Russia Ukraine Update Thread - part 2

a reply to: Grimpachi

and it looks like Russia doesn't understand how wars work. If you attack your neighbor unprovoked, like Putin did, then Russia is a valid target. The reason Putin is pissy about this is the fact it doesn't comport with his lies about the Ukraine war. Once again Putin's stupidity bites him in the ass.

a reply to: Xcathdra

Sure, he doesn't understand how war works.

Xcathdra has spoken and so it is.

originally posted by: Grimpachi
a reply to: Xcathdra

Sure, he doesn't understand how war works.

Xcathdra has spoken and so it is.

I guess its as much bs as it is for Putin to demand Russia not be attacked. Confirming Putin doesn't understand how wars work.

a reply to: Xcathdra

My question re: Putin is what caused him to kick into high gear.

Ukraine has been independent from Russia for what, 30 years ? But NOW Ukraine's independence is some kind of existential issue for Russia ?

Nonsense. This disaster is entirely about Putin.

He suddenly believed, for whatever reason, that he was running out of time to make his mark in history. And so, he got hasty. As we all know, haste makes waste.

Heckuva job, Vladimir.

Cheers

a reply to: Xcathdra

There are certain avenues/actions and declarations that can be made and justified to the UN if Russia is continually attacked.

Of course, I don't need to explain any of that to the great Xcathdra that knows more about war than Putin.

a reply to: F2d5thCavv2

He is a victim of believing his own propaganda. Also Putins approval ratings were in the high 60's before Ukraine. Now that he has given the Russian people a distraction, his popularity has jumped to the mid 80's. Contrary to Putins claims, he wants to resurrect the Soviet Union / Russian Empire.

a reply to: Grimpachi

Not really. Ukraine is well within theirs rights to defend themselves during a war from their attacker. Russia does not have a leg to stand on in the UN.

Also your personal attacks doesnt change the facts so maybe you should try to deal with those instead of deflection.

a reply to: Xcathdra

OK, sure.

I bow to your vast knowledge of international law and war.

a reply to: Xcathdra

it looks like Russia doesn't understand how wars work.

Post Cold War, the Russian state became accustomed to military actions that didn't have high costs and which did not directly impact Russia itself. Now, with Ukraine, they've got a war on their hands, and it is clearly an unpleasant fact for Moscow to wake up to.

Cheers

originally posted by: andy06shake
a reply to: firerescue

By the looks of things Moskva is the first Cruiser sunk in anger since the Argentine General Belgrano back in 82.

Apparently the largest (tonnage) warship sunk since the Second World War.

Cheers

Pentagon spokesman John Kirby released a list of the items in the latest $800 million security assistance package for Ukraine.

It includes 18 155mm howitzers and 40,000 artillery rounds, 200 M113 armored personnel carriers, 11 Mi-17 helicopters and 100 armored multi-purpose vehicles.

The package also includes 10 AN/TPQ-3G counter-artillery radars, two AN/MPQ-64 Sentinel air surveillance radars, 300 Switchblade drones and 500 Javelin anti-armor missiles.

story


The addition of M113 Armored Personnel Carriers is the US taking a baby step forward towards addressing the Ukrainian Army's equipment requirements. Seen alongside the UK and Australia dispatching their troop carriers to Ukraine, one of that country's most pressing military needs is getting a trickle of supplies. But, of course, different models or variants of troops carriers fill different roles.

Logistical/transport issues aside, the Biden Admin's ad hoc lottery approach towards military aid to Ukraine probably prevented the handover of Armored Personnel Carriers to Ukraine earlier.

a reply to: Grimpachi

* - UN Chater - Article 51

“Nothing in the present Charter shall impair the inherent right of individual or collective self-defence if an armed attack occurs against a Member of the United Nations, until the Security Council has taken measures necessary to maintain international peace and security. Measures taken by Members in the exercise of this right of self-defence shall be immediately reported to the Security Council and shall not in any way affect the authority and responsibility of the Security Council under the present Charter to take at any time such action as it deems necessary in order to maintain or restore international peace and security.”

