Missouri Allows Spanking in Classrooms

a reply to: Xtrozero

As I said before, paddling in school is really 99% threat than action. Principal has this huge paddle on the wall with a name on it. The stories fly that it actually has hooks in it to ripe your flesh...lol These few stories of people here telling how they saw paddling used often or even daily is extremely weird and I agree pushes over into some level of abuse, and is 100% counter productive. Same thing if someone beat their kids everyday it no longer becomes a fear or threat, just a norm.

That's the thing people are not getting. Spanking one's child is not something that you do every so often like watering a plant. It's all about establishing a consequence for an action to prevent the child form taking that action. Overuse the consequence and it becomes just another day... no biggie.

I've said it before; let me say it again: the threat of violence is more of a deterrent than actual violence. The threat simply has to be believable.

One incident that I still remember: I always told my son the same thing my Daddy told me: if you get a spanking in school, you'll get a worse one when you get home. Well, that worked fine for a few years, until one day he was in the bathroom and a bunch of bullies decided to put his head in the toilet. Well, my son fought back; in the scuffle, he elbowed one of the bullies so hard he was found crying on the floor. My son got a spanking, but the kid who started it did not.

He came home and was obviously scared. Finally he admitted to me that he had gotten a spanking in school. I told him he knew what that meant and he started crying and blurted out, "But you told me it was OK to defend myself!"

I stopped short and asked him to explain that. He did.

The next day I went to the school and spoke to the principal. She told me what had happened, essentially the same story my son told. I asked about the other kid who started it. "Well, we didn't see any evidence." I asked if the kid was a known bully. Yes, she admitted he was. I asked if there was any reason to not believe my son's account. She said no, it probably went down like he said. My next question was pointed: if you know the other kid was a known bully and you believe he started the fight and that my son was defending himself, why did you only spank my son for defending himself?

"Because we have a policy against fighting."

I went off. I didn't touch her that day, but I did explain to her, quite clearly, that she was going to apologize to my son before I left, and that if she ever again abused the right to spank him that I had agreed to give her, I was going to come back and beat her senseless in the middle of the main hall during class intermission where everyone could see it, and that she would not be standing when I was done.

She called my son to the office and apologized to him right there. He had this shocked look on his face. Then I told him that if he ever started a fight, he would be standing up in class for two days, but that he was allowed to defend himself. The principal nodded agreement.

When he left, I explained to her that I was doing what I could to raise my son to know right from wrong and that her "policy" was undermining my ability as a parent to set boundaries for my child. I was not going to allow that to continue.

My son never got that home spanking that time... I couldn't punish him for doing exactly what i had told him to do! I worried that he would take that as a sign he could get away with fighting in school, but he never did. With that one exception of the TV show, he never had any other problems in school.

That just goes to show how upside down this whole debate has become. Corporal punishment is a necessary component in school discipline, but it can also be abused. Unfortunately, many good teachers and principals have gone to other occupations because the lack of discipline was making it impossible to teach. As a result, we have the problems that are being mentioned and more. All because some people cannot get the difference between a spanking as discipline and child abuse.

I'm not sure if it is still allowed, but the old scared straight program where they use real harden criminals to talk to "tough" kids well on their way to going to jail and these people would tell them exactly what is going to happen to them when they get in jail in a very not so nice way.

I know there is a location near me for out-of-control children that is tun like a boot camp. It claims to have good results, and does a pretty good amount of business. I haven't heard about "scared straight" in a long while... I supported it.

Today we can't do any of that and kids just rot away as there is nothing they really care about, have no self-control, do not have higher levels of emotional responses like delayed gratification. They are also like little fragile flowers where even if someone hurts their feelings or disagrees with them they act like it is abuse/maltreatment and a physical attack, and they are evolving society in that direction as we speak on this. Heaven help you if you get one's pronouns wrong...lol I think it was in Australia recently that has basically said long staring is a form of sexual attack now. You need to ask for permission first... Jesus.

And still people want more... we are so screwed...

TheRedneck

a reply to: TheRedneck

All you are doing is proving what a complete and utter knobhead you are.

You wouldn't last five minutes in my world.

I have no desire to get banned from ATS so for the first time that I can recall I am going to retire from a thread before I say some things that contravene T&C's.

I know you will see that as some sort of victory and as me somehow giving in - it isn't and I aren't I assure you.

The fact that you seem to think that the ban on corporal punishment has led to all that is evil and wrong in our society clearly indicates that no rational discussion is possible.

That you resort to deliberate provocation and seem to think its fine to pry into people's personal and private lives despite being told it has nothing to do with the subject under discussion just shows exactly what sort of person you are.

As I say, I'm taking my leave of this discussion.....its up to others to make of that what they will.

a reply to: andy06shake

Thinks its ok to hit one year old kids, check

Discipline.

Wants to put homeless people in tent cities on the outskirts of town, check.

Nope. That's just something you made up.

Believes in wide-scale election fraud without any tangible evidence to support such, check.

Nope, seen the evidence.

Three strikes.....and you are out.

Only in your dreams. I ain't going nowhere, haus. Live with it.

