My problem with anti vaxxers

a reply to: Oldcarpy2

Your Brother , Sister in Law , Your Best Friend from College , The Kid you Knew in Highschool that Dared you to " Eat That " , and Anybody that Knows you Really Well ................*_)

originally posted by: Annee

originally posted by: Gothmog

originally posted by: Annee

originally posted by: camain
a reply to: littlecorn

My first wife and I were pro vaccination. I had a 3 year old daughter, talking, reading, potty trained, very bright. took her in to get her vaccinations, 2 days later she stopped talking, stopped being potty training, didn't read anymore. took her to the doctor, said it was the fever that accompanied the shot. Not the shot.

OK, 20 years later, she has emotional issues, occasionally bed wets, and has emotional issues, and is on the autism spectrum. 20 years of reading all the evidence, and here is my take. A vaccination is like taking a sledge hammer to a finishing nail. Most people your fine if your careful. However everyone's DNA is different, they absorb the chemicals differently, and the reality is not everyone will have the same reaction. Put simply the vax I gave my daughter hit her body hard and caused harm. Now you say, well there is no proof. The proof is in what she was, and what she is now, and what she could have been. Now you say, well there is compensation for that. No sir, there is absolutely not, you have to show evidence beyond a shadow of doubt proving it was the vaccine, and for most that evidence doesn't exist, or is disregarded by a system setup NOT to pay for long term care. It is what it is. Would I get my kids vaxed again, yes, would I do it on the schedule HELL NO, would I make sure their immune system was as strong as possible and that they were healthy, absolutely. Am I anti-vax, I am anti-stupid, and the reality is you are putting a pile of $%$^ into the veins of your little one, and you don't know what could happen. The evidence says most are safe, doesn't mean all, and doesn't mean they need 3 vax all at once. Go slow, be healthy, and plan it out. Give the body time to adjust and heal. These are things that didn't exist 20 years ago. The do now. I am not saying don't get vaxxed, i am saying take your time, eat healthy, and go slowly. Even then people react differently and because of that you need to be careful. If you have a history of reactions to vax, might want to look carefully.

Camain

There is a type of Autism that shows itself about age 3.

It appears by showing decline in abilities and speach.

The body goes through change cycles -- puberty isn't the only one.

It has nothing to do with vaccinations -- other than coincidence timing.

And I am sure you have a PHD in a relevant field to be that certain , right ?

Generally, when you're raising a child with a disability you read/research everything you can get your hands on.

Knowledge learned from the knowledgeable.

But , in the end , you make the choice , right ?
Or , are you willing to take just any advice ?
And that depends on your definition of "knowledgeable" .
One's neighbor may not qualify .

originally posted by: Annee

originally posted by: Gothmog

originally posted by: Annee

originally posted by: camain
a reply to: littlecorn

My first wife and I were pro vaccination. I had a 3 year old daughter, talking, reading, potty trained, very bright. took her in to get her vaccinations, 2 days later she stopped talking, stopped being potty training, didn't read anymore. took her to the doctor, said it was the fever that accompanied the shot. Not the shot.

OK, 20 years later, she has emotional issues, occasionally bed wets, and has emotional issues, and is on the autism spectrum. 20 years of reading all the evidence, and here is my take. A vaccination is like taking a sledge hammer to a finishing nail. Most people your fine if your careful. However everyone's DNA is different, they absorb the chemicals differently, and the reality is not everyone will have the same reaction. Put simply the vax I gave my daughter hit her body hard and caused harm. Now you say, well there is no proof. The proof is in what she was, and what she is now, and what she could have been. Now you say, well there is compensation for that. No sir, there is absolutely not, you have to show evidence beyond a shadow of doubt proving it was the vaccine, and for most that evidence doesn't exist, or is disregarded by a system setup NOT to pay for long term care. It is what it is. Would I get my kids vaxed again, yes, would I do it on the schedule HELL NO, would I make sure their immune system was as strong as possible and that they were healthy, absolutely. Am I anti-vax, I am anti-stupid, and the reality is you are putting a pile of $%$^ into the veins of your little one, and you don't know what could happen. The evidence says most are safe, doesn't mean all, and doesn't mean they need 3 vax all at once. Go slow, be healthy, and plan it out. Give the body time to adjust and heal. These are things that didn't exist 20 years ago. The do now. I am not saying don't get vaxxed, i am saying take your time, eat healthy, and go slowly. Even then people react differently and because of that you need to be careful. If you have a history of reactions to vax, might want to look carefully.

Camain

There is a type of Autism that shows itself about age 3.

It appears by showing decline in abilities and speach.

The body goes through change cycles -- puberty isn't the only one.