* - 2019 - Russia's Putin revokes Geneva convention protocol on war crimes victims

* - OSCE reports Russia violated international humanitarian law in Ukraine

* - DOCUMENT OF THE MOSCOW MEETING OF THE CONFERENCE ON THE HUMAN DIMENSION OF THE CSCE

* - Budapest Memo -

The United States of America, the Russian Federation, and the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland,Welcoming the accession of Ukraine to the Treaty on the Non-Proliferation of Nuclear Weapons as a nonnuclear-weapon State,Taking into account the commitment of Ukraine to eliminate all nuclear weapons from its territory within a
specified period of time,Noting the changes in the world-wide security situation, including the end of the Cold War, which have brought about conditions for deep reductions in nuclear forces.

Confirm the following:
1. The United States of America, the Russian Federation, and the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland, reaffirm their commitment to Ukraine, in accordance with the principles of the CSCE [Commission on Security and Cooperation in Europe] Final Act, to respect the Independence and Sovereignty and the existing borders of Ukraine.

2. The United States of America, the Russian Federation, and the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland, reaffirm their obligation to refrain from the threat or use of force against the territorial integrity or political independence of Ukraine, and that none of their weapons will ever be used against Ukraine except in self-defense or otherwise in accordance with the Charter of the United Nations.

3. The United States of America, the Russian Federation, and the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland, reaffirm their commitment to Ukraine, in accordance with the principles of the CSCE February 21, 2014 EIR International 35 Final Act, to refrain from economic coercion designed to subordinate to their own interest the exercise by Ukraine of the rights inherent in its sovereignty and thus to secure advantages of any kind.

4. The United States of America, the Russian Federation, and the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland, reaffirm their commitment to seek immediate United Nations Security Council action to provide assistance to Ukraine, as a non-nuclear-weapon State Party to the Treaty on the Non-Proliferation of Nuclear Weapons, if Ukraine should become a victim of an act of aggression or an object of a threat of aggression in which nuclear weapons are used.

5. The United States of America, the Russian Federation, and the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland, reaffirm, in the case of the Ukraine, their commitment not to use nuclear weapons against any non-nuclear-weapon State Party to the Treaty on the Non-Proliferation of Nuclear Weapons, except in the case of an attack on themselves, their territories or dependent territories, their armed forces, or their allies, by such a state in association or alliance with a nuclear weapon state.

6.The United States of America, the Russian Federation, and the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland will consult in the event a situation arises which raises a question concerning these commitments.

This Memorandum will become applicable upon signature. Signed in four copies having equal validity in the
English, Russian and Ukrainian languages

I can keep going.. Do you want me to explain it to you or do you have someone to help you?

originally posted by: F2d5thCavv2
a reply to: Xcathdra

it looks like Russia doesn't understand how wars work.

Post Cold War, the Russian state became accustomed to military actions that didn't have high costs and which did not directly impact Russia itself. Now, with Ukraine, they've got a war on their hands, and it is clearly an unpleasant fact for Moscow to wake up to.

Cheers

and apparently even harder for pro russian individuals to accept.

a reply to: xpert11

Well during the beginning of WW2, when the US was still not involved, we built runways at make shift airbases along the US-Canadian border. The runways and how they were set up actually crossed the border. The US would land fighters etc on the US side and Canadian / British would "sneak" across the border and taxi the planes into Canadian territory, and then off to the UK.

We should do something similar for Ukraine.

a reply to: Xcathdra

They should do that even if they don't intend to use them and let the Russians waste missile strikes on them.

Cheers

a reply to: Xcathdra

My goodness. It seems I really ruffled some feathers.

Seems to always happen in this thread when info that isn't positive about Ukraine is posted. Just my imagination I am sure.

Just wondering, Russia hasn't declared war has it? It is still a special operation I believe much like what we have been doing for over 30 years. I wonder what would change if an actual war was declared by Russia.

