My problem with anti vaxxers

a reply to: chr0naut
Lol, I accept 'The Crown' as the leader of the hardest gang on this island, I pay my taxes and it leaves me alone.
The covid 'vaccine' drugs have been offered to me, and I politely declined.
Nobody was legally forced to take the vaccine here, just massive coercion lol, and I'm yet to see any evidence that anyone healthy and young actually died of covid, certainly nobody has in my entire social circle in real life.
So, I'll leave you to be scared about the scary flu lol, only thing annoys me is I can't spend my money visiting some silly paranoid countries right now...coz I'm so potentially dangerous to import!🤣

a reply to: littlecorn

Here you go, from Wikipedia.

"A vaccine typically contains an agent that resembles a disease-causing microorganism and is often made from weakened or killed forms of the microbe, its toxins, or one of its surface proteins."

There is no reason to think such a thing can provide anything positive to your health. You cannot cure nor prevent disease with vaccines. It's like saying you can cure bloody noses by punching people in their noses.

a reply to: chr0naut

So all those people didn't die from a sar-cov-2 infection then?

They died from a group of aliments labelled as "covid-2 disease" regardless of vaccinated status.

If vaccines worked the All cause mortality would be below average not above.

How many vaccinated people also increase their health by taking steps to ensure their levels of Vitamin D etc were above the average level of those dying with a COVID-19 labelled reaction.

Perhaps that is the real answer - you will never know and yet you promote a remedy that costs billions and needs to be continually taken. Pity there isn't a control group of subjects who never took a jab to prove they are dying at a higher rate to warrant the costs of jabs.

a reply to: puzzled2

Pity there isn't a control group of subjects who never took a jab

The UK national database knows exactly which citizens are not vaccinated. We/they ARE the control group!🤣
I haven't had a letter 'advising' me to get vaccinated this year though yet, maybe they've realised it's a pointless waste of postage costs?

The pro poison babies group got lit up on this thread.

Fully “vaxxed” and “boosted” late twenties man gets Covid. He then infects his fully “vaxxed” and “boosted” wife. She then infects a woman in her late fifties who didn’t take an MRNA shot. That woman’s husband also gets Covid. Both couples had mild symptoms for a couple of days.

Please, tell me what the benefits were from the shots? The first couple got sick, so no help there from the shot. The first couple then spread Covid so no help there from the shot. Both couples had mild symptoms, so no help there from the shots. So, as far as I can tell, the shots were a total waste of money and also come with risks.

a reply to: iwanttobelieve70

Here is an interesting ultrasound of a vaxed placenta. Those white fibrous-looking bits are calcium build-up from inflammation. They do look a bit like the calamari O'looney was talking about. www.bitchute.com...

originally posted by: Zenchuck
a reply to: chr0naut

I'm going to make some bold anti-vaxx claims. Let me know which ones are false.

1. LNP can cross the BBB. LNP can cross the BPB.

Probably true, but may not be for all lipid nano-particles. research is ongoing.

2. LNP distributes itself throughout the organs of the body.

True.

3. mRNA delivered by LNP has been found in blood and tissue months past the date of injection (cells continue producing spike protein).

Untrue. mRNA simply does not have that longevity in the conditions of a living body.

What was measured was the presence of lipid encapsulated indicator (luciferene) in one study, and of the presence of the spike protein in another.

4. The formulation of the mRNA was unique in its replacement of uracil - the biological consequences of which are yet unknown.

Uracil is replaced by its DNA complement thymine in mRNA. In natural transcription, the reverse process occurs and thymine is converted to uracil in RNA. Since we know how thymine works in DNA chemistry, we know how it will work in mRNA chemistry.

Similarly, the many clinical and in-vitro testing phases after the fact would have identified if there was unknown biological consequence.

5. mRNA injection has been proven to cause heart damage.

No. There has been a slight statistical correlation between getting an injection, at about 2 chances in 1,000, and then suffering myocarditis. There is a far stronger statistical correlation between COVID-19 and myocarditis.

Correlation does not necessarily mean causation, especially in low incidences.

Myocarditis also is usually non fatal (in the most affected age groups, the chance of death from myocarditis when compared to those who have evidence of myocarditis, has been approximated to less than 20% of cases).

