My problem with anti vaxxers

originally posted by: littlecorn
So I have been following the anti vax on and off for some time. On the face of it it seems potentially dangerous to inject a vaccine that has been developed so quickly, so I'm interested in information from all sides.

I find anti vac arguments come in 2 ways.

1. The first is anecdotal evidence. By this I mean someone posts about their friend/cousin relative etc who wasn't well after the vaccine. There are millions even billions of people vaccinated and one or two personal examples cannot affect the statistical numbers vaccinated.

2. A link to a source is provided, say a doctor or a statistician. When the professional is researched they always it seems end up with dubious reputations and a history of discredited practices.

So what I would like to know is, is there any actual evidence that isn't about some unknown friend or from a professional without a history of strange beliefs?

So the VAERS database is anecdotal? Have you seen the latest CDC recommendations? A month ago, the latest CDC recommendations were "conspiracy theory".

Have you seen the latest stats on percentages of deaths for the "fully clot shotted"? You really should look it up, might be surprised how "effective" that experiment really is.

a reply to: littlecorn

Last time I checked my doctor is still in office. Undetected heart inflammation like in my case does a lot of damage. It was not initially clear except from inflammation markers in my blood but they thought it's from liver and kidney, because both acted up. It took months of different symptoms fading up and down until I fainted while getting up from the toilet. I woke up, don't ask me how long I was away. I called an ambulance after I crawled to my phone because getting up was not an option.

In hospital they finally connected the dots and did a first non invasive heart flow diagram I was around 35%, they only do 5% steps because they can't measure that precise with this method. They can only measure precise when they sedate you and shove down a sonar boje down the throat. They do this because the ribcage is in the way if it's done from outside, producing echo leading to bad results. They need to measure the heart to calculate the flow rates because they can not just put a mechanical flow meter somewhere in the body.

I undergo regular flow checks every two months now and am supposed to start physical rehab in two weeks. That's endangered because the last flow diagram in July did not show progress. I have to be above 50%. Next tuesday is the date for the last flow diagram that will hopefully show progress again. Physical rehab is needed in conjunction with medication to strengthen the heart and also adjust the medication under medical watch and that has to be done stationary. I will be wearing 24/7 mobile EKG device for the whole stay.

I really don't care if it's uncommon, I know another one that was hit by this who has it even worse because he was working fulltime and doing MMA when his heart inflammation started. He's still on walking assistance, I at least can walk by myself even though I can / should not lift more than around 2kg to put ease on the heart and circulatory system. Every day chores are a burden currently.

In fact, that old #### is raising my blood pressure and it's not good. Therefore I am at least appreciating your respectful tone and why I answer to you in detail.

Going offline now, should have just ignored the troll.

originally posted by: Oldcarpy2
a reply to: TDDAgain

Qualified Solicitor experienced for 30 plus years practicing in the field of clinical negligence?

You?

Check mate?

Grow up.

Sick and tired of your insults.

what a fantastic example of the logical fallacy of "Appeal to authority". I trained Dr. Fauci, and all other doctors in the immunology field. Therefore, I Trump you. check mate mate. Oh, and DERP!

originally posted by: littlecorn
a reply to: asabuvsobelow

Actual doctors report side affects of all medicines it's part of the process and they don't lose their careers by providing feedback.

Let me give you an example I can give feedback to my boss at work about a new system we are implementing. It's a good thing. If I were instead to make claims I have no business making eg a doctor without any access to research or testing made claims that the 'rna was rewriting peoples immune systems to make them susceptible to any illness' then obviously it's going to be rejected because not only does it not make sense but the doctor does not have the research requirements to prove it.

Now for instance if doctors were reporting that their vaccinated patients kept getting sick all the time then yes that is valid feedback and we already have a list of side affects because of this.

Keep in mind it was only 1 doctor who noticed omicron strain. She noticed different symptoms in people testing positive for covid and reported it.

This is the appeal to authority argument. The truth doesn't care who speaks its. Hitler could say something and be right, it doesn't matter it is hitler saying it, it's still true.

Doctors were threatened by multiple medical boards to get on board with the experimental vaccine or lose their license. The mainstream media and big tech colluded to push the big pharma and government narrative and censor any dissent. Many doctors did speak out about it including extremely high profile ones at the top of their field.

Clearly you have a lot to catch up on, the amount of information to go through is immense.

originally posted by: Oldcarpy2
a reply to: MykeNukem

Have always opposed mandatory vaccines, myself

Oh, so you're an anti-vaxxer?