TheRedneck

a reply to: Freeborn

The only victory I am interested in is the one that just occurred in Missouri. It's obvious that you cannot debate this issue without making false accusations, and when your own words are treated the same way, you run for the hills.

Usually I enjoy a debate with you... but not this time. You are at least as emotionally vested in this subject as I am. So go on, run away... but while you're licking your wounds try to comprehend that when you throw a punch, someone is likely to throw one right back.

TheRedneck

a reply to: TheRedneck

I suppose i should not really feed the trolls nether.............even if you are a mod.

I think i will take a leaf out of Freeborn's book.

You are simply not worth warnings/post-ban.

So on that note.

Ta'ta

originally posted by: andy06shake
a reply to: Xtrozero

So you can't tell us where these Sharia law-enforced no-go areas are?

Imagine that. LoL

Do you understand how the burden of proof works around these here parts?

I think you may find when you make a claim you are expected to provide proof and evidence to back it up.

Where is that again?

Wee hint, kind of hard to find something that only exists in the minds of Gammon.

Did you even read my post...lol geez. I'm not here to prove anything to you, don't really care. You are the one with the stick up your butt over marring ages in the US while your own country is the same. As I said it is your country, believe what you will, but don't throw some 40 year-olds marry 16 year-olds on me in some religious backward event in the US when your country is exactly the same while you feverously defend it over there.

So I post a map of no go zones in London and you just say something like "stop watching FOX news" or some other stupid comment and we are back at square one. If you were curious you would just spend 5 mins and do it yourself. Too many people here view ATS as some form of a debate club to win or lose the debate as the goal. In doing so they post stuff all day and say THAT IS MY PROOF!" I win! When we both know we each could post 1000s of things on either side of the argument, so in the end there is no "win", just some endless and boring tit for tat event.

I think that is where we are in this side discussion. Go to Google, type in no go zones in London, hit enter, then click images and we can dispense with the back and forth.

a reply to: Freeborn
The star count says it all.
It's good to see that Rednecks perspective is not popular.

a reply to: andy06shake

Ta'ta

See ya.

originally posted by: andy06shake
a reply to: TheRedneck

Dont let the door hit you on the arse.

TheRedneck

a reply to: Xtrozero

Again the burden of proof is yours to provide Xtrozero and you still are not doing that.

London is not a sharia law no-go zone that's a fact.

Whereabouts in London are you claiming is a sharia law no go zone?

Some places are hell of a dangerous in London, but not because of sharia law or Muslim's.

More like because of county lines drug gangs and daft teenagers with blades fighting and robbing, which is somewhat off the beaten sharia law track that's for sure.

a reply to: Itisnowagain

Your previous question skipped my mind.

My daughter is 31. She recently acquired a position at a start-up consulting firm where she is poised to head the HR department, making pretty good coin in the process. Looks like a marriage is coming up for her, and her fiance is making very good coin in the same company, with plenty of room for promotion. She got her first degree, an AAS in psychology, at age 19. She is now working on a business Masters in preparation for that HR department to be fleshed out.

My son is 28. He works in cybersecurity approaching 6 digits for a DoD contractor; he can't even tell me about most of his work because it is too classified. This is his second career; he topped out as a lead CNC machinist before getting his Masters degree and moving to this more lucrative career. He also owns a large home (his second; he took advantage of a recent housing bubble to make some quick cash and move to the better area) in an exclusive neighborhood and runs his own thriving side business from there.

He also just gave me my first grandchild... who he is raising without help.

Yep... lousy parent. How are your kids doing?

TheRedneck

a reply to: TheRedneck

I'm not running away, never ran from anything or anyone in my life.....quite the opposite!

Punch back?
Don't make me laugh.

You just don't seem to get it, provoking someone about something that is private and personal and has nothing whatsoever to do with the thread topic is bang out of order....especially after being told to back off.
I absolutely wouldn't put up with it in 'real' life and I don't think I should have to here.
Yet in your arrogance you think you are above such things.

Yes, we've had some good debates in the past....but stray into my personal life and I take exception.
That's the thing that is making me walk away, nothing else.

I would have continued debating as long as you wished despite disagreeing with most of what you have had to say so far....but you've crossed the line.

In the 'real' world there would have been 'real' consequences.
And as I say, I value my membership and time here at ATS and have no desire to get banned so I'm out of here.

Do not mistake that as backing down or anything remotely like that....but I somehow suspect you'll convince yourself that it is.

a reply to: Freeborn

provoking someone about something that is private and personal and has nothing whatsoever to do with the thread topic is bang out of order....especially after being told to back off.

...unless one uses the name "Freeborn" apparently.

TheRedneck

originally posted by: Itisnowagain

The star count says it all.
It's good to see that Rednecks perspective is not popular.

So why are kids so messed up today with massive physiological issues of anxiety, depression and stress? With the only answer of using heavy meds and treatment to see them come to a bad ending no matter what?

All of this is a much bigger issue than paddling, and it has to do most with the old participation trophy, everyone is a winner, whatever you do is perfect etc. in some bubble boy style of existence that society today puts our kids in to protect our fragile little flowers from EVERYTHING. It is also because parents and teachers want to be more friends with their kids and not authoritarian figures, and that never goes well in the end.

