaxxers may be getting loud and persistent now but we have been put through hell. You all can mock and whatever but what I experienced here in canada from the unthinking, vicious masses was chilling.

Even Bill Gates recently said that in hindsight covid was mostly a "disease of the elderly" and " like flu, but different" So, it's a cold, deadly to some as it always has been.

Nothing like ebola.

Kill Gates is like calm down, we aren't trying to depopulate THAT fast.

originally posted by: Annee

originally posted by: Oldcarpy2
a reply to: TDDAgain

See what I mean?

Some evidence, perhaps?

I'm with you.

I honestly don't think I've read any legitimate, factual, reason for anti-vax.

Other than perhaps -- "I don't want to".

And if that’s not good enough, too damn bad.

originally posted by: littlecorn
So I have been following the anti vax on and off for some time. On the face of it it seems potentially dangerous to inject a vaccine that has been developed so quickly, so I'm interested in information from all sides.

I find anti vac arguments come in 2 ways.

1. The first is anecdotal evidence. By this I mean someone posts about their friend/cousin relative etc who wasn't well after the vaccine. There are millions even billions of people vaccinated and one or two personal examples cannot affect the statistical numbers vaccinated.

2. A link to a source is provided, say a doctor or a statistician. When the professional is researched they always it seems end up with dubious reputations and a history of discredited practices.

So what I would like to know is, is there any actual evidence that isn't about some unknown friend or from a professional without a history of strange beliefs?

 

MOD NOTE
PLEASE READ

Often bad reactions to any medicines is familiar...meaning the reaction is relevant to a certain genetic group and that is actually a well known piece of info. On the medical form you fill out at the doctors office when you start a new doctor they ask about these things....if any family member has had a severe reaction to a medicine is asked sometimes by the doctors. They do not test the medicines against all ancestral lines but I do read a lot of research topics on different ancestral groups having an intolerance to meds....Some countries do not allow a certain med we commonly use in the USA because of lots of severe side effects...yet there is no accepted policy of those of that genetic line to deter a doctor from prescribing it. They are presently trying to get a database together to fix this issue, but it would require genetic testing of patients to get the benefit of it and many people do not want this. Just because one ancestral line...say northern Scotts for example...has problems with a med, doesn't mean that everyone has problems with it. So maybe thirty five percent of that lineage has major issues with a medicine while ninety nine percent of the rest of the world has no problem, is it ok to force that medicine on that genetic group which in this example is the Scotts?

There is a practice of discrediting any Doctor even if the doctor is right if they do not agree with the beliefs of the controling agencies of the medical profession. This has been going on for many decades and it will continue in the future. Many of the discredited people of the past were correct, when evidence did come out ten to twenty years later, their career was long gone and those people could not sue anyone because the evidence was not considered real at the time...consensus of the time rules...not true reality. Read as much as I do and do the comparisons and you will find this is true.

The big deal for me was that I was making a personal choice not to overreact like the majority of people and was ostracized for it. I'm used to thinking for myself, so popular opinion is usually disregarded since I refuse to participate in mob mentality. I clearly took notice of the concerted effort used to discredit any alternative line of thinking than the one being pushed, ironically being changed or "updated" by those in charge themselves.
Really, their nonsensical statements, contradictions, and lies has and should have destroyed any trust that was given to our "leaders."

Just a tiny example: If the "vaccine" protected or prevented one from covid, why would it matter if others don't want that protection? Too many questions were intentionally ignored.

I had to get the Flu shot like clockwork when in the service. I was suspicious beforehand, but you better believe I put two and two together when I no longer took it and noticed I successfully evaded the flu ever since.

a reply to: littlecorn

Look! They told you the so called, "experimental" vaccine, issued under emergency use authorization only, would keep you from contracting Covid. Did it prevent Fauci from contracting Covid? Or Biden, or Jill, or any other high profile people advocating the vaccine, from contracting Covid? No! So basically, the damned shot is worthless in preventing contracting Covid.

Since the first onset of this plandemic, the virus appears to be weakening in its severity and better treatment has evolved to better treat it. I think, now, chances of dying from Covid are far less likely and the only victims now are probably people with comorbidities.

Even some of my kinfolk that took the jab eventually contracted Covid and one, a cousin, may have even been a victim to the shot. She was 59 years old and died unexpectedly in her front yard. No autopsy.

A nephew's wife miscarried in her first trimester. She had the shot, but there is no proof the shot caused it.

I have been on Ivermectin from the start, 71 and a lifelong smoker and I have not contracted Covid, and I am not dead from unknown or unexplained reasons.

I won't try to provide proof to you, one way or the other. All I know is that you can not trust either this government, the drug companies, medical professionals or the mainstream media for truthful information or reporting. The government controls, owns, every aspect of the medical industry and they do exactly what the government tells them to do. Do your own research and if you feel comfortable, take the flucking shot. You don't think you can trust alternative sources to base your decisions on but you are a fool if you trust the government. It's your skin on the line.

According to the gullible in this thread, we should trust:

The government
Big pharma
Big tech
MSM media
The CDC
The WHO
and probably most 3 letter agencies.
Because they ALL have our best interests at heart, and are completely honest.

Wow 😳
Nuff said.

a reply to: littlecorn

So .... conclusion.

Anti vaxxers post no compelling information to support their case, instead make emotional appeals and insult you if your logic is a threat to them.

And a pro vax poster posted 14 posts in this thread and had 12 of those posts removed by the mods.....

The OP is a bit vague (intentionally?). Never leaned how to use the search function, it seems, as they are attempting to beat a dead horse.