It has nothing to do with vaccinations -- other than coincidence timing.

And I am sure you have a PHD in a relevant field to be that certain , right ?

Generally, when you're raising a child with a disability you read/research everything you can get your hands on.

Knowledge learned from the knowledgeable.

Of course this allows you to make highly questionable, snap diagnosis over the internet about someone else's child? No, no it doesn't.

Not to mention, the person you were responding to raised a child with a disability, which gives them the same qualifications, but apparently you know more about their child than they do.

Ok then.

a reply to: Annee

Tell me Ann , and be Truthfully HONEST . Do you Personally Think I am Somehow Crazy for Not wanting to put a Foreign Substance into my Body " Temple " Because I have Surmised it could have Unknown Toxic Ingredients that could Prove Harmful to my PRESENT Overall Good Health Dear ? ............*)

originally posted by: [Annee]

Yes, it's strange to me .. you have to be a professor to know something but then professors are mocked for being 'part of the system'

There's nothing wrongs with learning from experts, indeed it's quite wise.
[

originally posted by: Gothmog

originally posted by: Annee

originally posted by: Gothmog

originally posted by: Annee

originally posted by: camain
a reply to: littlecorn

My first wife and I were pro vaccination. I had a 3 year old daughter, talking, reading, potty trained, very bright. took her in to get her vaccinations, 2 days later she stopped talking, stopped being potty training, didn't read anymore. took her to the doctor, said it was the fever that accompanied the shot. Not the shot.

OK, 20 years later, she has emotional issues, occasionally bed wets, and has emotional issues, and is on the autism spectrum. 20 years of reading all the evidence, and here is my take. A vaccination is like taking a sledge hammer to a finishing nail. Most people your fine if your careful. However everyone's DNA is different, they absorb the chemicals differently, and the reality is not everyone will have the same reaction. Put simply the vax I gave my daughter hit her body hard and caused harm. Now you say, well there is no proof. The proof is in what she was, and what she is now, and what she could have been. Now you say, well there is compensation for that. No sir, there is absolutely not, you have to show evidence beyond a shadow of doubt proving it was the vaccine, and for most that evidence doesn't exist, or is disregarded by a system setup NOT to pay for long term care. It is what it is. Would I get my kids vaxed again, yes, would I do it on the schedule HELL NO, would I make sure their immune system was as strong as possible and that they were healthy, absolutely. Am I anti-vax, I am anti-stupid, and the reality is you are putting a pile of $%$^ into the veins of your little one, and you don't know what could happen. The evidence says most are safe, doesn't mean all, and doesn't mean they need 3 vax all at once. Go slow, be healthy, and plan it out. Give the body time to adjust and heal. These are things that didn't exist 20 years ago. The do now. I am not saying don't get vaxxed, i am saying take your time, eat healthy, and go slowly. Even then people react differently and because of that you need to be careful. If you have a history of reactions to vax, might want to look carefully.

Camain

There is a type of Autism that shows itself about age 3.

It appears by showing decline in abilities and speach.

The body goes through change cycles -- puberty isn't the only one.

It has nothing to do with vaccinations -- other than coincidence timing.

And I am sure you have a PHD in a relevant field to be that certain , right ?

Generally, when you're raising a child with a disability you read/research everything you can get your hands on.

Knowledge learned from the knowledgeable.

But , in the end , you make the choice , right ?
Or , are you willing to take just any advice ?
And that depends on your definition of "knowledgeable" .
One's neighbor may not qualify .

Let's say your car is broken down and you are not a mechanic, do you not ask the mechanic for their opinion?

originally posted by: littlecorn

originally posted by: [Annee]

Yes, it's strange to me .. you have to be a professor to know something but then professors are mocked for being 'part of the system'

There's nothing wrongs with learning from experts, indeed it's quite wise.
[

Qualified experts .
Like one's own doctor .
Not a government representative well paid to express "chosen" views . (not their own)

originally posted by: littlecorn

originally posted by: Gothmog

originally posted by: Annee

originally posted by: Gothmog

originally posted by: Annee

originally posted by: camain
a reply to: littlecorn

My first wife and I were pro vaccination. I had a 3 year old daughter, talking, reading, potty trained, very bright. took her in to get her vaccinations, 2 days later she stopped talking, stopped being potty training, didn't read anymore. took her to the doctor, said it was the fever that accompanied the shot. Not the shot.

