Putin is about to win a shocking victory

a reply to: M5xaz

You need to educate yourself. The Budapest memo was a Diplomatic Accord reached in 1994.

The Budapest Memorandum on Security Assurances comprises three identical political agreements signed at the OSCE conference in Budapest, Hungary, on 5 December 1994, to provide security assurances by its signatories relating to the accession of Belarus, Kazakhstan and Ukraine to the Treaty on the Non-Proliferation of Nuclear Weapons (NPT). The memorandum was originally signed by three nuclear powers: the Russian Federation, the United Kingdom and the United States. China and France gave somewhat weaker individual assurances in separate documents.

The memorandum prohibited the Russian Federation, the United Kingdom and the United States from threatening or using military force or economic coercion against Ukraine, Belarus, and Kazakhstan, "except in self-defence or otherwise in accordance with the Charter of the United Nations." As a result of other agreements and the memorandum, between 1993 and 1996, Belarus, Kazakhstan and Ukraine gave up their nuclear weapons.

What did it require -

According to the memorandum, Russia, the US and the UK confirmed their recognition of Belarus, Kazakhstan and Ukraine becoming parties to the Treaty on the Non-Proliferation of Nuclear Weapons and effectively abandoning their nuclear arsenal to Russia and that they agreed to the following:

* - Respect Belarusian, Kazakh and Ukrainian independence and sovereignty in the existing borders.
* - Refrain from the threat or the use of force against Belarus, Kazakhstan or Ukraine.
* - Refrain from using economic pressure on Belarus, Kazakhstan or Ukraine to influence their politics.
* - Seek immediate Security Council action to provide assistance to Belarus, Kazakhstan or Ukraine if they "should become a victim of an act of aggression or an object of a threat of aggression in which nuclear weapons are used".
* - Refrain from the use of nuclear arms against Belarus, Kazakhstan or Ukraine.
* - Consult with one another if questions arise regarding those commitments.

Let's see... Your bs dates back 8 years where as my facts date back 28 years. As you can see, but are ignoring, is the fact Russia was required to respect Ukraine's territorial as defined in 1994. When Russia invaded Ukraine in 2014 and illegally occupied parts of E. Ukraine and Crimea, Russia violated the accord.

Had Russia complied with the accord they signed in 1994 none of this bull# would be going on.

Since Russia is using the revolution bs regarding the Budapest memo then I maintain that Russia is illegally sitting on the U.N. Security Council since it was assigned to the USSR and NOT Russia, which came about when the USSR collapsed from a "revolution".

Anything else I can school you on?

originally posted by: Grimpachi

originally posted by: PatriotGames4u

originally posted by: Grimpachi

originally posted by: PatriotGames4u

originally posted by: Grimpachi
a reply to: Xtrozero

Do you also believe that BS about them shipping out T62s to Ukraine?

Yes.

Because it has been confirmed by multiple 3rd party observers.

That is hilarious.

Who were the third party observers?

Charlie and Lucy.

You want their address, or would GPS coordinates be easier for your launchers?

Ah, so it is your normal amount of evidence.

You saw it on Twitter and someone else on Twitter said they saw it. That was your multiple confirmations.

Maybe not exactly how it happened but I bet that is close to how it went down. lol

I'm just keeping you busy and having a little grim fun, the russian propaganda machine has already been defeated in spectacular fashion and no longer poses any real threat to Ukraine or the planet.

You can only hurt russia now.

Entirely your choice.

originally posted by: Grimpachi

originally posted by: PatriotGames4u

originally posted by: Grimpachi

originally posted by: PatriotGames4u

originally posted by: Grimpachi
a reply to: Xtrozero

Do you also believe that BS about them shipping out T62s to Ukraine?

Yes.

Because it has been confirmed by multiple 3rd party observers.

That is hilarious.

Who were the third party observers?

Charlie and Lucy.

You want their address, or would GPS coordinates be easier for your launchers?

Ah, so it is your normal amount of evidence.

You saw it on Twitter and someone else on Twitter said they saw it. That was your multiple confirmations.

Maybe not exactly how it happened but I bet that is close to how it went down. lol

What is 'twitter'?

a reply to: PatriotGames4u

So about this russian propaganda.....

Its the same russian propaganda that a certain laptop was belonging to a Hunter Biden?

The same russian propaganda as claimed by 50+ US intel officials.

The same russian propaganda that was reaponsible for doubting trump and russia gate?

The same propaganda responsible for HRC losing in 2016?

That russian propaganda?

a reply to: JinMI

Yup... it was pushed by US citizens trying to drag Russia into our election. Just like Russia claims western countries are interfering in Russian internal matters.

a reply to: JinMI

Only the MSM ministry of truth approved propaganda for that one.

Ghost of Keive, T62s, Snake Island x2, Mas grave in Mariupol,

Well, actually mass graves have been found that were filled before Ru moved into the area. Lots of civilians and captured Ru soldiers in it. MSM won't touch that one though.

a reply to: Xcathdra

And we've been saying a number of years and that we will get back at them, do you think we meant just sanctions that we have levied and backed off of numerous times?

