My problem with anti vaxxers

I hope this thread sticks around because I plan to use all the data I can get for a book. The sociological/psychological insights we can gain regarding mob rule/mass psychosis/gaslighting/brainwashing and confirmation bias is evident here as it is in the macrocosm.

In spite of the admissions from lord Fauci himself, the covidians still believe.

Amazing, really.

The only question that needs an answer from the PRO-VAXERS.

Do you feel that you were LIED to by the "EXPERTS" or do you think that it was just "the science evolving"? The reason for this question is that in just two short years almost everything that the "EXPERTS" initially claimed about this virus and experimental injection have been PROVEN to be absolutely false.

originally posted by: panoz77
The only question that needs an answer from the PRO-VAXERS.

Do you feel that you were LIED to by the "EXPERTS" or do you think that it was just "the science evolving"?

The problem with taking "evolving Science" to heart (LITERALLY)...is you risk personally becoming an evolutionary dead-end.

a reply to: panoz77

When I saw the 'experts' comparing health stats from various countries in Europe that had different definitions for degrees of illness etc., it was clear the information being put out was an apples-and-oranges mix from which one could draw only the roughest of conclusions.

It was one of many indicators that the pro-vax crowd was weighting the scales in their favor; and, of course, that was not a confidence builder in the value of their message.

Cheers

originally posted by: littlecorn
So I have been following the anti vax on and off for some time. On the face of it it seems potentially dangerous to inject a vaccine that has been developed so quickly, so I'm interested in information from all sides.

I find anti vac arguments come in 2 ways.

1. The first is anecdotal evidence. By this I mean someone posts about their friend/cousin relative etc who wasn't well after the vaccine. There are millions even billions of people vaccinated and one or two personal examples cannot affect the statistical numbers vaccinated.

2. A link to a source is provided, say a doctor or a statistician. When the professional is researched they always it seems end up with dubious reputations and a history of discredited practices.

So what I would like to know is, is there any actual evidence that isn't about some unknown friend or from a professional without a history of strange beliefs?

 

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PLEASE READ

Two problems that seem pretty obvious with your points. One since there are no studies and any negative information is censored damn near all information will be anecdotal.

Second, do you know what they call the student that finished last in their medical school rankings? Doctor. They are still smarter than you. You have to know information is being censored and authority figures that go against the grain risk everything. But they still do it. You know that if there are no downside to this vaccine it would be the first ever. They are not all wrong. You have to be better than that.

It seems you maybe suffering from being fooled because it’s easier to fool someone than to convince them they have been fooled. My dad got it and had a heart attack. Nearly killed him. They know what did it and refused to get any more. They won’t say it was bad because they believe it would make them look foolish.

originally posted by: panoz77
The only question that needs an answer from the PRO-VAXERS.

Do you feel that you were LIED to by the "EXPERTS" or do you think that it was just "the science evolving"? The reason for this question is that in just two short years almost everything that the "EXPERTS" initially claimed about this virus and experimental injection have been PROVEN to be absolutely false.

My Son-in-Law was an athletic, 32 yr. old, pro-vaxxer...UNTIL he got the jab.
Immediately afterward he developed heart problems.

He is now on long-term meds for it...and is no longer an advocate for the vax.

My then pregnant daughter and their young son refused the Jab...even after his Leftist parents' urging to get it.
She and my two young grandsons are all completely healthy.

originally posted by: Blaine91555
a reply to: littlecorn
...nor do I think the whole pharmaceutical industry and medical industries are out to kill all of us, including their own families and loved ones.

Of course they aren't, they are out to make money, that should scare you just as much.

a reply to: iwanttobelieve70

It seems you maybe suffering from being fooled because it’s easier to fool someone than to convince them they have been fooled. My dad got it and had a heart attack. Nearly killed him. They know what did it and refused to get any more. They won’t say it was bad because they believe it would make them look foolish.

It really is that simple .

People were tricked and allowed a needle penetrate there skin , and on the inside they hate themselves for allowing it to happen but on the outside they hate everyone else who would not be tricked.