As far as I know, the new normal states that if you're against mandatory vaccines, you are an anti-vaxxer.

Ask Annee

originally posted by: Annee

originally posted by: Oldcarpy2
a reply to: TDDAgain

See what I mean?

Some evidence, perhaps?

I'm with you.

I honestly don't think I've read any legitimate, factual, reason for anti-vax.

Other than perhaps -- "I don't want to".

DAMN. When it comes to the vaccines, "My Body My Choice" sure goes to hell quick, doesn't it ?
It simply amazes me that people can be such hypocrites and not realize it.

a reply to: v1rtu0s0

It's got nothing to do with appealing to authority. I've gave you actual examples of how doctors can and do give feedback to their authorities and it works. All you have done is provide opinions and insults, good luck with that, I think we've spoke enough here

a reply to: littlecorn
I have found that people who are genuinely interested in the truth of a matter will do the research, look at evidence from all sides, be as objective as they can be, and make a decision based on what they have learned.

There's nothing wrong with asking for evidence on a forum to help in that process, but an attitude of "prove me wrong" is not a search for truth, it is trolling.

originally posted by: Blaine91555
a reply to: littlecorn
The main thing I personally think matters is that the side effects of the vaccines are rare enough that the risk fully justifies having the vaccine. The chance of dying from Covid is far higher than dying from a vaccine.

It's a matter of odds in my mind. Those who avoid vaccines are willing to take the higher risk as is their right.

There are few demographics where risk from COVID exceeds risk from vaccination. It is very clearly not the case under 25 and we still have no long term data on which to base the other demographics.

Fauci and Birx have lied, children are dying for no benefit.

Nobody hates people for being vaccinated. They hate being told the moon is made of green cheese and being called anti-science for following the data. You don't need to believe the outrageous claims, the actual data shows this already.

People can't seem to ignore the obvious clickbait and keep acting like the real data doesn't exist. It is pure cope. All I ever wanted was no mandates, no approval for kids, and functioning informed consent without suppression of data. There is simply no rational way to justify the destruction of informed consent for a sub 1% mortality, now endemic, disease.

a reply to: Annee

Other than perhaps -- "I don't want to".

Very good reason .
Now , get off the "forced" vaccine bull .
That was shot down in flames by the Supreme Court .

originally posted by: camain
a reply to: littlecorn

My first wife and I were pro vaccination. I had a 3 year old daughter, talking, reading, potty trained, very bright. took her in to get her vaccinations, 2 days later she stopped talking, stopped being potty training, didn't read anymore. took her to the doctor, said it was the fever that accompanied the shot. Not the shot.

OK, 20 years later, she has emotional issues, occasionally bed wets, and has emotional issues, and is on the autism spectrum. 20 years of reading all the evidence, and here is my take. A vaccination is like taking a sledge hammer to a finishing nail. Most people your fine if your careful. However everyone's DNA is different, they absorb the chemicals differently, and the reality is not everyone will have the same reaction. Put simply the vax I gave my daughter hit her body hard and caused harm. Now you say, well there is no proof. The proof is in what she was, and what she is now, and what she could have been. Now you say, well there is compensation for that. No sir, there is absolutely not, you have to show evidence beyond a shadow of doubt proving it was the vaccine, and for most that evidence doesn't exist, or is disregarded by a system setup NOT to pay for long term care. It is what it is. Would I get my kids vaxed again, yes, would I do it on the schedule HELL NO, would I make sure their immune system was as strong as possible and that they were healthy, absolutely. Am I anti-vax, I am anti-stupid, and the reality is you are putting a pile of $%$^ into the veins of your little one, and you don't know what could happen. The evidence says most are safe, doesn't mean all, and doesn't mean they need 3 vax all at once. Go slow, be healthy, and plan it out. Give the body time to adjust and heal. These are things that didn't exist 20 years ago. The do now. I am not saying don't get vaxxed, i am saying take your time, eat healthy, and go slowly. Even then people react differently and because of that you need to be careful. If you have a history of reactions to vax, might want to look carefully.

Camain

There is a type of Autism that shows itself about age 3.

It appears by showing decline in abilities and speach.

The body goes through change cycles -- puberty isn't the only one.

It has nothing to do with vaccinations -- other than coincidence timing.

