Missouri Allows Spanking in Classrooms

a reply to: Xtrozero

Well glad your kid grew up to be a productive member of society.

After all the world needs more doctors.

I would not let her hear you calling her dumb all the same, she might be the one that decides when it's old folks home time after all.

originally posted by: JAGStorm
a reply to: network dude

The parents have a choice to allow their children to be swatted, or not. So that one metric negates all the "that's abuse" claims full stop.

That's not enough.
You know what I say. We have cameras in every single aspect of our lives, why not live streams of classrooms?
It's not that they don't want you seeing your kid act like a jack>>> it's that they don't want you to see the teachers!

if your kids are such assholes you fear for them getting beat every day, you likely should opt out of this, and when they get home, smoke a j with them and tell them how cool you are. I'm sure that will continue to work wonders.

a reply to: JAGStorm

Plus what happens when two children become involved in say a fight or other incident, where the so called teacher deems punishment by bat molestation a desirable resolution to the problem?

What if one's kids parents have sanctioned punishment by paddle and the other kids said no or never?

Does one kid get paddled and the other some other form of punishment that does not involve assault with a wooden implement?

That would seem rather unfair.

Is it done in private which makes it creepy as feck?

Or on public display so as to humiliate the recipient even further?

Teachers hitting kids with bats as punishment in 2022???!!!

What's next ffs, spring-cosh to the back of the knees if they don't move fast enough in the lunch line???

This sort of idea regarding spanking weans with bats in Missouri is laced with so many problems people don't even know where to being, it is draconian beyond belief and reminiscent of Victorian times if they are honest.

This is just nuts.

a reply to: JAGStorm

Schools =

Don't wear short skirts or tops unless we tell you to (cheer & track)
Don't hit other people, unless it's the teacher hitting you
Everyone should follow studies on health except when it has to do with things like early school days for teens, or sitting for long periods of time.
Everyone should eat healthy, except when it comes to cafeteria food

a reply to: JAGStorm

There are all kinds of abuses going on that are basically a teacher power trip.

Grade school a friend needed to go to the bathroom. The teacher wouldn't let him, he begged and begged.
Nope. He stood there and pissed his pants right in front of the whole class.

My parents told me if I had to go never let another person stop me. I've done the same for my kids.
My one daughter had a small bladder. I got a Dr's note to say she is not to be stopped at any point no matter how frequent.
I made sure every teacher knew. Some tried to say it was ok as long as she wasn't messing around. She was a straight A student that never had an ounce of trouble and yet they were giving me lip over it.

a reply to: network dude

if your kids are such assholes you fear for them getting beat every day, you likely should opt out of this, and when they get home, smoke a j with them and tell them how cool you are. I'm sure that will continue to work wonders.

Funny you assume that because it's quite the opposite. My kids were often the teachers favorite, great grades.
Two are of age to drink/smoke whatever but they actually don't.
They are outstanding adults that can think for themselves and know how not to be taken advantage of by others.
It's no wonder we have such a society that most can't think for themselves and have to be told what to do.

a reply to: Xtrozero

I really think that people here are comparing two totally different situations. None of my kids remember anything about getting a spanking,

Did your kids get spanked by a teacher? If not they probably don't remember anything.
We aren't talking about parents spanking, that is another discussion.

a reply to: JAGStorm
This is a great article:
theconversation.com...

Four reasons why physically punishing school children doesn’t work

And if the goal of punishment is to regulate behaviour, violent punishments are simply not necessary since many other, more humane deterrents, are sufficiently effective.

When the punishment is physical, however, the only recourse is for the physical punishments to become more and more severe. This can become extremely dangerous as beatings become stronger and stronger, causing more and more physical and mental damage. This is the nightmarish scenario of the stubborn student who will not change and, as a result, is beaten more and more brutally.

Students look to adults as role models, teachers in particular. The values, language and behaviour of the teacher or the head of school send out a message about what is normal and valued in society.

There are long term psychological effects of corporal punishment, leading to psychological maladjustment.

a reply to: JAGStorm

I doubt if this classroom spanking ruling will last very long. With the open carry laws in Missouri, it will be just a matter of time until a teacher or administrator gets shot by some parent that thought the punishment was unwarranted and abusive.
The school board meetings will be very interesting, especially in some of those rural Ozark communities.

a reply to: TheRedneck

Its an emotive subject.

