Russia Ukraine Update Thread - part 2

originally posted by: paraphi
lesser reported efforts by Germany and France to persuade Ukraine to cede territory to Russia.

Zelenskyy already stated that's not an option. Granted it's a war, no matter what Russia calls, and military plans never go according to plan.

a reply to: paraphi

Try as you may justify the murder of civilians in Donetsk as you like.

The city center of Donetsk is not a military target. There are no military facilities or equipment stationed within the city center. The civilian victims are not collateral damage. They are the target.

The attacks are acts of terrorists. Nothing more, and they are carrying out those attacks with Western-supplied weapons.

I think the use of massed artillery, cluster munitions and dumb bombs by Russia have been on a different scale of destruction and civilian casualties.

Thanks for your opinion. I disagree with it based on the evidence. Just like in Bucha where they found that the majority of dead had died from flechettes that came from mortars fired on the territory that Russia had already held. As well as video footage of Ukraine firing artillery on Villages that Russia had already left.

a reply to: paraphi

Putin has already made his position on killing civilians clear, starting back in 2019.

Russia's Putin revokes Geneva convention protocol on war crimes victims

a reply to: paraphi

There is a final showdown its been a long time coming, coming. and Ukraine is a prelude to the main event. The Japanese didn't just up and decide to bomb Pearl Harbour, they took a bit of provoking as well. The second world war was just a carry-on from the first, where the Treaty of Versailles virtually guaranteed it. America's foreign policy has been an expensive mistake for the taxpayer but a bonanza for the military-industrial complex and the club. But if you think about it, America might be getting set up for the final showdown. I do mean set up and they are falling for it all. All on Russia's old home turf, which is heading for a winter war, would Russia even engage if it was not confident? with their enemy having a long supply chain. It would have been considered that the Biden family along with the rest of the administration will be suffering some sort of financial contraction which they would, of course, would tend to respond to.
How much ordinance did America leave behind in Afghanistan " that graveyard of Empires?" is still doing its thing. No doubt we will find out.

From the morning till evening artillery of the Armed Forces of Ukraine systematically destroys the center of Donetsk.

While repairing the communication network, two employees of the Donelektroavtotrans enterprise were injured

Sources
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Ukraine June 22, 2022 Operation footage



Anything gruesome is blurred. Youtube is run by pansies.

a reply to: Grimpachi

Ukrainian forces have been on the outskirts of Donetsk since the Russian invasion back in 2014. There are Russian / fake Republic military units in Donetsk so you can stop with the Propaganda. If there were no military units in Donetsk Ukrainian forces would have occupied it by now.

Secondly you seem to ignore Russia's intentional targeting of civilians / civilian areas. If you and Russia dont care about killing civilians, why should we call Ukraine out?

Or is this another Russian bass ackwards mindset where its ok for Russia to invade a sovereign country and level cities but Ukraine can't attack military targets inside Russia?

a reply to: anonentity

Japan invaded China. The US opted not to help Japan's war goals / killing of civilians so we stopped shipping oil and other items Japan needed to continue the war.

That is NOT provocation.

Trying to justify Russia's invasion of Ukraine by attempting to rewrite history by claiming Japan was provoked is not going to work. Russia, like Japan, invaded its neighbors without any provocation.

originally posted by: Grimpachi
Try as you may justify the murder of civilians in Donetsk as you like.

You have made a giant leap of misrepresentation.

Nothing justifies the death of civilians. Even when conducted by Russia, something which you seem incapable of acknowledging. Russia crying about war crimes is like a serial killer crying that someone shouted at him, or was rude. Russia is just playing to the gallery, and for every accusation against them, they throw one back. The politics of the guilty.

The fact remains that Russia is an invader, and in their wake they are leaving orphans, corpses, misery and destruction.

a reply to: Xcathdra

Ukrainian forces have been on the outskirts of Donetsk since the Russian invasion back in 2014. There are Russian / fake Republic military units in Donetsk so you can stop with the Propaganda. If there were no military units in Donetsk Ukrainian forces would have occupied by now.

That is one of the most obtuse things I have seen written in a long time.

According to you since there are military targets on the outskirts (if you look at google maps it is really on the outskirts) it is perfectly fine to shell civilian centers. Schools which they don't use as military headquarters like Ukraine, universities which they don't use as military headquarters like Ukraine, apartment buildings which they don't use as military headquarters like Ukraine, Fire rescue stations which they don't use as military headquarters like Ukraine. And those were targeted in just the last few days.

Secondly you seem to ignore Russia's intentional targeting of civilians / civilian areas. If you and Russia dont care about killing civilians, why should we call Ukraine out?

You only think that because you are an MSM junkie. The same MSM that sold us WMDs, Covid, Ghost of Kyiv, Snake Island, and child rape which I will remind you that the person in charge of putting out the claims was fired and later confessed to making it up. They repeat what Ukraine says without any critical thought.