Regressive Autism – Why It Occurs: www.autismparentingmagazine.com...

originally posted by: Annee

originally posted by: camain
a reply to: littlecorn

My first wife and I were pro vaccination. I had a 3 year old daughter, talking, reading, potty trained, very bright. took her in to get her vaccinations, 2 days later she stopped talking, stopped being potty training, didn't read anymore. took her to the doctor, said it was the fever that accompanied the shot. Not the shot.

OK, 20 years later, she has emotional issues, occasionally bed wets, and has emotional issues, and is on the autism spectrum. 20 years of reading all the evidence, and here is my take. A vaccination is like taking a sledge hammer to a finishing nail. Most people your fine if your careful. However everyone's DNA is different, they absorb the chemicals differently, and the reality is not everyone will have the same reaction. Put simply the vax I gave my daughter hit her body hard and caused harm. Now you say, well there is no proof. The proof is in what she was, and what she is now, and what she could have been. Now you say, well there is compensation for that. No sir, there is absolutely not, you have to show evidence beyond a shadow of doubt proving it was the vaccine, and for most that evidence doesn't exist, or is disregarded by a system setup NOT to pay for long term care. It is what it is. Would I get my kids vaxed again, yes, would I do it on the schedule HELL NO, would I make sure their immune system was as strong as possible and that they were healthy, absolutely. Am I anti-vax, I am anti-stupid, and the reality is you are putting a pile of $%$^ into the veins of your little one, and you don't know what could happen. The evidence says most are safe, doesn't mean all, and doesn't mean they need 3 vax all at once. Go slow, be healthy, and plan it out. Give the body time to adjust and heal. These are things that didn't exist 20 years ago. The do now. I am not saying don't get vaxxed, i am saying take your time, eat healthy, and go slowly. Even then people react differently and because of that you need to be careful. If you have a history of reactions to vax, might want to look carefully.

Camain

There is a type of Autism that shows itself about age 3.

It appears by showing decline in abilities and speach.

The body goes through change cycles -- puberty isn't the only one.

It has nothing to do with vaccinations -- other than coincidence timing.

And I am sure you have a PHD in a relevant field to be that certain , right ?

a reply to: Gothmog

I bet Some People here on ATS Think I am just Crazy for some of the Stuff I Post on here , and I am . Crazy Freakin' SANE that Is Gothmogster................*)

originally posted by: Gothmog

originally posted by: Annee

originally posted by: camain
a reply to: littlecorn

My first wife and I were pro vaccination. I had a 3 year old daughter, talking, reading, potty trained, very bright. took her in to get her vaccinations, 2 days later she stopped talking, stopped being potty training, didn't read anymore. took her to the doctor, said it was the fever that accompanied the shot. Not the shot.

OK, 20 years later, she has emotional issues, occasionally bed wets, and has emotional issues, and is on the autism spectrum. 20 years of reading all the evidence, and here is my take. A vaccination is like taking a sledge hammer to a finishing nail. Most people your fine if your careful. However everyone's DNA is different, they absorb the chemicals differently, and the reality is not everyone will have the same reaction. Put simply the vax I gave my daughter hit her body hard and caused harm. Now you say, well there is no proof. The proof is in what she was, and what she is now, and what she could have been. Now you say, well there is compensation for that. No sir, there is absolutely not, you have to show evidence beyond a shadow of doubt proving it was the vaccine, and for most that evidence doesn't exist, or is disregarded by a system setup NOT to pay for long term care. It is what it is. Would I get my kids vaxed again, yes, would I do it on the schedule HELL NO, would I make sure their immune system was as strong as possible and that they were healthy, absolutely. Am I anti-vax, I am anti-stupid, and the reality is you are putting a pile of $%$^ into the veins of your little one, and you don't know what could happen. The evidence says most are safe, doesn't mean all, and doesn't mean they need 3 vax all at once. Go slow, be healthy, and plan it out. Give the body time to adjust and heal. These are things that didn't exist 20 years ago. The do now. I am not saying don't get vaxxed, i am saying take your time, eat healthy, and go slowly. Even then people react differently and because of that you need to be careful. If you have a history of reactions to vax, might want to look carefully.

Camain

There is a type of Autism that shows itself about age 3.

It appears by showing decline in abilities and speach.

The body goes through change cycles -- puberty isn't the only one.

It has nothing to do with vaccinations -- other than coincidence timing.

And I am sure you have a PHD in a relevant field to be that certain , right ?

Generally, when you're raising a child with a disability you read/research everything you can get your hands on.

Knowledge learned from the knowledgeable.