It's simple Freudian Psychology .

a reply to: zosimov
I would love to read your book once it's finished and honored in any stage in between.

originally posted by: Annee
Been waiting for this thread. Thanks.

And I hope for realistic discussion.

Of what? Most of the people I know still getting COVID are fully vaxxed and fully boosted. Some of them are on their 3rd rounds of COVID.

I have had the first 2 shots early, nothing else, and still have yet to get COVID.

One of these people is a fully dedicated gym rat.

a reply to: littlecorn

We all know that any medicine has some level of risk associated. Hell, it is even possible to suffer from water toxicity!

But the degree of push back against what are very benign substances by people who believe that billions are going to die is out of balance.

To be truthful, there have been adverse reactions and even some deaths probably attributable to the vaccines, but they are so infinitesimally few in comparison to doses delivered, so as to be negligible.

The other thing is these anti-vaxxers only have the official figures to go on to make their arguments, but when you show the true numbers in context, they immediately deny the same official data (that their arguments are based upon), because "you can't trust the authorities".

LOL

originally posted by: JAGStorm
a reply to: littlecorn

Here’s the reality, and one that most don’t want to admit.

Some people have/will die of Covid
Some people have/will die from the vaccines

We will probably never know the true numbers to either.
We will probably never know if the vaccines could have greatly helped some while maybe harming others, ie, older people vs younger, comorbidities etc.

I know for sure, it shouldn’t have been forced and people should not have lost their jobs over it. That was wrong.

But we do know that roughly millions of people have died from COVID-19.

And we do know that possibly thousands of people may have died from the vaccines.

And we know that the vaccines significantly reduced the ratio of deaths of those infected with COVID-19.

a reply to: chr0naut

Confused how do you know that people would not have just survived the SARS-COV-2 infection without the jab?

A SARS-COV-2 infection is not a killer infection, the response by the different immune systems to different amounts of the initial viral load shows us people respond differently. VERY FEW die of only a SARS-COV-2 infection.

The world is safe because on new years eve for 24 hours straight around the world everyone scares away the Space dragons with Noise and fireworks.

There by saving billions of lives. Is as accurate as the statement you made on jabs saving lives.

originally posted by: puzzled2
a reply to: chr0naut

Confused how do you know that people would not have just survived the SARS-COV-2 infection without the jab?

A SARS-COV-2 infection is not a killer infection, the response by the different immune systems to different amounts of the initial viral load shows us people respond differently. VERY FEW die of only a SARS-COV-2 infection.

The world is safe because on new years eve for 24 hours straight around the world everyone scares away the Space dragons with Noise and fireworks.

There by saving billions of lives. Is as accurate as the statement you made on jabs saving lives.

He's doesn't he's making it up. Theres zero evidence that shows that some health teenager would have died from Covid if they weren't vaxxt. But there is mountains showing they have a huge risk of dying from a myriad of complications from the vaxx now or in time, like myocarditis.

originally posted by: chr0naut

originally posted by: JAGStorm
a reply to: littlecorn

Here’s the reality, and one that most don’t want to admit.

Some people have/will die of Covid
Some people have/will die from the vaccines

We will probably never know the true numbers to either.
We will probably never know if the vaccines could have greatly helped some while maybe harming others, ie, older people vs younger, comorbidities etc.

I know for sure, it shouldn’t have been forced and people should not have lost their jobs over it. That was wrong.

But we do know that roughly millions of people have died from COVID-19.

And we do know that possibly thousands of people may have died from the vaccines.

And we know that the vaccines significantly reduced the ratio of deaths of those infected with COVID-19.

Do you know that they don’t count vaccination deaths and Covid deaths the same way?

The Covid number is less than 6% of the Covid death totals. That it is not far out of line from vac deaths. Now if you just want to count all deaths of people that got the vaccine that died within 3 months as a vaccine death as they did with Covid the numbers will be a lot closer.

You have to know they are doing this. You are not dumb, right? Why are the numbers always wrong and always in the same direction? They just approved the fifth 5 dose and it was tested on 8 mice. That’s it. 8 mice as a test group for all the world and I will bet you dollars to donuts that those 8 mice were only give that one dose and not the 4 before as well.

