Russia Ukraine Update Thread - part 2

originally posted by: xpert11
Historically, time favours the Russians in their struggles against Napoleon and Hitler's Nazi Germany. In the face of operational and tactical defeats, the Russians fall back on Moscow, await their legendary winters, and tap into their advantages in population/military personnel numbers. Concerning the destruction of the German war machine, the Soviets mastered combined arms and the implementation of consecutive operations [offensives].

The United States was also feeding the Soviets and tremendous amount of material.

Even before the United States entered World War II in December 1941, America sent arms and equipment to the Soviet Union to help it defeat the Nazi invasion. Totaling $11.3 billion, or $180 billion in today’s currency, the Lend-Lease Act of the United States supplied needed goods to the Soviet Union from 1941 to 1945 in support of what Stalin described to Roosevelt as the “enormous and difficult fight against the common enemy — bloodthirsty Hitlerism.” Source

The worms didn't pay this back completely for over half a century.

a reply to: AugustusMasonicus

That is an excellent point that highlights how Russia doesn't enjoy equivalent support from China for their war in Ukraine. Also, the importance of Land Lease to the Soviets is an ongoing historical debate. But canned Spam fed Soviet troops, and Studebaker trucks provided the Soviet Armies with mobility.

After the war, the Soviets downplayed or ignored the contributions of American industry, the efforts of the Royal Navy, merchant crews, and the difficulties involved with the Arctic Convoys.

originally posted by: xpert11
That is an excellent point that highlights how Russia doesn't enjoy equivalent support from China for their war in Ukraine.

No, and as a matter of fact the shoe is on the other foot, Ukraine is the beneficiary of Western power and resource. The parallels have the potential to be striking, initial gains will likely be made only to get rolled back as more and more equipment arrives.

a reply to: AugustusMasonicus

The potential exists for the U.S. and Western Countries to mobilise industry and provide Ukraine with the levels of support akin to Lend Lease (1941-41) provided to the Soviet Union and the British Empire. I argue that the Ukrainians can't evict Russian forces from their country until that level of support occurs.

Ample economic opportunities exist from Lend Lease 2.0, including renewed focuses on domestic manufacturing and regional supply chains. Also, if Ukraine persuades Japan to fund that program partially, the issue of how Australia and New Zealand financially support their contributions is partially solved.

a reply to: Grimpachi

The winning side usually has a better idea of how many their enemy is losing because they are left standing to count the dead after the enemy retreats.

The side that isn't doing well would never announce official data or numbers..
It might create issues for them.

a reply to: Oldcarpy2

The same BBC that faked the Syrian chemical attack in Syria?

6 July update

Key Takeaways

* The Russian Ministry of Defense has not claimed any territorial gains since July 3, supporting the assessment that Russian forces are conducting an operational pause while still engaging in limited ground attacks to set conditions for more significant offensive operations.

* The Kremlin continues to prepare for a protracted war by setting conditions for crypto-mobilization of the economy and largely initiating an operational pause in Ukraine.

* Russian forces conducted offensive operations northwest and east of Slovyansk.

* Russian forces continued efforts to push westward toward Siversk from the Luhansk-Donetsk oblast border.

* Russian forces continued attempts to advance toward Bakhmut from the south.

* Russian forces conducted limited ground attacks north of Kharkiv City.

* Russian forces conducted unsuccessful ground assaults in northwestern Kherson Oblast.

* Ukrainian forces may be setting conditions for a counteroffensive toward Kherson City.

* Russian forces may be forming a new military unit in Mulino, Nizhny Novgorod Oblast.

More at URL above.