6. A recent study (published this month) shows 1 in 6 with heart rhythm changes. 7 in 301 with heart inflammation after an injection.

I haven't seen that study, so I can't comment. Can you please post a link to it.

7. No studies on safety have been performed in NZ.

In the information age, is that relevant at all?

8. NZ all cause mortality is 10-20% higher than the pre-pandemic average throughout 2022.

All cause mortality figures are extremely variable. For example in early July, 2019, when no people had COVID-19 in New Zealand, there were a peak of 29,404 deaths. In late July 2021, when COVID-19 cases were rising and very few New Zealander's were vaccinated against it, there was a peak of 29,724 deaths. Deaths continued to fall up until January 2022.

So far this year, the released all cause mortality numbers in New Zealand are lower than for most of the same periods during 2019.

9. All cause mortality throughout Europe is significantly higher throughout 2022 than it was pre-pandemic.

Doesn't that fit with the idea that there is, right now, a pandemic contributing to the numbers?

10. strategies were developed by behavioral scientists for the psychological manipulation of the public before the vaccines were given emergency use authorization. The division of society was institutionalized.

Have they worked on you and all the vaccine refuseniks, or is it actually just a ridiculous and baseless conspiracy theory because no-one is suddenly more compliant. If anything the 'post-truth' era instigated @ 2016 is evidence that people are less likely to comply and more likely to protest and distrust the government.

11. The vaccine does not/ did not limit spread of the disease.

www.youtube.com...

Vaccines work against infectious diseases by cumulatively reducing the populations resistant to the disease. They don't work by magic. They don't work instantly. They also don't work just because an initiative has been announced and not fully implemented.

Where vaccination campaigns have been effective against disease, it has taken decades (or longer), every time.

The vaccines reduce the virulence and the duration of of an infection in most cases. This works to inhibit transmission, but it doesn't, and cannot, stop it cold.

Vaccines work to promote a strong immune response to a pathogen. They don't put up a magic barrier to the pathogen. They don't make the pathogen disappear by magic. They don't even begin to work until that pathogen has entered your body and has begun to infect you.

a reply to: chr0naut

Thank you for your thoughtful response. Dialogue is what I have been looking for over the last 3 years.

So far this year, the released all cause mortality numbers in New Zealand are lower than for most of the same periods during 2019.

Am I reading these graphs the wrong way?

I haven't seen that study, so I can't comment. Can you please post a link to it.

Sure thing.
www.mdpi.com...

The vaccines reduce the virulence and the duration of of an infection in most cases.

I would appreciate a link to the study showing this.

I have a link to a small study published in NEJM which indicates the unvaccinated were less virulent for a shorter duration. The CI range does not lead to any firm conclusion, but the suggestion is there.

The question becomes, "where are the large scale studies showing this often parroted talking point?"

www.nejm.org...

the 'post-truth' era instigated @ 2016

Are you inferring that my skepticism is related to Donald Trump? Hardly.

For me skepticism of government and science began in 2011 when the allowable limit (set by FDA) of radioactive material in food was raised 100x and water by 1000x, based on a 30 day study of lab rats, and mere weeks after one of the largest radiological events in recent history.

originally posted by: puzzled2
a reply to: chr0naut

So all those people didn't die from a sar-cov-2 infection then?

If it was recorded as a primary cause of death, then they did.

They died from a group of aliments labelled as "covid-2 disease" regardless of vaccinated status.

No, that does not follow logically, either.

Usually, people who die of COVID-19 have a string of similar symptoms AND have tested positive for active antibodies, or have tested positive for the presence of the viral genomic sequence.

If vaccines worked the All cause mortality would be below average not above.

The vaccines only specifically work against the virus that causes COVID-19.

All cause mortality is caused by more things than just COVID-19.

So, all cause mortality can have vastly different than the numbers than those who are saved by a vaccine.

And, of course, a vaccine only works if you take it. None of the anti-vaxxers, or the vaccine hesitant, are protected by the mere existence of a vaccine.

So, despite the vaccines having a positive effect on reducing some of the all cause mortality numbers, the overall numbers depend entirely on factors far beyond the existence of a vaccine.

How many vaccinated people also increase their health by taking steps to ensure their levels of Vitamin D etc were above the average level of those dying with a COVID-19 labelled reaction.