I'm a boomer having kids late in my life so they are 19 and 22 with both in college. Their whole lives I was never easy on them and when they sucked to told them they sucked. If they started something like sports they will finish it for at least that year and move on to something else if they want, but there is no quitting because they feel it is hard. I would tell them that the real world didn't care about their feelings and would eat them up and spit them out in a second. This actually added value to my praises and not just another participation trophy event. Both were all-star athletes in high school with no prodding from dad, all on their own with my support when needed. One is finishing up electrical engineering, done with a math minor and will finishing up an MBA next year at the age of 23 then. The other will be one of those stupid doctors...

Neither have ever needed meds for anything, and nether smoke, but do drink some in college. The difference is things that drive other kids that grew up in a bubble boy scenario to need meds and still curl up in the fetal position at the slightest hint of stress my kids just laugh at it all and say that is nothing. My kids are supper happy and carefree. They take stress on as a challenge to overcome and win as it has been their whole lives. Because of all this I do want to thank each and everyone of you that stars yours and Freeborn's posts as you all are making my kids have a much easier time in the mean old world as their competition is more worried about pronouns than advanced calculus and will keep close to mommy and daddy to protect them instead of grabbing the bull by the horns and making their own successful lives.

I'll repost this again as it seems no one has 18 mins to spare to see what are some issues with kids today.

originally posted by: andy06shake
a reply to: Xtrozero

Again the burden of proof is yours to provide Xtrozero and you still are not doing that.

London is not a sharia law no-go zone that's a fact.

Whereabouts in London are you claiming is a sharia law no go zone?

Some places are hell of a dangerous in London, but not because of sharia law or Muslim's.

More like because of county lines drug gangs and daft teenagers with blades fighting and robbing, which is somewhat off the beaten sharia law track that's for sure.

lol come on... 30 second search...

A 2012 study from the University of Reading estimated that there are around 30 established Sharia councils in the UK. Most councils operate from mosques. The first in the UK was established in Leyton, east London, in 1982.

Human rights

a reply to: JAGStorm

All I can say is that today's class rooms are ENTIRELY different than that of the 70's & 80"s when I was in school. Classrooms today, in many cases are total chaos and teachers have absolutely no power to control the class room.

And regarding your statement you didn't deserve the spanking you received.. Are you claiming she randomly grabbed you out of a crowd and just start whooping you? If that were the case, I could agree. However, if you were in the mix of other hooligans, it could mean you might not have deserved the action, but were part of the crowd that might had.

a reply to: Bearack

And regarding your statement you didn't deserve the spanking you received.. Are you claiming she randomly grabbed you out of a crowd and just start whooping you? If that were the case, I could agree.

Here is the story and everyone can decide.

It happened in Europe, but we were Americans at an international school.
I was 6 or 7.
We were on a field trip. We were going to a bakery but were told not to buy a “Baked Good”. On the other side of the bakery was packaged products, candies, drinks, chips, etc. I purchased snack pretzels. My 6 year old self did not realize that was considered a “baked good”. When we all got outside and she saw what I purchased she smacked my butt over and over in front of the whole class outside on the street.

To this day I’m still not sure why baked goods weren’t allowed, we could buy candy, chocolate, chips, but not a “baked good” which I guess includes small hard pretzels. Like I said if I could go back I would have popped her one! Or if this was my child there would be severe consequences for that.

So you tell me was that justified?

a reply to: Xtrozero

Smashing now you have established that there are "Sharia councils" in the UK that amount to religious law courts that hold no sway or carry any legal power in any of our courts of law in the land.

Where are these Sharia law no go areas in the UK again?

Still waiting for those, good luck. LoL

Edit: Link working with my VPN set to USA.

as Sharia councils cannot override family law in the UK. A UK court must sign off on any agreement made after divorce for it to be legally binding, and won't do so if it does not comply with British law.

From your own article, and that's just at a glance. LoL

I mean if you are a Muslim looking to divorce or for family counseling, that follows Sharia law, well they are your man.

But they are not going to mug you in the street or tell people where they can or cannot go that's for sure.

Again Sharia councils hold no sway and are simply religious courts.

a reply to: Itisnowagain

That's Punishment Enough......*)




This Will go Down in the Annals of ATS History.........

a reply to: Xtrozero

Neither have ever needed meds for anything, and nether smoke, but do drink some in college. The difference is things that drive other kids that grew up in a bubble boy scenario to need meds and still curl up in the fetal position at the slightest hint of stress my kids just laugh at it all and say that is nothing.

Don’t jump to the conclusion that kids shouldn’t be punished, that’s not what any of us are saying. Of course there should be consequences for actions. Should those consequences be spankings? NO.
Study after study has proven this is not only NOT effective, it has long term negative consequences.

Yes yes, Jim Bob Billy Jethro did just fine in your family with a good spanking or two. We aren’t talking about that. We aren’t even talking about parents spanking their kids, we are talking about adults, mainly teachers doing so.

So, if a teacher makes a mistake, and crosses the line should a principal spank them? If no why not?