Cheers

Looks like the eastern European energy war is opening a new front in the ME. Every chance Putin through his Iranian partners was behind the Hezbollah drones that were shot down before they reached the Israeli rigs. As Europe looks farther afield for its gas supplies expect more of this down the line...................."Hizballah drones were the opening shot of a maritime energy war vs Israel" www.debka.com...

originally posted by: ufoorbhunter
Looks like the eastern European energy war is opening a new front in the ME. Every chance Putin through his Iranian partners was behind the Hezbollah drones that were shot down before they reached the Israeli rigs. As Europe looks farther afield for its gas supplies expect more of this down the line...................."Hizballah drones were the opening shot of a maritime energy war vs Israel" www.debka.com...

welcome to Fallouts energy wars.

a reply to: Xcathdra

PM for you, Xcathdra.

Cheers

a reply to: vNex92

Are you suggesting the CCTV footage was faked by the BBC?

Putin at a meeting with his parliment today-

Speaking on July 7 at a meeting with leaders of the parliament, Putin accused Western allies of fueling the hostilities, charging that "the West wants to fight us until the last Ukrainian.”
He called it a tragedy for the Ukrainian people, but added,
“It looks like it's heading in that direction,” and warned that everyone should understand that Russia "by and large hasn't started anything seriously yet."

www.rferl.org...

That sounds unnerving at best.

a reply to: F2d5thCavv2

responded.

a reply to: F2d5thCavv2

Aside from logistical resupply, I suspect both sides are reconstituting front-line ground units destroyed or rendered combat ineffective with replacement personnel and equipment. But, issues arise with soldiers serving with strangers, compared to having learned each other's strengths and weaknesses in training, and the U.S. Army suffered horribly from related topics in Vietnam. Yet how the German Army avoided those matters in WW2 remains a point of historical discussion.

The other possibility is the Ukrainians are rotating units to "quiet" areas for periods of rest. But, the Battle of the Bulge displayed the risks of placing inexperienced or ill-prepared units in those regions.

7 July update

Key Takeaways

* The Russian Ministry of Defense announced that Russian forces are conducting an operational pause to rest and reconstitute.

* Russian forces continued efforts to advance toward Slovyansk from the southeast of Izyum and may be setting conditions to advance from the southeast of Barvinkove—either toward Slovyansk or toward Kramatorsk.

* Russian forces made marginal gains to the southeast of Siversk and continued offensive operations west of the Lysychansk area.

* Russian forces continued offensive operations to the south and east of Bakhmut.

* Russian forces conducted a limited and unsuccessful attack north of Kharkiv City.

* Ukrainian partisans are likely continuing to target Russian-controlled railways around Melitopol.

* Russian oblasts are continuing to create their own ad hoc volunteer units to compensate for personnel losses in Ukraine.

More at URL above.

Cheers

a reply to: Silcone Synapse

What's 'worrying' is that he is beginning to echo verbatim the #e that his apologists, acolytes and propagandaists spout here in 'The West'.
Fight to the last Ukrainian?
He's the one who ordered the invasion and he is the one who is showing no signs of relenting on his programme of death and destruction yet it seems his attempts to attribute all the blame on the big, bad 'West' is being at least partially successful.

a reply to: xpert11

The US Army has had a long romance with the "systems" approach, including personnel assignments. It is efficient in some respects and causes serious problems at the same time.

The Germans started the SWW with a region-based personnel replacement system, but it deteriorated in the wake of the Stalingrad catastrophe. Didn't help that they ran several land armies at the same time to placate the ambitions of Nazi high rankers. One doubts we'll ever see "parachute panzer divisions" again

Russia seemingly still adheres to the "burn through the men until the objective is achieved" approach. Which I find strange as they had become more intelligent in the use of fire support by the end of the SWW. I've no idea of the Ukrainian doctrine, but I expect as desperate as their situation is, their personnel get little rotation off the front line.

With the Russians pausing their offensive, this would be a great time for a dramatic Ukrainian counter-offensive, but I doubt the Ukrainians have the personnel and materiel to do such at this time.

Cheers

a reply to: Freeborn

Putin knows he has no choice. He has to bring home a scalp called Ukraine or his own system will turn on him.

Cheers