Russia Ukraine Update Thread - part 2

originally posted by: F2d5thCavv2
a reply to: alldaylong

Lithuania would be my guess.

Cheers

A step to far for Putin if..............

Political instability in Bulgaria

SOFIA, June 22 (Reuters) - A no-confidence vote on Wednesday toppled Bulgaria's government and Prime Minister Kiril Petkov, who had pledged to tackle corruption and took an unusually strong stance against Russia.

Cheers

originally posted by: alldaylong

originally posted by: ufoorbhunter
Lukashenko in Russia for extensive talks with Putin eng.belta.by...

What are they talking about ?

Complete bollocks as usual i would guess.

Ha that's actually quite funny and reading Belta every now and then you are probably correct. Harvesting grain targets or something similar. The only real concern is Lavrov landing in Iran at the same time. Yet probably again "Complete bollocks as usual"

originally posted by: Grimpachi
That is not at all influenced by the US. Right? Did they ever bring charges against Bush or anyone responsible for the millions killed by our invasions?

Who cares.

What we should care about at this minute is that if Russia has evidence that Ukraine are committing war crimes, then they need to lodge this with an international body capable of action. Could it be that Russian evidence is contrived for the Russian media and a captive populace, where the threshold of proof is low, but the inclination to believe is high?

a reply to: paraphi


You act like Russia presenting evidence of war crimes would change something.

We already know Ukraine is committing war crimes by using the populace as human shields.

We know that because there's lots of video of it.

It hasn't changed anything.

As for an international body capable of acting on that information. Name it.

The OSCE was supposed to monitor, record. and submit such claims. Yet after Russia invaded and took some of the OSCE observation points they found video evidence that they still had stored of them helping Ukraine target and adjust fire to destroy DPR forces.

originally posted by: Grimpachi
a reply to: paraphi


You act like Russia presenting evidence of war crimes would change something.

We already know Ukraine is committing war crimes by using the populace as human shields.

We know that because there's lots of video of it.

It hasn't changed anything.

As for an international body capable of acting on that information. Name it.

The OSCE was supposed to monitor, record. and submit such claims. Yet after Russia invaded and took some of the OSCE observation points they found video evidence that they still had stored of them helping Ukraine target and adjust fire to destroy DPR forces.

manufactured evidence of course.

a reply to: Grimpachi

Russia invaded

At last, you have admitted it was an invasion.

This is an independent report on alleged abuses of Human Rights prior to Putin's invasion of Ukraine in 2022.
It goes into great depth and gives details of Moscow backed Russian Militia's operating in Luhansk and Donetsk giving names, locations and other specifics.
The report acknowledges that some abuses of human rights were also committed by Ukrainian forces.

www.osce.org...

As has been repeatedly pointed out it was the actions of these Militia's and their acts of terrorism and aggression towards Non-Russian Ukrainians throughout the Donbas region that brought AFU forces into the area.

As for the so-called referendum held in Donetsk; not even Putin wanted the vote to go ahead as it was so disorganised, undemocratic and lacking in credibility.
Once the 'result' was given Putin gave what can best be described as lukewarm recognition of the vote.
No other country recognised or acknowledged the 'result', none of Russia's 'allies' or friends, not China or North Korea or Iran who one would assume would jump at the chance to do so if it caused the USA any embarrassment or difficulty etc.
The referendum lacks any legitimacy whatsoever and there isn't an international expert on such matters outside of Russia who give it any validity at all.

I suspect the usual suspects will just pore scorn on all of that....I've come to expect nothing else.

originally posted by: alldaylong
a reply to: Grimpachi

Russia invaded

At last, you have admitted it was an invasion.

I have never said it wasn't. I have probably made that statement 50 times on here. It is just that when someone is being an arse telling me to say something I take pleasure in showing them that they can't always get what they want.

Too many people say Russia was the invader as if that factoid determines good or evil right or wrong. Those same people more times than not when confronted with the fact that NATO nations have been the invader in every war barring a few since WW2 do a bunch of mental gymnastics or just say something like "why are you bringing up that" which is basically saying that is different.

Being the invader doesn't determine right or wrong. It can attribute to that determination but it is not the deciding factor.

a reply to: Xcathdra

look at the shadows they dont even match the photo with the rifles being held up not horizontal like the shadows show that photo reeks of a bad photoshop

originally posted by: Grimpachi

originally posted by: Cutepants
a reply to: Grimpachi

Just referring to your avatar, that version of pepe is called help helper

I won't even ask why you know who it is.

Nazis from 4chan taught me all about him. As an antifa internet warrior, I'm sure know that Pepe is a Nazi symbol.

originally posted by: Grimpachi
You act like Russia presenting evidence of war crimes would change something.

If Russia presented real evidence of war crimes, it may change things. Until they do, the war crimes they are committing will continue to pile up.

Nothing can hide Russian behaviour, even their attempts to distract and build a false narrative. Too many graves.

originally posted by: Cutepants

originally posted by: Grimpachi

originally posted by: Cutepants
a reply to: Grimpachi

Just referring to your avatar, that version of pepe is called help helper

I won't even ask why you know who it is.

Nazis from 4chan taught me all about him. As an antifa internet warrior, I'm sure know that Pepe is a Nazi symbol.

Ah, so you are a 4chan type of person. That sure explains a lot.

Instead of cluttering the thread with useless banter like this PM me with it.

a reply to: Grimpachi

Why do you keep trying to PM, are you trying to groom me?

a reply to: paraphi

If Russia presented real evidence of war crimes, it may change things. Until they do, the war crimes they are committing will continue to pile up.

How do you know they haven't already been presented the evidence? Have you been listening to what they have presented to the UN? That is probably they only way you would know.
Not that I can find it anymore, but I have seen the video posted on telegram.
Doing an internet search only returns results where Russia is accused of war crimes.
That is some serious social engineering, IMO.
I couldn't find even a single mention of Ukraine shooting Russian POWs in the legs which they recorded and posted.

Assuming that you mean to present the evidence to the UN.
I did ask you. Unless you know of some other international organization capable of acting on that info. Willing to act is an entirely different thing.

We all know the UN could act but the ones who enforce those actions are the very nations supporting Ukraine.

Acknowledging that until I find an actual video clip or article where evidence of Ukraine committing war crimes was presented I propose just for argument's sake we presume it happened.

Answer me these three questions.

What in your opinion would it change?
What actions do you think the UN could take?
Assuming they decided to take action who would be responsible for carrying out those actions?

originally posted by: Cutepants
a reply to: Grimpachi

Why do you keep trying to PM, are you trying to groom me?

Don't worry, I am not into grooming and I absolutely detest Nazi apologists so you are completely safe.

Honestly, I would prefer and even appreciate it if you and I never interacted on these boards or anywhere else for the rest of eternity but since there is no block or ignore feature on ATS I am fairly certain that I will not get my wish.

However, if that sounds good to you I will do my best to never direct a comment to you either directly or indirectly if you do the same.

If you had taken this to PMs I would have said as much.

a reply to: Grimpachi

Well I hate fascists and yet I'm fine talking to you - a devoted fascist. Just doing a public service I guess. But sure, you're free to stop replying to me and pming me. It would save both of us time, not having to engage in drawn out arguments.

I'm getting so off topic though, I'll just put this here as a fig leaf: www.bbc.com...

Ukraine and Moldova have both been granted EU candidate status, President of the European Council Charles Michel has announced.

"Today marks a crucial step on your path towards the EU," Mr Michel said, describing the European Council's decision as a "historic moment".

Ukraine applied days after the Russian invasion in February, and the process moved at a record speed.

a reply to: Grimpachi

...which is...not a war crime?