Perhaps that is the real answer - you will never know and yet you promote a remedy that costs billions and needs to be continually taken. Pity there isn't a control group of subjects who never took a jab to prove they are dying at a higher rate to warrant the costs of jabs.

I have taken regular doses of vitamin D, zinc, vitamin C and vitamin E for years. It didn't stop me getting a mild case of COVID-19.

I think if you look at clinical trials, vitamins have been known to have only very slight effect against coronaviruses and most viral illnesses, for decades.

originally posted by: Sunsport
a reply to: Annee
The truth is "I don't want to" is a valid enough reason in the United States.

It should be, but, isn't.

a reply to: angeltone

for the UK the data tells it own story, 90m doses for the first 2 mostly then combing the next 3 its drops down to 30m doses implying a drop from +90% vaccinated down to just 10% willing to keep themselves up to date..

a reply to: littlecorn

The only “fact” you need to know about the vaccine is yours doesn’t work unless I get mine. Which I never will.

Bwa ha ha ha ha

a reply to: littlecorn

Antivaxxer hey I'm one of those, ain't scared of a little cold, it's not like I'm some germaphobe or something.

Was that really a vaccine? I thought vaccines contained the dormant virus it is meant to protect from.

Did they change that definition too...?

a reply to: Zenchuck

It'd be great if ATS could return to the level of info and dialogue you're presenting.

They're all very interesting papers worth reading and discussing. I've not seen any of the before you posted them.

I've not used HMD before but looks a very good database and can't see anything wrong in your method or interpretation of results.

A lot of excess deaths are due to the impact of the pandemic on healthcare. There's a good precis of the UK CAGE study into how lockdown caused at least 4,003 avoidable deaths per year as millions missed standard treatment or detection of chronic illness.

The delays in treatment/increased waiting times are still being felt today and it will likely be several years until the quality of healthcare returns to pre-pandemic levels.

CAGE

The full paper is at the bottom of the page but can't link directly to it.

Please see my recent thread on the ten stages of genocide. Referring to people as anti vaxer and vaxer plays in to an agenda. We should all consider not doing this.

originally posted by: bastion
a reply to: Zenchuck
The delays in treatment/increased waiting times are still being felt today and it will likely be several years until the quality of healthcare returns to pre-pandemic levels.

Yes. I agree with this. It would account for some of the excess deaths. It would not however account for the deaths of children and those who do not require medical care. Have a look at excess deaths from Europe for example. I have put this little slide together showing children ages 0-14 are dying at a rate of 800+ per week in excess of baseline.



www.euromomo.eu...-mortality

a reply to: iamthevirus

Yes, they did.

a reply to: littlecorn

Pfizer has admitted that our own immunity is superior to theirs in duration, strength, and dependability. Why are the ones pushing the vax so hard, not even considering natural immunity and offering advice to eat certain fruits and vegetables to strengthen natural immunity, as opposed to just jabbing the entire world and using the media to push that narrative? The fact is, that these Government figures and vax companies are steeped in corruption, cannot be held liable for injury or death (which is a red flag), and historically have proven well that they cannot be trusted.

originally posted by: Oldcarpy2
a reply to: iamthevirus

Yes, they did.

I got a pass from the cardiologist, said its swelling people's heart.

I have a trippy left ventricle right now they're going to have to ablate but not before my thyroid flatlines from having it ablated... complicated stuff but RAI takes awhile to kill off a hyperthyroid then they want me to equalize a while still after those t-levels plummet. It'll probably be a year before they set me up for the lv-ablation and until then it's management with meds, didn't even want to shock cardiovert me right now which they will attempt first so I may no have to go under the knife.

/odd though that he's valued but did not recommend it for me, I wouldn't have anyways... he just told me to take precaution like wash my hands and wear the mask during the height of the big scare.

Hell I can't even tell there's anything wrong but they say so and I seen it on the echo this little twitch my lv does every few cycles.

I had a thyroid storm 7 weeks after they put me on meds to slow that down, my first ever medical issue... which apparently after the storm which those meds invoked did that to my heart. Sustained 230bpm for hours, took 3 hospital transfers before they could get it under control, thyroid storm has like 85% mortality rate! Like I said which their meds caused in the first place... so I'm having a misfire from all that.