Russia Ukraine Update Thread - part 2

T-62M, while outdated, is still quite useful in low intensity conflicts by rebels. It is armed with laser guided anti tank missile which gives it range and accuracy advantage over Ukraine's Poland supplied T-72M1 which has not anti tank missile.

originally posted by: fuzz4262
T-62M, while outdated, is still quite useful in low intensity conflicts by rebels. It is armed with laser guided anti tank missile which gives it range and accuracy advantage over Ukraine's Poland supplied T-72M1 which has not anti tank missile.

Unless you happen to have a 50 Cal or larger, the crew usually runs away from the T62 soon after it's blinded.

Note: you have to get scarey close with the 50 Cal, and there are 3 separate targets to hit. 25mm can do it from a safe distance.

No need to waste Javelins on T62s.

TOS is really giving Vietnam war vibes with the big thermobaric blasts. These are good at hammering fortifications which regular artillery is not good at.

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originally posted by: fuzz4262
TOS is really giving Vietnam war vibes with the big thermobaric blasts. These are good at hammering fortifications which regular artillery is not good at.

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Apparantly you don't understand what that weapon is.

It is not useful for fortified positions, it's only effective use is killing humans in the open over a very large area.

russia has a habit of using it to kill large numbers of civilians inside cities, and is currently using a whole lot of them North of Kherson in an effort to delay the expected Ukrainian offensive there.

russia uses this to help compensate for the absolutely horrible accuracy in most of their weapons systems.

Many consider it's use a war crime, but I don't think that's legally accurate.

Yet.

a reply to: fuzz4262

T-62 available at UK Tank Museum if Vlad runs short.

a reply to: alldaylong

T-62M is vastly superior to basic T-62. T-62M is basically a tank destroyer armed with laser guided anti tank missile range 4 km which enables it to engage and destroy tanks beyond the range of tank gun.

a reply to: alldaylong


LOL!

I know of quite a few neutered T62s in small U.S. military museums.

Perhaps we should deliver a few of those to unexpecting russians on the front lines in Ukraine?

originally posted by: fuzz4262
a reply to: alldaylong

T-62M is vastly superior to basic T-62. T-62M is basically a tank destroyer armed with laser guided anti tank missile range 4 km which enables it to engage and destroy tanks beyond the range of tank gun.

Does T62 know how to dodge Javelins?

I doubt Ukraine is all that worried about a train load of T62s, but if they become challenging in any way we can always give Ukraine more Javelins.

We have enough on hand to destroy every tank on the planet.

This is something you don't see everyday. Chechen Muslims flying Communism flag on a BTR shouting Ukrainians surrender in heavy Chechen accent.

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a reply to: PatriotGames4u

They probably send some Alligator / Havoc / modernized Mi-35M Hind ahead of tanks to shoot up Javelin soldiers.

originally posted by: fuzz4262
a reply to: PatriotGames4u

They probably send some Alligator / Havoc / modernized Mi-35M Hind ahead of tanks to shoot up Javelin soldiers.

Javelins travel with Stingers, sorry fuzz, any russian chopper that comes close is gonna burst into flames.

It's why russia has rarely used any helicopters since the first week of the war.

a reply to: PatriotGames4u

No fuel. Not easy to move Javelin and Stinger around. Su-34 flies too high for Stinger. Su-34 kills Stinger soldiers laser guided bombs.

originally posted by: fuzz4262
a reply to: PatriotGames4u

No fuel. Not easy to move Javelin and Stinger around. Su-34 flies too high for Stinger. Su-34 kills Stinger soldiers laser guided bombs.

No fuel? Whaaaat?

Javelin and Stinger are carried by humans or any vehicle, and they're always in the same place.

If russia wants to destroy Javelins by air, it first has to get past Stinger, something russia has so far been unable to do.

russia has to fly ALL planes well below 10k in Ukraine or they immediately get shot down by upgraded S300s, even their strategic bombers.

Regardless of russia's daily reports of hitting S300s nearly every day of the war, they haven't actually hit anything except $300.00 radio transmitters that weren't anywhere near any S300s since the first week of the war, and the U.S. quickly replaced that one.

Stinger can easily hit planes at 10k, and has already destroyed a whole lot of russian planes, including at least 2 in the last 2 days.

russia hasn't flown any kind of aircraft over 10k in over 2 months.

For the same reason they rarely dare use any helicopters.

They immediately get shot down.

Perhaps things like this explain how unaware of russia's desperation you are.

