Missouri Allows Spanking in Classrooms

a reply to: Freeborn

I'd suggest that you don't know # about me and that at times you are full of it.

And you would be correct: I don't know you or anything about you. Thus I suggested instead of stated.

Smacking two year old kids?
That's just #ing wrong, end of story.

But that seems to suggest I was correct.

Again, no one is suggesting smacking a 2-year-old. You can that nonsense right now. I am talking about a spat across the diaper. The fact that you equate that to a smack across the face is verification of what I thought: you were allowed to run wild until it was too late to be able to correct you.

TheRedneck

a reply to: grey580

A grown adult that is not a parent paddling a kid is sexual assault plain and simple.

Only in your mind. I'm actually starting to worry about you.

While at school, the child is under the direct supervision of school authorities. While at home, the child is under the direct supervision of the parent. In that sense, and that sense only, the school is acting in lieu of a parent.

If one adult paddles another adult without consent it is sexual assault. But because it's a child the non parental adult gets a pass?

Whoa, what? Did you read what you just wrote before you pressed the "reply" button?

What world are you in where adults go paddling other adults without consent? What color is the sky there?

The paddling of the child is not consensual. It's assault.

Guess what? The shooter at Uvalde, TX did not give consent to be shot either. Was that assault? Did the BP guy assault the shooter when he took him down? Should we pass laws to prevent active shooters from being assaulted without consent?

"This is the police! We have you surrounded! Can we get your consent to shoot you down?"

If a kid does something to warrant punishment. There are other ways to handle it. The student wrote on the wall. Ok a month of cleaning walls and picking up garbage is a punishment. Let's not resort to barbarism.

So you think a month of hard labor is preferable to a spanking?

I wonder: would the child have to consent to cleaning the walls?

TheRedneck

a reply to: JAGStorm

There are DECADES of studies on this.
People that have been abused are MUCH more likely to commit crimes.

You are still conflating spanking to abuse.

Abuse is any physical or emotional action that damages. If someone slaps a child across the jaw, that is abuse. If someone is wielding a paddle on a two-year-old like they were an adult, that is abuse. If a parent treats their child with contempt or negligence, that is abuse. In every case I mentioned, the child suffers injury.

Discipline (spanking) does not involve injury. Xtrozero said it very well above: the amount of actual pain that one might need to inflict on a toddler is so minimal that it can actually be funny later on. If a child receives such discipline at that tender age, they will learn to abide within the boundaries set by the parents... most of the time. As the child grows, the amount of force needed to get that point across increases. The longer a child goes without understanding there are consequences to bad actions, the more that amount of required force increases as well, to the point that it may no longer even work and the child cannot be controlled at all. Freeborn gave us all an example of that.

What i see typically happening is that parents refuse to correct their children, because especially at a young age it is easier to just give in. The child thus has no set boundaries on their behavior. As they age, there finally comes a point where one of three things happen:

• The child now requires so much pain to set a disciplinary boundary that we are talking child abuse to do so. Parents typically justify this by saying there's some sort of mental or physical issue that they couldn't have helped.
  
  
• The child requires a large amount of pain to enforce their boundaries, much more than the parents are comfortable with, so the parents try to justify their earlier inaction on that basis: corporal punishment obviously doesn't work.
  
  
• The child gets so far out of control that legal authorities are called in. The parents are heartbroken because they did everything "right"... except, of course, discipline their child.

In each case, the result is the same: unruly children who are out of control, who bully other children and will eventually grow up to attack other adults. Some may manage to stay ahead of the law and actually live a decent life; others will have regular run-ins with the law and live at a lower class than their capability; some will wind up in prison. All because people were too lazy to spank their children when they were young.

That, IMO, is the real abuse. It leaves an emotional injury that will last the rest of the child's life.

TheRedneck

I'm sad to know that there are so many who are okay with state elected personnel touching on their kids regardless of the medium. Nothing like "Get in line!" "Respect the state!"

Make sure they back the blue while yall are at it even though the blue never rats out another blue.

Make sure they respect the crooked ass government while you're at it.

Make sure they know that if someone higher up in supposed authority treats them wrong that it's because they deserved it.

originally posted by: andy06shake
a reply to: tanstaafl

We could also argue that some sick twisted bastards might get off on such video or audio recordings of children's arse's being paddled.

Hence my 'tricky part' comment...

One way I can think of is that each and every 'view' would have to be associated with a username/password/ID factor, with some kind of monitoring to set off alarms for illegitimate views.

Again, that is just off the top of my head, but it could be done in such a way as to drastically minimize chances of abuse (of the video surveillance).

Hitting weans with bats is child abuse no two ways about it really tanstaafl.

No, spankings are NOT child abuse, but it is what I would call the last resort of disciplinary action.

Yes, it could be abused, but anything can be abused.

Like the power of the State to interfere with the rightful child-rearing decisions of parents.

Today, a parent that dares to whack their kid on the bottom in a public place when t heir kid is acting out *screaming for 'candy' or whatever) risks having CPS called on them and losing their parental Rights.

That, my friend, is tyranny of the highest order.

And encouraging corporal punishment aka child abuse in schools is apt to end badly no matter whither there is parental consent or otherwise.

Ridiculous. It existed in the public school system for many decades, with very little known abuse. I used to get the occasional paddling because I would forget to bring in my 'signed papers'.

a reply to: tanstaafl

Spanking weans with a bat is child abuse.

As to what's ridiculous, that would be attempting to reintroduce corporal punishment to your schools.

Tell me this what happens when one of the disgruntled students that have been molested by some old bastard with a wooden paddle turn up with an AR-15 to return the favor and seek retribution?

I think you may have enough problems with your schools and students without resorting to beating them up for teacher's kicks.