How about no “proof” is needed. You either genuinely want to be convinced of something (not likely, as you would do research…or just accept your own opinion), or you are looking to refute the viewpoints/opinions of others (more likely, as you can pick and choose the “easy” targets in your own thread).

I have never taken any vaccine, when offered. Never had a flu shot, nor any of that nonsense. Yes, I have been sick a couple of times…though very rarely. Fairly certain I may have had covid at the start of the whole mess - no tests at that point, no runny nose, no cough…just lost my sense of smell for a few weeks, and that never happened before. My wife’s parents visited with Covid, my wife had Covid, close friends, coworkers, etc, etc (all “vaccinated”)- I have been exposed and never got “sick”. Masks, no thank you, unless we are robbing the joint? Most places have laws on the books against masks, and they haven’t been removed (just ignored?).

How about you try washing your hands, not let a filthy feces covered hiker dip their hand into your trail mix…just the normal common sense stuff. Maybe you like to lick handrails, I don’t know, but I wouldn’t touch that nasty greasy rail even as a kid.

I do things regularly that are dangerous - mountain climb, motorcycles, sky diving, you name it. I know the risks, and remain objectively observant. Worked recovery for years, so I know how many people die a night in the area just “driving” - and these are not advertised. Imagine finding mortal wreckage in the same spots every night, and that is just me - other people were also scraping things up during the day. I think what it comes down to is a bunch of fearful hatemongers trying to impose their fear on others. If you are too afraid, just don’t go out, and leave me alone. We will both be the better for it. Chug your drug shots, hug your teddy bear…whatever makes you happy. If I find your teddy on my side of the fence, it might get used to start a fire… unless my dog steals it as a hump toy first.

Other reasons? As investigators, we use red flags to determine further study. Experimental and emergency use - red flag. No approved non-emergency version actually available off the shelf (comirnaty?) - red flag. The people pushing mandates locally (governor) exempt themselves and friends (legislature, other politicians, judges). - red flag. The federal government does the same - red flag. Many of these people are also profiting off it - red flag. The same people retain emergency use powers, which are intended for very short term applications (days, weeks at most), to abuse and further profit FOR YEARS - red flag. Red flags surrounding this are endless, and my time is limited - I encourage others to point more out.

If it is my time, so be it. I will do my best to study/plan the route, and hang on the ledge when the unexpected rainstorm starts. Mountains tend to make their own weather, separate from any forecast. Many things are out of our control. I never understood why so many people are so afraid of the sole inevitable thing…that they would prefer to never have truly lived. Let alone think it is acceptable to rob others of the choice.

Do you “feel” 2+2 should equal 4, or have a logical thought process that allows you to equate? To think, evaluate, correlate, and know. We really can’t hope to change one’s feelings, nor expect anyone to care about our feelings, but we can hope to provide what we think. You decide, as long as such things are still a decision. People fought and died for choice - are those opposed to choice willing to do the same to remove it? That is an honest question.

a reply to: littlecorn

Hey

there is a few bits and bobs on the UK gov site now , stating that vaccines should not be given to pregnant women and no trials were done on the toxicity of the vaccine for pregnant women at the time.
The guidance urged pregnant women to get it , then a week or so ago they changed it to state that pregnant women should avoid it.
COVID19 vaccine report UK GOV

In the context of supply under Regulation 174, it is considered that sufficient reassurance of safe use of the vaccine in pregnant women cannot be provided at the present time: however, use in women of childbearing potential could be supported provided healthcare professionals are advised to rule out known or suspected pregnancy prior to vaccination. Women who are breastfeeding should also not be vaccinated. These judgements reflect the absence of data at the present time and do not reflect a specific finding of concern.

I like how they say the findings are not of concern hahahaha

there is also a woman who just got 120K vaccine damages from the NHS as her husband died from vaccine related injury. An admission that the vaccine caused his death.

Fiancees £120K pay inadequate

a reply to: Peeple

An untested product with many red flags associated with it. Good for everyone safe and effective.No open discussions.? Nothing is that good. It is the biggest medical cock up in history so big, that it is taking time for people to actually realize the enormity of the cockup.

a reply to: anonentity

Cockup HAH I raise you greatest crime against humanity in human history (yet)


this was a giant swindle a multi armed attack on humanity
not just our health, but they stole our wealth as well to pay for it all
and of course the politicians and their pharma pals made a pretty penny
to stick away in their offshore accounts away from prying eyes.

they openly tested on us , they messed us around , played with our rights
authoritarians wet dream

a reply to: littlecorn

at this point I find the anti vaxxers far less extreme than their opponents

at least they don't look to take people's jobs, steal their money or threaten to put them in camps, take their children or euthanise their pets and frame the miserable deaths of the most vulnerable as the greater good..

if looked at dispassionately its hard to see how a society that destroys its own safeguards could survive.

originally posted by: Itisnowagain
a reply to: littlecorn

So .... conclusion.

Anti vaxxers post no compelling information to support their case, instead make emotional appeals and insult you if your logic is a threat to them.

And a pro vax poster posted 14 posts in this thread and had 12 of those posts removed by the mods.....

So we've learned that pro-vaxxers have no manners?

Gotcha.

originally posted by: Zanti Misfit
a reply to: Annee

Spock: “The Needs of the Many Outweigh the Needs of the Few”................................Or the ONE............

Pro-vaxxers are now reduced to quoting fictional aliens to support their position.

Seems redundant, since not that long back, many on this very site were also quoting Fauci and Biden saying you definitely won't get or spread CV if you get the jab.