Or is this another Russian bass ackwards mindset where it's okay for Russia to invade a sovereign country and level cities but Ukraine can't attack military targets inside Russia?

The DPR is its own country. You fail on several levels.

If Russia wanted to purposely target civilians and civilian infrastructure it would be flattened and there would be mass civilian casualties everywhere. It would look like Lybia and Iraq after our shock and awe campaigns. There wouldn't be videos of Russian soldiers dying while trying to evacuate civilians. Civilians that Ukraine uses as human shields. That isn't even debatable as Ukraine admits to it in their total defense campaign.

So spare me your one-sided mess of lies. I watch our propaganda and theirs then use my brain to decide what is what. You only care what MSM your speak the lies channel has to say without using an ounce of critical thought about what they are claiming.

So post your things and I will post mine. Just like the video you just posted talking about how they may close the cauldron. It was a good prediction especially since it was closed already.

HIMARS have arrived to Ukraine. Thank you to my  colleague and friend

@SecDef

Lloyd J. Austin III for these powerful tools! Summer will be hot for russian occupiers. And the last one for some of them.

twitter.com...

originally posted by: paraphi

originally posted by: Grimpachi
Try as you may justify the murder of civilians in Donetsk as you like.

You have made a giant leap of misrepresentation.

Nothing justifies the death of civilians. Even when conducted by Russia, something which you seem incapable of acknowledging. Russia crying about war crimes is like a serial killer crying that someone shouted at him, or was rude. Russia is just playing to the gallery, and for every accusation against them, they throw one back. The politics of the guilty.

The fact remains that Russia is an invader, and in their wake they are leaving orphans, corpses, misery and destruction.

I will remind you as I have done before on here,

Ukraine has been targeting civilians in Donetsk for 8 years.

They were not going to stop. In fact, the 2 months leading up to the invasion they had intensified their attacks. All that is documented but never talked about by MSM or the Western world. Ukraine is not a victim. Ukraine prosecuted a genocidal war and it is Russia putting an end to it when it should have been the UN but that organization is an utter failure.

a reply to: Grimpachi

You can repeat your lies as many times as you want, but honestly what's the point? This documentation is just like when Russia claimed they found bio weapons but also destroyed all of it for some reason, lol. Or the NATO generals captured in Mariupol. Still haven't heard anything about them.

If Putin wanted Donetsk civilians to stop dying he could just stop giving them weapons and forcing them to fight with those weapons. But he doesn't. Because he want's them to die instead of his own citizen, because he's afraid they'll hang him from a lamp post if he arms them and allows them to organize as military units.

a reply to: Cutepants

This "documentation" is video footage. Deny it as lies if you want.

You really made me laugh with your call for disarming them. I guess you really are rooting for moderate Nazis to go in and give them brotherly hugs.

Because he want's them to die instead of his own citizen, because he's afraid they'll hang him from a lamp post if he arms them and allows them to organize as military units.
Text

I saw that MSM claim. Along with the claim that they were poorly armed with bolt-action rifles.

As I have been following this from both sides that made me laugh as well.

Believe what you want.

a reply to: Grimpachi

Disarming? I just said stop arming them. It's funny that the violence only started after Putin sent in his unmarked operatives. Funny that, huh?

What MSM claim did you see?

originally posted by: Cutepants
a reply to: Grimpachi

Disarming? I just said stop arming them. It's funny that the violence only started after Putin sent in his unmarked operatives. Funny that, huh?

What MSM claim did you see?

Is that another western story? I guess all those videos of Ukrainians fighting for themselves stating that they don't want to be part of a government-run by Nazi nationalists is all CGI.

Current day Ukraine

German journalist Paul Ronzheimer reported that Lysychansk is almost surrounded.

twitter.com...

But don't lose hope. MSM says Ukraine is winning.

a reply to: Grimpachi

Are you aware that you consistently leave my questions unanswered when I catch you in your lies? Then you just disappear or change the subject only to repeat the process. Sad.

Current day Ukraine:



Oh #... I guess truly MSM must have lied to me! Because apparently these Donetsk Nazis get modern assault rifles and medals from war criminals like Pushilin, as opposed to historical reenactment gear like in your pic.

a reply to: Grimpachi

You just can't stop lying can you? The image is from 2018, NOT "current day".




Source -
Daily Koz - Nazis in the Ukraine

The military unit - Wiki - 14th Waffen Grenadier Division of the SS (1st Galician)

Although the Waffen-SS as a whole was declared to be a criminal organization at the Nuremberg Trials, the Galizien Division has not specifically been found guilty of any war crimes by any war tribunal or commission.

a reply to: Grimpachi

I guess you really are rooting for moderate Nazis

As you mention Nazi's do you mean such as Pavel Gubarev who was Govenor of the self proclaimed Donetsk People's Republic in 2014 ? He was a member of Russian National Unity, a neo-Nazi organisation.

a reply to: Cutepants

Nice Totenkopf insignia on the Russonazi's uniform.

Cheers