Use you head for more than a hat rack people. Don’t let math scare you.

originally posted by: DAVID64

originally posted by: Annee

originally posted by: Oldcarpy2
a reply to: TDDAgain

See what I mean?

Some evidence, perhaps?

I'm with you.

I honestly don't think I've read any legitimate, factual, reason for anti-vax.

Other than perhaps -- "I don't want to".

DAMN. When it comes to the vaccines, "My Body My Choice" sure goes to hell quick, doesn't it ?
It simply amazes me that people can be such hypocrites and not realize it.

Yep that and I would argue that natural immunity is as good a reason as any to not take the "vaccine". No convoluted medical report required if we are being honest...

originally posted by: littlecorn
So I have been following the anti vax on and off for some time. On the face of it it seems potentially dangerous to inject a vaccine that has been developed so quickly, so I'm interested in information from all sides.

I find anti vac arguments come in 2 ways.

1. The first is anecdotal evidence. By this I mean someone posts about their friend/cousin relative etc who wasn't well after the vaccine. There are millions even billions of people vaccinated and one or two personal examples cannot affect the statistical numbers vaccinated.

2. A link to a source is provided, say a doctor or a statistician. When the professional is researched they always it seems end up with dubious reputations and a history of discredited practices.

So what I would like to know is, is there any actual evidence that isn't about some unknown friend or from a professional without a history of strange beliefs?

That's a fine example, of backwards and sideways argumentation.

Before we ever get to the question : " Why not ? "

We need to settle the question : " Why ? "

The only address to that question, was Lies™, Propaganda™, Deception™, and Fearmongering™.

There was no conversation.

There was no debate.

There was no second-opinion.

Those that think like that : never even considered taking the Jab™.

But it goes much deeper than that.
You see : many of us here, knew right from the beginning, that we were dealing with a Psyop™ Scamdemic™.

The whole skip-show was lit-up by red-flags.

So let me ask you a question : Why are you not wearing a winter-parka right now ?

Why not ?
What's wrong ?
It protects you !

Why are you not wearing a condom right now ?
Why ?
It's recognized protection !

originally posted by: Annee

originally posted by: camain
a reply to: littlecorn

My first wife and I were pro vaccination. I had a 3 year old daughter, talking, reading, potty trained, very bright. took her in to get her vaccinations, 2 days later she stopped talking, stopped being potty training, didn't read anymore. took her to the doctor, said it was the fever that accompanied the shot. Not the shot.

OK, 20 years later, she has emotional issues, occasionally bed wets, and has emotional issues, and is on the autism spectrum. 20 years of reading all the evidence, and here is my take. A vaccination is like taking a sledge hammer to a finishing nail. Most people your fine if your careful. However everyone's DNA is different, they absorb the chemicals differently, and the reality is not everyone will have the same reaction. Put simply the vax I gave my daughter hit her body hard and caused harm. Now you say, well there is no proof. The proof is in what she was, and what she is now, and what she could have been. Now you say, well there is compensation for that. No sir, there is absolutely not, you have to show evidence beyond a shadow of doubt proving it was the vaccine, and for most that evidence doesn't exist, or is disregarded by a system setup NOT to pay for long term care. It is what it is. Would I get my kids vaxed again, yes, would I do it on the schedule HELL NO, would I make sure their immune system was as strong as possible and that they were healthy, absolutely. Am I anti-vax, I am anti-stupid, and the reality is you are putting a pile of $%$^ into the veins of your little one, and you don't know what could happen. The evidence says most are safe, doesn't mean all, and doesn't mean they need 3 vax all at once. Go slow, be healthy, and plan it out. Give the body time to adjust and heal. These are things that didn't exist 20 years ago. The do now. I am not saying don't get vaxxed, i am saying take your time, eat healthy, and go slowly. Even then people react differently and because of that you need to be careful. If you have a history of reactions to vax, might want to look carefully.

Camain

There is a type of Autism that shows itself about age 3.

It appears by showing decline in abilities and speach.

The body goes through change cycles -- puberty isn't the only one.

It has nothing to do with vaccinations -- other than coincidence timing.

Regressive Autism – Why It Occurs: www.autismparentingmagazine.com...