OK, 20 years later, she has emotional issues, occasionally bed wets, and has emotional issues, and is on the autism spectrum. 20 years of reading all the evidence, and here is my take. A vaccination is like taking a sledge hammer to a finishing nail. Most people your fine if your careful. However everyone's DNA is different, they absorb the chemicals differently, and the reality is not everyone will have the same reaction. Put simply the vax I gave my daughter hit her body hard and caused harm. Now you say, well there is no proof. The proof is in what she was, and what she is now, and what she could have been. Now you say, well there is compensation for that. No sir, there is absolutely not, you have to show evidence beyond a shadow of doubt proving it was the vaccine, and for most that evidence doesn't exist, or is disregarded by a system setup NOT to pay for long term care. It is what it is. Would I get my kids vaxed again, yes, would I do it on the schedule HELL NO, would I make sure their immune system was as strong as possible and that they were healthy, absolutely. Am I anti-vax, I am anti-stupid, and the reality is you are putting a pile of $%$^ into the veins of your little one, and you don't know what could happen. The evidence says most are safe, doesn't mean all, and doesn't mean they need 3 vax all at once. Go slow, be healthy, and plan it out. Give the body time to adjust and heal. These are things that didn't exist 20 years ago. The do now. I am not saying don't get vaxxed, i am saying take your time, eat healthy, and go slowly. Even then people react differently and because of that you need to be careful. If you have a history of reactions to vax, might want to look carefully.

Camain

There is a type of Autism that shows itself about age 3.

It appears by showing decline in abilities and speach.

The body goes through change cycles -- puberty isn't the only one.

It has nothing to do with vaccinations -- other than coincidence timing.

And I am sure you have a PHD in a relevant field to be that certain , right ?

Generally, when you're raising a child with a disability you read/research everything you can get your hands on.

Knowledge learned from the knowledgeable.

But , in the end , you make the choice , right ?
Or , are you willing to take just any advice ?
And that depends on your definition of "knowledgeable" .
One's neighbor may not qualify .

Let's say your car is broken down and you are not a mechanic, do you not ask the mechanic for their opinion?

Not a very well thought out simile.
Huge difference between my vehicle and my life .
I can buy another vehicle .
And I don't trust just any goofball with either .
Get it ?
Got it ?
Good .

originally posted by: littlecorn
So I have been following the anti vax on and off for some time. On the face of it it seems potentially dangerous to inject a vaccine that has been developed so quickly, so I'm interested in information from all sides.

I find anti vac arguments come in 2 ways.

1. The first is anecdotal evidence. By this I mean someone posts about their friend/cousin relative etc who wasn't well after the vaccine. There are millions even billions of people vaccinated and one or two personal examples cannot affect the statistical numbers vaccinated.

2. A link to a source is provided, say a doctor or a statistician. When the professional is researched they always it seems end up with dubious reputations and a history of discredited practices.

So what I would like to know is, is there any actual evidence that isn't about some unknown friend or from a professional without a history of strange beliefs?

They pay you $100 to take it

They put you in a lottery with a 1 Million dollar payment to the winner if you take it

They tell you life will be back to normal if you take it

Hmm sounds a little fishy no?

originally posted by: Zanti Misfit
a reply to: Annee

Tell me Ann , and be Truthfully HONEST . Do you Personally Think I am Somehow Crazy for Not wanting to put a Foreign Substance into my Body " Temple " Because I have Surmised it could have Unknown Toxic Ingredients that could Prove Harmful to my PRESENT Overall Good Health Dear ? ............*)

Honestly, it is a difficult dilemma.

I can understand the personal position of not being forced.

I personally am pro science and pro "stop the spread".

Spock: “The Needs of the Many Outweigh the Needs of the Few”

My bother did die from Covid. He was a MAGA -- I don't know if he was vaccinated, probably not. Would it have saved him? We'll never know.

originally posted by: Gothmog

originally posted by: littlecorn

originally posted by: Gothmog

originally posted by: Annee

originally posted by: Gothmog

originally posted by: Annee

originally posted by: camain
a reply to: littlecorn

My first wife and I were pro vaccination. I had a 3 year old daughter, talking, reading, potty trained, very bright. took her in to get her vaccinations, 2 days later she stopped talking, stopped being potty training, didn't read anymore. took her to the doctor, said it was the fever that accompanied the shot. Not the shot.