If their election is rigged and we don't have a way to overcome that where would be the most logical/logistical location to install a puppet regime?

a reply to: PatriotGames4u

originally posted by: PatriotGames4u
POST REMOVED BY STAFF

Yes, so as I said, you believe its (D)ifferent.

I dont. Its all filtered and concentrated lies.

Good grief

originally posted by: Xcathdra
a reply to: JinMI

Yup... it was pushed by US citizens trying to drag Russia into our election. Just like Russia claims western countries are interfering in Russian internal matters.

So neither is true.....but now we should trust the MSM sources parrotting the rhetoric?

Hard no from me on all of it.

This picking and choosing of sourcing based on emotions is laughable.

After spending many a night disecting info on past US events with you and some others here, its very surprising the level of information being passed along as factual.

a reply to: Grimpachi

I fully expect russias propaganda arm to rival our own MSM long before Feb 24.

What I personally never expected was a part and parcel acceptance of one over another.

a reply to: Xcathdra

For schooling, your drivel shows abject ignorance of history.
What are you, 9th grade dropout ?

The Budapest accords have nothing to do with the present conflict. Those protections were exchanges of security guarantees for nukes.
The present conflict in Ukraine DID NOT start with any invasion

Had you bothered to READ the reference I gave you, you would know that the origin of the Dombass conflict is the "revolution" formented by the Obama regime in 2014 where Yanukovitch was forced from office, and official language status was removed for Russian in Ukraine, where 30% of the Ukraine population speaks Russian.

That in turn led to anti-government protests and Russian-majority portions of the Ukraine voting to separate from Ukraine, with militias being formed in Russian-majority parts of the country.

Ukraine responded militarily to votes for seccession leading to armed conflict.

To stop the bloodshed, a cease-fire, the 2014 Minsk accords were signed by all parties INCLUDING UKRAINE.

Except Ukraine never respected their signature and kept shelling Russian-majority areas.


Conversely, when Czechoslovakia broke up after separation votes, the dissolution of the country was done without violence, in a civil manner. Ukraine should have followed that example.


Too many lives have already being lost.
Again, pushing for WW3 with Russia will lead to nuclear confrontation, with potentially hundreds of millions of DEAD.


But, like I said, you go ahead, push for nuclear genocide.
Ignorance
Brutality
Sociopath...

You have the trifecta- congrats...

originally posted by: PatriotGames4u
a reply to: M5xaz


A 'diplomatic accord' was reached long before that, and it included the U.S. giving it's word to protect Ukraine from russian invasions if they gave up all those russian nuke and bio weapons.

You were saying?

The Budapest accord was a guarantee against invasion in exchange for Ukraine nukes.

The origin of the present conflict has ZERO to do with the Budapest accord - It started as an internal conflict in Ukraine after Obama's fake Maidan "revolution" caused Russians in Ukraine, 30% of Ukraine's population, to lose their language rights in the country. As a blowback to that new Ukraine government policy, Russian-speaking Ukrainians unsurprisingly VOTED to separate from Ukraine.

Russian support for separatists came afterwards.


Keep right on showing your ignorance of history

originally posted by: JinMI
a reply to: PatriotGames4u

So about this russian propaganda.....

Its the same russian propaganda that a certain laptop was belonging to a Hunter Biden?

The same russian propaganda as claimed by 50+ US intel officials.

The same russian propaganda that was reaponsible for doubting trump and russia gate?

The same propaganda responsible for HRC losing in 2016?

That russian propaganda?

No....see THAT Russian propaganda was thoroughly validated as true by the US MSM.
So we can now totally trust anything they say about Russian propaganda...as they're experts.

a reply to: M5xaz
Maybe you should find someone who can read to read it and explain it to you.

* - Respect Belarusian, Kazakh and Ukrainian independence and sovereignty in the existing borders.
* - Refrain from the threat or the use of force against Belarus, Kazakhstan or Ukraine.
* - Refrain from using economic pressure on Belarus, Kazakhstan or Ukraine to influence their politics.
* - Seek immediate Security Council action to provide assistance to Belarus, Kazakhstan or Ukraine if they "should become a victim of an act of aggression or an object of a threat of aggression in which nuclear weapons are used".
* - Refrain from the use of nuclear arms against Belarus, Kazakhstan or Ukraine.
* - Consult with one another if questions arise regarding those commitments.

Russia did not respect Ukraine's independence and sovereignty of the existing borders.
Russia threatened the use of force against Ukraine, and then invaded starting in 2014.
Russia use economic pressure in an attempt to keep Ukraine under their control.
Russia invaded Ukraine when they held the UN Presidency starting the month they invaded.
Russia used its veto to prevent any action by the UNSC against Russian action.
Russia has threatened to use nukes.
Russia did not consult anyone if they had issue with Ukraine.

In addition Russia violated the UN Charter, specifically Chapter VII, article 51.

Do I need to find someone who can read and explain it to you or are you sticking with your failed argument that it doesn't apply (which is typical of people such as yourself to ignore facts that undermine your bull# argument).

a reply to: IAMTAT

It's almost like you can't trust either sides information of the conflict.

Crazy thought, I know!

originally posted by: JinMI
a reply to: IAMTAT

It's almost like you can't trust either sides information of the conflict.

Crazy thought, I know!

Damned frustrating, that.