Coinky-dinky ?

How many non-Vaxxed™ children developed this condition ?

Did it exist before the Vaxx-Sched™ ?

You are at least slightly aware, that the Medical-Mafia™ is well known for denying Side-Effects™, and inventing new diseases to cover-up medical damage to the body, no ?

Do you understand the crushing forces, that are unleashed on anyone trying to challenge Vaccines™ Legally™, or with any Professional™ Associations™, or Governments™ ?

originally posted by: puzzled2
a reply to: chr0naut

Confused how do you know that people would not have just survived the SARS-COV-2 infection without the jab?

Because before the vaccines were available, it was established that a significant percentage of those who caught the disease, died. This was evident across numerous countries, even in first-world countries where healthcare and diet are superior to others.

A SARS-COV-2 infection is not a killer infection

Rubbish. A significant percentage of people died from the disease, as recorded in cause of death on death certificates by very numerous numbers of medically qualified people.

, the response by the different immune systems to different amounts of the initial viral load shows us people respond differently. VERY FEW die of only a SARS-COV-2 infection.

According to the Johns Hopkins Coronavirus dashboard, 6,494,786 people have died from the disease to date. That represents 1.077% of those who have been registered as being positive with the disease. Greater than one out of every hundred, dead from the disease.

And whether people died of the disease alone, or of a mix of diseases including COVID-19, they are dead with it as a primary cause of death.

The world is safe because on new years eve for 24 hours straight around the world everyone scares away the Space dragons with Noise and fireworks.

There by saving billions of lives. Is as accurate as the statement you made on jabs saving lives.

The space dragons are not COVID-19. Any perceived safety from something else, is only safety from something else, not from all things.

Your reasoning is not reasonable.

originally posted by: iwanttobelieve70

originally posted by: chr0naut

originally posted by: JAGStorm
a reply to: littlecorn

Here’s the reality, and one that most don’t want to admit.

Some people have/will die of Covid
Some people have/will die from the vaccines

We will probably never know the true numbers to either.
We will probably never know if the vaccines could have greatly helped some while maybe harming others, ie, older people vs younger, comorbidities etc.

I know for sure, it shouldn’t have been forced and people should not have lost their jobs over it. That was wrong.

But we do know that roughly millions of people have died from COVID-19.

And we do know that possibly thousands of people may have died from the vaccines.

And we know that the vaccines significantly reduced the ratio of deaths of those infected with COVID-19.

Do you know that they don’t count vaccination deaths and Covid deaths the same way?

Yes.

The Covid number is less than 6% of the Covid death totals.

Actually, that 6% were those who died of COVID-19 alone, with no other comorbidities. People who died with COVID-19 as a primary cause of death on their death certificates still died of COVID-19, even with comorbidities.

But even that may have been the case only in very early CDC totals. The CDC changed their methodology for COVID-19 death reporting on death certificates back in February 2020, precisely because of that allegation.

That it is not far out of line from vac deaths. Now if you just want to count all deaths of people that got the vaccine that died within 3 months as a vaccine death as they did with Covid the numbers will be a lot closer.

Based upon what? You just made up a number and you are expecting me to believe it?

Let me explain, although minor adverse reactions may be unlikely to be recorded in VAERS and similar, really important deaths data, entered by medical staff, tasked with recording such deaths, would not have omitted such reporting. Due to its importance. At this time where there are an estimated 604,665,888 doses delivered in the US, there are only 16,924 deaths reported in VARES post a coronavirus vaccine. 2.7 chances of death in 100,000 doses (0.0027% of all doses given).

You have to know they are doing this. You are not dumb, right? Why are the numbers always wrong and always in the same direction? They just approved the fifth 5 dose and it was tested on 8 mice. That’s it. 8 mice as a test group for all the world and I will bet you dollars to donuts that those 8 mice were only give that one dose and not the 4 before as well.

Rubbish. To get to stage 3 it was tested in human clinical trials. In total, more than 30,000 study participants per vaccine product took part in the pivotal (decisive) clinical trial.

Use you head for more than a hat rack people. Don’t let math scare you.

Indeed!