OK, 20 years later, she has emotional issues, occasionally bed wets, and has emotional issues, and is on the autism spectrum. 20 years of reading all the evidence, and here is my take. A vaccination is like taking a sledge hammer to a finishing nail. Most people your fine if your careful. However everyone's DNA is different, they absorb the chemicals differently, and the reality is not everyone will have the same reaction. Put simply the vax I gave my daughter hit her body hard and caused harm. Now you say, well there is no proof. The proof is in what she was, and what she is now, and what she could have been. Now you say, well there is compensation for that. No sir, there is absolutely not, you have to show evidence beyond a shadow of doubt proving it was the vaccine, and for most that evidence doesn't exist, or is disregarded by a system setup NOT to pay for long term care. It is what it is. Would I get my kids vaxed again, yes, would I do it on the schedule HELL NO, would I make sure their immune system was as strong as possible and that they were healthy, absolutely. Am I anti-vax, I am anti-stupid, and the reality is you are putting a pile of $%$^ into the veins of your little one, and you don't know what could happen. The evidence says most are safe, doesn't mean all, and doesn't mean they need 3 vax all at once. Go slow, be healthy, and plan it out. Give the body time to adjust and heal. These are things that didn't exist 20 years ago. The do now. I am not saying don't get vaxxed, i am saying take your time, eat healthy, and go slowly. Even then people react differently and because of that you need to be careful. If you have a history of reactions to vax, might want to look carefully.

Camain

There is a type of Autism that shows itself about age 3.

It appears by showing decline in abilities and speach.

The body goes through change cycles -- puberty isn't the only one.

It has nothing to do with vaccinations -- other than coincidence timing.

And I am sure you have a PHD in a relevant field to be that certain , right ?

Generally, when you're raising a child with a disability you read/research everything you can get your hands on.

Knowledge learned from the knowledgeable.

But , in the end , you make the choice , right ?
Or , are you willing to take just any advice ?
And that depends on your definition of "knowledgeable" .
One's neighbor may not qualify .

Let's say your car is broken down and you are not a mechanic, do you not ask the mechanic for their opinion?

Not a very well thought out simile.
Huge difference between my vehicle and my life .
I can but another vehicle .
And I don't trust just any goofball with either .
Get it ?
Got it ?
Good .

you have a very confrontational manner

a reply to: Annee

I personally am pro science and pro "stop the spread".

Even the CDC has shot that one down .
Done .
Next .

originally posted by: littlecorn

originally posted by: Gothmog

originally posted by: littlecorn

originally posted by: Gothmog

originally posted by: Annee

originally posted by: Gothmog

originally posted by: Annee

originally posted by: camain
a reply to: littlecorn

My first wife and I were pro vaccination. I had a 3 year old daughter, talking, reading, potty trained, very bright. took her in to get her vaccinations, 2 days later she stopped talking, stopped being potty training, didn't read anymore. took her to the doctor, said it was the fever that accompanied the shot. Not the shot.

OK, 20 years later, she has emotional issues, occasionally bed wets, and has emotional issues, and is on the autism spectrum. 20 years of reading all the evidence, and here is my take. A vaccination is like taking a sledge hammer to a finishing nail. Most people your fine if your careful. However everyone's DNA is different, they absorb the chemicals differently, and the reality is not everyone will have the same reaction. Put simply the vax I gave my daughter hit her body hard and caused harm. Now you say, well there is no proof. The proof is in what she was, and what she is now, and what she could have been. Now you say, well there is compensation for that. No sir, there is absolutely not, you have to show evidence beyond a shadow of doubt proving it was the vaccine, and for most that evidence doesn't exist, or is disregarded by a system setup NOT to pay for long term care. It is what it is. Would I get my kids vaxed again, yes, would I do it on the schedule HELL NO, would I make sure their immune system was as strong as possible and that they were healthy, absolutely. Am I anti-vax, I am anti-stupid, and the reality is you are putting a pile of $%$^ into the veins of your little one, and you don't know what could happen. The evidence says most are safe, doesn't mean all, and doesn't mean they need 3 vax all at once. Go slow, be healthy, and plan it out. Give the body time to adjust and heal. These are things that didn't exist 20 years ago. The do now. I am not saying don't get vaxxed, i am saying take your time, eat healthy, and go slowly. Even then people react differently and because of that you need to be careful. If you have a history of reactions to vax, might want to look carefully.

Camain

There is a type of Autism that shows itself about age 3.

It appears by showing decline in abilities and speach.

The body goes through change cycles -- puberty isn't the only one.

It has nothing to do with vaccinations -- other than coincidence timing.

And I am sure you have a PHD in a relevant field to be that certain , right ?

Generally, when you're raising a child with a disability you read/research everything you can get your hands on.

Knowledge learned from the knowledgeable.

But , in the end , you make the choice , right ?
Or , are you willing to take just any advice ?
And that depends on your definition of "knowledgeable" .
One's neighbor may not qualify .

Let's say your car is broken down and you are not a mechanic, do you not ask the mechanic for their opinion?