And off the top of my head, passwords or otherwise, those videos could constitute child porn.

a reply to: Xtrozero

I don't require your help people Xtrozero, a beast is a beast, anybody that wants to marry or tamper with underage kids is a pedophile.

And anybody that wants to see them married before the age of consent or helps to promote such a notion is a pedophile enabler which is just as bad.

You can still get married at 16 in the UK Xtrozero with both parent's permission(In Scotland which is part of the UK) but no younger, no way, no how(Not something i agree with i would make it 18).

To add to that you show me any 40-year-old that's married to a 16-year-old here in the UK and i will show you something that's skating on very thin ice.

Also, no sharia law holds sway over here Xtrozero, only the law of the land.

Theres a whole generations that got swatted on the ass as kids and qutie a few of those generations grew up to be some of the toughest and innovative generations at the time

Now we have the last 2 or 3 who were coddled beyond belief and never really held accountable for their actions, and they dont know what gender they are and think communism and facism are cool, and need EFFING CRY ROOMS just to handle day to day life

I say good for Missouri, we already have the results of the OTHER WAY of raising kids, and its literally tearing this world down with its crybaby hands

a reply to: Xtrozero

Brought it up for a good reason considering the state and subject matter aka hitting weans with bats.

You should not marry weans to pedophiles or allow any sorts of child marriage in what is supposed to be a first-world nation, quite simply.

You're the one that keeps harping on about it, plain to most people with half a brain that its wrong.

Aside of course from religious maniacs that marry their underage children to old men or other children.

a reply to: optimisticcontrarian

People on the thread telling you what corporal punishment breeds.

Hatred and contempt for the teachers who committed the sad acts of depravity and an aversion to authority being the main contenders there.

If you beat a kid and treat it like an animal, they will act like one.

a reply to: TheRedneck

Again, no one is suggesting smacking a 2-year-old.

But you said:

My daughter got her first spanking just after one year old.......

And followed it with this:

.....she cried like I had taken a blacksnake whip to her.

We call it "needing one's butt beat." No medication required; most recover fully within 10 minutes if addressed in a timely manner.

I am honestly shocked at what I am reading.

a reply to: Itisnowagain

Yes, i said all those things. And I don't remember why she got the swat; she was doing something dangerous to the best of my recollection. But you need to get your head on straight about a couple things.

Firstly, that swat was one lick, with less force than I would slap a friend lightly on the shoulder. She was just over a year old! There was no need for more. However, there was a need to get her attention and make sure she knew what she did was wrong and had consequences. You need to stop with the lies, trying to twist that into some monster with a baseball bat hammering on a baby.

Secondly, and this is intended to be taken as a warning, not as a threat... my children are grown so it cannot happen today. But, while they were small, I did swat my kids a time or two in a public place. I have had people try to get in my face about it, using a similar tactic that you just used. T?he result was not pleasant for them, although I think I got across the difference between "discipline" and "abuse." You are treading on very thin ice when you start throwing accusations around like the one you just did.

I am literally amazed at the number of people today who cannot make such a simple differentiation. It's literally mind-blowing. We have tried it your way... withholding discipline and allowing kids to act out as they choose, and we have the results in. The next thread about some horrendous school shooting (and there will be plenty more), I want you to remember: according to you, it is still better than spanking a kid when they need it.

In the meantime, I again strongly suggest you do not use that type of retort when in public. You can get by with it on the Internet; you're hiding safely behind that keyboard. In public, there are people who will hurt you for calling them a child abuser.

ETA: I see you decided to delete the accusation toward me about my daughter. That was wise.

TheRedneck

a reply to: andy06shake

People on the thread telling you what corporal punishment breeds.

People in this thread who do not know the difference between discipline and abuse.

If you beat a kid and treat it like an animal, they will act like one.

If you beat a kid and call it discipline, you are the animal.

If you discipline a kid and call it abuse, you are ignorant.

TheRedneck

Well look at that


Hmm in Vegas you have to pay extra for that 🤷‍♂️

a reply to: TheRedneck

You need to stop with the lies, trying to twist that into some monster with a baseball bat hammering on a baby.

Well that's a twisted lie in itself.....
Where did I try to twist anything?
Did I say anything about a monster with a baseball bat hammering on a baby?

Sounds like you are twisting my words.

I quoted what you wrote......maybe you could post what you are accusing me of and what lies I have told?

a reply to: TheRedneck

Secondly, and this is intended to be taken as a warning, not as a threat... my children are grown so it cannot happen today. But, while they were small, I did swat my kids a time or two in a public place. I have had people try to get in my face about it, using a similar tactic that you just used. T?he result was not pleasant for them, although I think I got across the difference between "discipline" and "abuse." You are treading on very thin ice when you start throwing accusations around like the one you just did.

You were not cured of violence in your childhood I see.

Again:
What have I accused you of?

a reply to: TheRedneck

People on this thread that seem to think its appropriate to hit one-year-olds as well by the looks of it.

If you beat a kid at all you are an animal, unless he/she is trying to attack you, or someone else.

Discipline is one thing TheRedneck hitting children with bats whole different kettle of fish, and especially so in this day of age.

You seem to want it to be the 1950s again TheRedneck, well its not, nor will it ever be so.

Supposed to learn from past historical transgressions like child abuse in schools, not repeat the performance and hope for a different outcome, which could be considered rather ignorant in spades.

Violence begets violence and monkey see monkey do.

a reply to: Itisnowagain

Where did I try to twist anything?

In the parts you deleted.

Sounds about right, the one time I don't quote a post...

TheRedneck

a reply to: Itisnowagain

You were not cured of violence in your childhood I see.

Oh, I'm very peaceful... unless attacked. No, I was not "cured" of the ability to defend myself and mine.

TheRedneck