Free floating marine mines have been seen in areas off the coast of Turkey and Romania-

LONDON, May 25. /TASS/.
The International Maritime Organization has warned of the free-floating naval mines adrift in the Black Sea off Romania and Turkey as a result of the conflict in Ukraine and called for caution.
"The [IMO] Secretariat has received reports of free floating sea mines in the Black Sea region, including off the coasts of Romania and Turkey, resulting from the ongoing conflict in Ukraine which presents a serious and immediate threat to the safety and security of crews and vessels operating in the region,"

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Map of the Black sea area-
upload.wikimedia.org...

I wonder if these mines were launched intentionaly,and just without regard for anyone-or maybe they floated off wreaked Russian vessels as they sank?

a reply to: Silcone Synapse


Good question.

A lot of folks have been trying to find out where they came from since early March.

Because some were discovered prior to the moskva sinking, they probably didn't float off either moskva or makarov as they were sinking.

russia has at least 5 subs in the Black Sea right now that are each capable of deploying around 2 dozen of these exact mines per trip, so the mines 'could, have come from them, but there is no evidence that they were deployed by sub yet.

russia had 8 raptor class patrol boats at the start of they war, and these have been observed by U.S. recon manually deploying these exact mines during training excercises near Crimea before the war, so they are at least capable, and appear to each have the capacity to carry 5-10 mines per trip if not carrying troops. russia has lost 5 of it's 8 Raptors so far so some of the mines 'could' have floated off these, but the Raptors have been watched pretty carefully and nobody has reported seeing them in the process of deploying any mines during the war.

Ukraine is known to have deployed a small number of anchored mines in the Marioupol and Odessa ports, but that was far fewer than the 400 or so that are currently believed to be free floating in the Black Sea right now, and russia has been observed removing those Ukrainian mines from those 2 ports early in the war anyway. Some of the 400 mines could have been from this group that broke free somehow before the russian ships arrived to clear them, but there is no evidence of this yet.

These mines can also be deployed by aircraft, but Ukraine doesn't have that ability and as far as I know there isn't any evidence of russia deploying them by air yet either.

Since they are free floating, and due to where the earliest ones were discovered, they 'could' have been deployed from Crimea, but there isn't any evidence of this yet either, and we are almost always watching activities there.

France and at least one other country attempted to get a few ships into Marioupol's harbor at about the right time, but there is no evidence of these ships deploying any mines, and it's highly unlikely that France would use those shoddy russian mines if they were to mine anything, which isn't something the French are known to do. The 2 ships also aren't large enough to carry 400+ of these, and weren't near the Ukrainian coast long enough to safely deploy 400+ of them anyway. Also, russia was closely monitoring these ships at all times and did not report any mine laying.

A real puzzle right now.

At least one country illegally deployed a large number of free floating russian made mines in the Black Sea, and that's a serious problem that needs to be resolved.





My best guess based on what little is known, assuming that the 400+ claim turns out to be accurate, is that russia intentionally deployed them from subs and/or aircraft, because deploying 400 during this period would have been nearly impossible for Ukraine to do, assuming they even had that many of these mines to begin with (they certainly did have 'some' of this model though).



Since several have been retrieved intact by NATO countries, we should be able to get an answer through forensics, but nothing has been made public so far.




Conspiracy theory level:

moskva and makarov had been intentionally deploying large numbers of these mines since the first week of the war, and these mines were stored just below the top deck right below the forward base of the S300 mast where the Neptunes stuck moskva.

A couple dozen of these mines stored there would perfectly explain the massive unexpected explosion that moskva experienced as a result of the Neptune strikes. The explosion ripped the massive ship in half from port to starboard, from the top deck to just above the keel. Neptunes can't do that, but a dozen of these mines sure could.

Same could have happened to makarov, if the russians were stoopid enough to store these things on deck, a single strike from a Baraktar could easily have sunk makarov.

If both of these ships were deploying free floating mines, it's probably safe to assume that their 5 subs were too.

But just a theory for now, nobody has released any evidence yet.

a reply to: PatriotGames4u

Stingers can be depleted by cheap drones like armed Orlan, KUB BLA which are built in the thousands or even tens of thousands. This ain't the 80s anymore. Russians have found ways to deplete Stingers.

Word has it Denmark sent 1 Harpoon truck to Ukraine. If it's at Odessa it be spotted by Russian recon satellite or drone and coordinates passed to Iskander cruise missile which can hit it from Sevastopol or Kherson.

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a reply to: fuzz4262

Yeah. Russia rah! Rah!

Give it a rest, eh?

a reply to: fuzz4262

www.youtube.com...

SURRENDER UKRANIE !!

a reply to: Silcone Synapse

NAVAL WEAPONS (Navweaps) website gives information on world naval weapons

Here is run down of earlier Soviet/Russian mines (World War II and earlier)

www.navweaps.com...

Author said he lacks information of later (post World War II) Soviet/Russian mines