Not a very well thought out simile.
Huge difference between my vehicle and my life .
I can but another vehicle .
And I don't trust just any goofball with either .
Get it ?
Got it ?
Good .

you have a very confrontational manner

There is a huge difference between "confrontational" and "truthful"
Some folks have issues figuring that one out .
Not my fault .

So .... conclusion.

Anti vaxxers post no compelling information to support their case, instead make emotional appeals and insult you if your logic is a threat to them.

Thanks guys for the thread.

originally posted by: MykeNukem

originally posted by: Annee

originally posted by: Gothmog

originally posted by: Annee

originally posted by: camain
a reply to: littlecorn

My first wife and I were pro vaccination. I had a 3 year old daughter, talking, reading, potty trained, very bright. took her in to get her vaccinations, 2 days later she stopped talking, stopped being potty training, didn't read anymore. took her to the doctor, said it was the fever that accompanied the shot. Not the shot.

OK, 20 years later, she has emotional issues, occasionally bed wets, and has emotional issues, and is on the autism spectrum. 20 years of reading all the evidence, and here is my take. A vaccination is like taking a sledge hammer to a finishing nail. Most people your fine if your careful. However everyone's DNA is different, they absorb the chemicals differently, and the reality is not everyone will have the same reaction. Put simply the vax I gave my daughter hit her body hard and caused harm. Now you say, well there is no proof. The proof is in what she was, and what she is now, and what she could have been. Now you say, well there is compensation for that. No sir, there is absolutely not, you have to show evidence beyond a shadow of doubt proving it was the vaccine, and for most that evidence doesn't exist, or is disregarded by a system setup NOT to pay for long term care. It is what it is. Would I get my kids vaxed again, yes, would I do it on the schedule HELL NO, would I make sure their immune system was as strong as possible and that they were healthy, absolutely. Am I anti-vax, I am anti-stupid, and the reality is you are putting a pile of $%$^ into the veins of your little one, and you don't know what could happen. The evidence says most are safe, doesn't mean all, and doesn't mean they need 3 vax all at once. Go slow, be healthy, and plan it out. Give the body time to adjust and heal. These are things that didn't exist 20 years ago. The do now. I am not saying don't get vaxxed, i am saying take your time, eat healthy, and go slowly. Even then people react differently and because of that you need to be careful. If you have a history of reactions to vax, might want to look carefully.

Camain

There is a type of Autism that shows itself about age 3.

It appears by showing decline in abilities and speach.

The body goes through change cycles -- puberty isn't the only one.

It has nothing to do with vaccinations -- other than coincidence timing.

And I am sure you have a PHD in a relevant field to be that certain , right ?

Generally, when you're raising a child with a disability you read/research everything you can get your hands on.

Knowledge learned from the knowledgeable.

Of course this allows you to make highly questionable, snap diagnosis over the internet about someone else's child? No, no it doesn't.

Not to mention, the person you were responding to raised a child with a disability, which gives them the same qualifications, but apparently you know more about their child than they do.

Ok then.

I am raising an Autistic child.

I appreciate any and all info provided to me by any method, strangers, internet, etc.

If there is just one small tidbit in that info that I can use -- I'm grateful (even if there's not).

a reply to: Annee

Spock: “The Needs of the Many Outweigh the Needs of the Few”................................Or the ONE............

originally posted by: Zanti Misfit
a reply to: Annee

Spock: “The Needs of the Many Outweigh the Needs of the Few”................................Or the ONE............

Your version

originally posted by: littlecorn
So I have been following the anti vax on and off for some time. On the face of it it seems potentially dangerous to inject a vaccine that has been developed so quickly, so I'm interested in information from all sides.

I find anti vac arguments come in 2 ways.

1. The first is anecdotal evidence. By this I mean someone posts about their friend/cousin relative etc who wasn't well after the vaccine. There are millions even billions of people vaccinated and one or two personal examples cannot affect the statistical numbers vaccinated.

2. A link to a source is provided, say a doctor or a statistician. When the professional is researched they always it seems end up with dubious reputations and a history of discredited practices.

So what I would like to know is, is there any actual evidence that isn't about some unknown friend or from a professional without a history of strange beliefs?

Oh and it is great to neatly label everyone so that it is easy to make them look bad

Gotta group them all together and make them out to be crazy if they question the narrative just one bit

Anti Vaxxer

Tea Bagger

Maga

Birther

Gun Nut

Alt Right

I could go on

a reply to: littlecorn

You came her pretending to be neutral, only wanting information why some are anti-vax.

You have shown yourself to be not only pro-vax, but with a vendetta against all why dare to disagree with you.

Good job creating typical drama queen discord! Welcome to ATS.

Will your next thread be whining about why nobody can get along and how you long for peace?