I know you aren't advocating beating two year kids and I should have made that clear.
Of course young children sometimes need a corrective little tap to remind or warn them, but that's as far as it should go.

'Paddling' children is excessive, and wrong.

I would never deny that children need to be taught the difference between right and wrong, and sometimes quite firmly.
They need to be taught that there is a price to pay for breaking rules and laws etc and sometimes that means severe punishment - I'll always be amongst the first to say that.

But I've said it before and I passionately believe it that violence just breeds violence.

And its hypocritical to say that violence is wrong, that what 'you' have done is wrong so I'm going to commit an act of violence against you.

I am lucky that my father was a good father and is to this day a good man and someone who I have enormous respect for.
He led by example.
His parenting countered my naturally rebellious streak and the violence I suffered at school - the most extreme of which he was unaware of till years later.
If it wasn't for him I suspect I would disappeared into a sickening cycle of violence and counter-violence.

I'll never win Father of the Year Awards.....but I never did too badly and I never once raised my hands to my daughter or my Grandson who lives with me.
But they know the difference between right and wrong and the consequences of erring on the side of wrong.

I agree that teachers no longer have the ability to discipline children.
That is yet another manifestation of the much deeper malaise that is eating away at our society.
But going back to beating children is most definitely NOT the answer.

originally posted by: JAGStorm
a reply to: JAGStorm
This is a great article:
theconversation.com...

Four reasons why physically punishing school children doesn’t work

And if the goal of punishment is to regulate behaviour, violent punishments are simply not necessary since many other, more humane deterrents, are sufficiently effective.

When the punishment is physical, however, the only recourse is for the physical punishments to become more and more severe. This can become extremely dangerous as beatings become stronger and stronger, causing more and more physical and mental damage. This is the nightmarish scenario of the stubborn student who will not change and, as a result, is beaten more and more brutally.

Students look to adults as role models, teachers in particular. The values, language and behaviour of the teacher or the head of school send out a message about what is normal and valued in society.

There are long term psychological effects of corporal punishment, leading to psychological maladjustment.

I still remember the day I got punished in second grade for getting out of my seat to help another student whose colored pencils and such spilled out of her pencil box.

Little seven-ish year old me knew right then and there that teachers weren't the noble figures they're made out to be. Imagine getting punished for simply helping a classmate out.

originally posted by: andy06shake

Well glad your kid grew up to be a productive member of society.

After all the world needs more doctors.

I would not let her hear you calling her dumb all the same, she might be the one that decides when it's old folks home time after all.

I'm a boomer having kids later in my life. When they sucked I never had a problem telling them so. Seems to work well as the other one is an electrical engineer and they both love their daddy very much.

a reply to: Xtrozero

I would hope so and good for you.

I just lost my dad Friday last week(69), had lung cancer a few years back, and beat that with chemo and radiotherapy.

Unfortunately, it turned into brain cancer with a tumor 5cm x 3cm, which they were rather ambivalent to operate on given the state of his lungs.

They did however choose to operate and apparently got all the growth......came through the operation and they let him out of the hospital less than 72 hours later!!!

Guy could not walk and ended up having to phone an ambulance readmitted to hospital where they said he had pneumonia, he died of heart failure a few hours later.

The moral of that story, love your parent's people, as they are not here forever.

Spanking is one thing, but still violence aimed at a child even if for disciplinary reasons.

But slapping a kid in the face in the heat of anger is another matter entirely. How many of you disciplinarians have done that? Or had it done to you and how did it make you feel.

My dad backhanded me and knocked me out of my chair when I was 5. My offense...spilling my milk accidentally. Of course he tried to apologize.
I'm a senior citizen and that is still the most powerful memory I have of my father.
All you disciplinarians; I see my father in you! I don't trust you or anything you say.

originally posted by: olaru12
Spanking is one thing, but still violence aimed at a child even if for disciplinary reasons.

But slapping a kid in the face in the heat of anger is another matter entirely. How many of you disciplinarians have done that? Or had it done to you and how did it make you feel.

My dad backhanded me and knocked me out of my chair when I was 5. My offense...spilling my milk accidentally.
I'm a senior citizen and that is still the most powerful memory I have of my father.