Nah, couldn't happen right. I mean, what would it take to justify something like that. lol

a reply to: Grimpachi

Nah. The ruffled feathers are all on the other side of the bench. Seems having the Moskva go "blub blub" hurt some feelz. The angry vibe that ensued in this thread was very apparent.

Cheers

* - The shelling of Kreminna ongoing since night - a civilian was killed and there are several wounded

* - Mykolaiv, Mykolayivska Oblast(10:32). Red Alert: aerial threat. Sirens sounding. Take cover now!

* - Chernihivska Oblast(10:31). Red Alert: aerial threat. Sirens sounding. Take cover now!

* - Kherson region: This morning Russian troops removed Ukrainian flags at town hall in Skadovsk and raised Russian flags, the same in Oleshky yesterday

* - In the morning briefing Russian Ministry of Defense threatens to escalate attacks against Kyiv city in case of attacks in Russia

* - Russian ministry of defence claimed attack with Kalibr missiles at plant in Zhulyani near Kyiv that repaired air defense and anti-ship missiles

* - Russian Ministry of Defense claimed control over Ilyicha metallurgical plant in Mariupol

* - UN UNOSAT analysis showing destruction in some Ukrainian cities

* - Zaporizka Oblast(09:54). Red Alert: aerial threat. Sirens sounding. Take cover now!

* - 2 missile launches over Belgorod, possible interceptions

* - Kharkiv, Kharkivska Oblast(09:53). Red Alert: aerial threat. Sirens sounding. Take cover now!

* - Poltavska Oblast(09:53). Red Alert: aerial threat. Sirens sounding. Take cover now!

* - Security Service of Ukraine intercepted call with discussion that Klimovo in Bryansk region was attacked by Russian troops in false-flag operation to blame Ukraine

* - Orlan-10 drone was shot down in Odesa region overnight

* - Kryvyi Rih(09:23). Red Alert: aerial threat. Sirens sounding. Take cover now!

* - Dnipro, Dnipropetrovska Oblast(09:17). Red Alert: aerial threat. Sirens sounding. Take cover now!

* - Pokrovsk, Bakhmut(09:16). Red Alert: aerial threat. Sirens sounding. Take cover now!

* - Kramatorsk(09:13). Red Alert: aerial threat. Sirens sounding. Take cover now!

* - Kharkiv, Kharkivska Oblast(09:00). Red Alert: aerial threat. Sirens sounding. Take cover now!

* - USAF B52´s tracking over Romania

As a reminder

Just so people know and understand. Information from war zones can become confusing as there will no doubt be info released from the players (on both sides) involved that might not necessarily be true.

As such take everything as a possibility and NOT as absolute truth.

The very first casualty in a war is the truth and all warfare is based on deception

Resources - Where most of the updates come from.
* - Flightradar24 - tracks flights worldwide
* - Live Ukraine control map 1 - updates on the ground
* - Ukraine Control Map 2
* - Ship radar
* - Military vessel tracker
* - Institute for the Study of War (ISW)

Youtube resources -
* - Speak the Truth
* - War in Ukraine
* - Artur Rehi - Estonain soldier
* - Daily Report

Social media resources -
* - Twitter - Jomini of the West - Battlefield Maps

a reply to: F2d5thCavv2



That ship that went down was called Moskva. I didn't know that.

Yeah, heard about that a day or so ago. Probably pissed them off good.
Well, that is job security for the Mariupol ship builders once they route the rest of the naz... nationalists out of there.

Klimovo is close enough to the border to be plausible in terms of what Ukraine is capable of striking.

But the Russian claims make zero sense in terms of a target. Klimovo's population is some 13,000 and is not a site of military interest. Given Ukraine's logistical challenges, I'm sure they've got better targets for their munitions.

Russia would do better to help Klimovo clean up the radiological contamination dating from the Chernobyl accident instead of attacking one of their own towns for propaganda purposes.

Cheers