That teacher spanking me was very traumatic. Part of the problem is that I didn’t do anything to justify it. Seriously if I could go back I would have slapped her right across the face.

Speaking of fathers…

My father early in his military career was a drill sergeant, and you know how many times he spanked me? Think of a drill sergeant like Full Metal Jacket but worse… He never did, not once, not one single time. I actually only remember him yelling at me one time and I totally deserved it for playing with fire. He was small in stature but most people were scared of him, he did not need to resort to violence. I adored him and think he was the best dad a child could have. He gave me so much love I didn’t want to disappoint him, for that would be the biggest punishment.

originally posted by: andy06shake
a reply to: Xtrozero

I would hope so and good for you.

I just lost my dad Friday last week(69), had lung cancer a few years back, and beat that with chemo and radiotherapy.

Unfortunately, it turned into brain cancer with a tumor 5cm x 3cm, which they were rather ambivalent to operate on given the state of his lungs.

:

So sorry for your loss. Unfortunately I went through something strikingly similar with my mom, lung cancer that spread to the brain, then body. It’s a brutal disease. It’s been a little over a year since both my parents passed. Some days I feel nothing, some days the sadness comes back. I am glad they are no longer suffering. You take care of yourself.

originally posted by: olaru12
Spanking is one thing, but still violence aimed at a child even if for disciplinary reasons.

But slapping a kid in the face in the heat of anger is another matter entirely. How many of you disciplinarians have done that? Or had it done to you and how did it make you feel.

My dad backhanded me and knocked me out of my chair when I was 5. My offense...spilling my milk accidentally. Of course he tried to apologize.
I'm a senior citizen and that is still the most powerful memory I have of my father.
All you disciplinarians; I see my father in you! I don't trust you or anything you say.

Really, any normal parent would just wipe up the spill. Since you seem to have been at the dinner table, it should not have been a huge ordeal to clean it up. It is the realm of the parent to lovingly help the child. I think it would be great if the Montessori method was taught at least in part to everyone.
Dr Maria Montessori wrote a book called “The Absorbent Mind”, in which she explains the nature of the child mind up to age 7, where they absorb everything in their environment. After 7, the absorption process changes. What is a child mind at 5 going to absorb from the environment you just described? Punishment for accidents instead of teaching the child mastery of the physical body. In the Montessori classroom, they have what are called the “Practical Life Lessons.” Examples are the “water pouring lesson”, in which the child will our water from one a small pitcher to a cup without spilling a drop, and another is spooning beans from one container to another without spilling the beans. They can do these lessons over and over as much as they like, and they develop mastery in a safe and loving environment.

The point is, if the kid is immature and messed up,
they will also lack the maturity to know why
they are being physically assaulted, leading to
more problems later in life.
Two wrongs will not make a right, and could
make things worse by braking down verbal
communication, trust and creating safety issues.
Plus, by law, premeditated physical assault is just that.
I'm sure the kid could sue both
the parents and the school board if warranted.
The only physical punishment that does sometimes
work and is warranted is when the kid continuesb] to
bite, hit others.

I am 52 now but in junior high we had a teacher who paddled 4 or 5 every class.She didn't ever hurt anyone but maybe she thought she did.Had another who paddled the whole class at the end of class time but had to carry over to the next day and by then he just gave up.His board was the barracuda lol.Others had holes drilled in their paddles,I had one principal who used a leather strap.The ones who rarely paddled were the ones to not make mad or you would pay.

Most of us turned out ok with paddling or no paddling but the worst I witnessed was when a parent was called in and he did the paddling himself.I felt sorry for that kid,it was extremely hard.Too hard to be hit with a board.If his dad did that there where others could see then there was no telling what he may have endured at home.

originally posted by: JAGStorm

Did your kids get spanked by a teacher? If not they probably don't remember anything.
We aren't talking about parents spanking, that is another discussion.

I personally find it all a little strange outside of what TheRedNeck has suggested in we let things go way to far. Kids are not fragile, they are anti-fragile... We have created a a couple of generation where if your feelings are hurt its like full on abuse and attack. Why are so many kids on prescription drugs today? If you think this doctor is incorrect then you are part of the problem.

Here is a bigger picture.