Russia Ukraine Update Thread - part 2

originally posted by: F2d5thCavv2
a reply to: Annee

This whole thing is him trying to wind the clock backwards IMO.

That, and being remembered as a great Russian leader.

Those goals are looking more distant now.

Cheers

Absolutely!

Putin wants his "Glory Days".

No matter who pays the price.

originally posted by: F2d5thCavv2


There was always tension and ideological rivalry. But now -- open warfare north of the Alps for the first time since 1945 -- really marks Putin out as an erratically dangerous person.

Cheers

and forced into it by TPTB who have treated Russia amazingly badly for decades.

Russians have their sense of pride and the way they have been treated for decades in my opinion was always going to lead to an all out confrontation at some point in time, JBurns stated the same years ago too.

All the West had to do is acknowledge that Russia has its near abroad which it cares about and needs for its sense of security, not surprising really when the West has tried to invade numerous times since the mid 19th Century.

There could have been a genuine balance of power in the world post 1989 but certain elements in the West just couldn't help themselves and attempt to overthrow Russian influence everywher through 'coulred' revolutions.

We are where we are because of Western imperial policies designed to undermine Russian influence. i'm sorry if everyone is so blinkered by the Western MSM that they are blind to this reality

a reply to: ufoorbhunter

and forced into it by TPTB who have treated Russia amazingly badly for decades.

No agreement there.

Russian leadership made their own bed, both before and after the fall of the Berlin Wall.

You seem to miss the fact that the leadership in Moscow has been easily as arrogant as any in the world. Even now, or perhaps, especially now, they can't admit their judgment was in error and that they launched a war of aggression.

Russia has no right to dictate the affairs of other nations it considers its "near abroad". Come on UFOorbhunter, we all know this is no longer the 19th century. But the leadership in Moscow refuses to adapt to the modern era. That is NOT the fault of the West.

Cheers

originally posted by: Annee

originally posted by: ufoorbhunter

originally posted by: Annee

originally posted by: ufoorbhunter

originally posted by: Silcone Synapse
Russia have responded to Finlands plan to join NATO-

Russia has slammed Finland’s plans to apply to join NATO imminently, claiming it would “be forced” to retaliate if the long-neutral country joined the military alliance.
“Finland joining NATO is a radical change in the country’s foreign policy,” the Russian Foreign Ministry said in a statement Thursday.
“Russia will be forced to take retaliatory steps, both of a military-technical and other nature, in order to stop threats to its national security arising.”

www.cnbc.com...

That sounds like potential escalation-and one that would include the UK if Finland are retaliated against,as the UK now have a fresh defence pact with the Finns.
It feels to me as though we are inching toward a wider war.

Absolutely correct. The West is edging closer to a full scale nuclear war every day.

Britain needs to stop meddling in the affairs of eatern Europe and let the Slavs sort things out between themselves.

The West (whoever that is) did not start this.

Putin needs to stay in his own country.

AGAIN -- this is ALL on Mad Man Putin.

If a nuke is used -- its ALL on Mad Man Putin. NO ONE ELSE.

For sure the West started this. Let's go back to the mid 80's when the USA puppet master forced King of Saudi to lower oil prices to next to nothing by upping the pump output effectively breaking the finances of the USSR thus leading to its break up into manageable independent states easily coaxed into NATO colonisation. That really happened you know and was the precursor to the edge of nuclear war we stand at today. Probable nuclear death and for what? Getting involved in an inter Slav brotherly disagreement that will sort itsel out and is non of anybody elses interest

It's 2022 -- not 42 years ago.

Putin can get over his butt-hurt.

But it's non of the West's business. They need to keep British and Yankee snouts out of it.

I don't see Ethiopia getting involved or Mongolia either. Oh................... I wonder why

originally posted by: ufoorbhunter

originally posted by: Annee

originally posted by: ufoorbhunter

originally posted by: Annee

originally posted by: ufoorbhunter

originally posted by: Silcone Synapse
Russia have responded to Finlands plan to join NATO-

Russia has slammed Finland’s plans to apply to join NATO imminently, claiming it would “be forced” to retaliate if the long-neutral country joined the military alliance.
“Finland joining NATO is a radical change in the country’s foreign policy,” the Russian Foreign Ministry said in a statement Thursday.
“Russia will be forced to take retaliatory steps, both of a military-technical and other nature, in order to stop threats to its national security arising.”

www.cnbc.com...

That sounds like potential escalation-and one that would include the UK if Finland are retaliated against,as the UK now have a fresh defence pact with the Finns.
It feels to me as though we are inching toward a wider war.

Absolutely correct. The West is edging closer to a full scale nuclear war every day.

Britain needs to stop meddling in the affairs of eatern Europe and let the Slavs sort things out between themselves.

The West (whoever that is) did not start this.

Putin needs to stay in his own country.

AGAIN -- this is ALL on Mad Man Putin.

If a nuke is used -- its ALL on Mad Man Putin. NO ONE ELSE.

For sure the West started this. Let's go back to the mid 80's when the USA puppet master forced King of Saudi to lower oil prices to next to nothing by upping the pump output effectively breaking the finances of the USSR thus leading to its break up into manageable independent states easily coaxed into NATO colonisation. That really happened you know and was the precursor to the edge of nuclear war we stand at today. Probable nuclear death and for what? Getting involved in an inter Slav brotherly disagreement that will sort itsel out and is non of anybody elses interest

It's 2022 -- not 42 years ago.

Putin can get over his butt-hurt.

But it's non of the West's business. They need to keep British and Yankee snouts out of it.

I don't see Ethiopia getting involved or Mongolia either. Oh................... I wonder why

By that measure, events in Iraq and Syria were none of Russia's business, either. Yet Putin's troops got involved.

Perhaps we could "wonder why" in that case as well?

Cheers

originally posted by: ufoorbhunter

originally posted by: Annee

originally posted by: ufoorbhunter

originally posted by: Annee

originally posted by: ufoorbhunter

originally posted by: Silcone Synapse
Russia have responded to Finlands plan to join NATO-

Russia has slammed Finland’s plans to apply to join NATO imminently, claiming it would “be forced” to retaliate if the long-neutral country joined the military alliance.
“Finland joining NATO is a radical change in the country’s foreign policy,” the Russian Foreign Ministry said in a statement Thursday.
“Russia will be forced to take retaliatory steps, both of a military-technical and other nature, in order to stop threats to its national security arising.”

www.cnbc.com...

That sounds like potential escalation-and one that would include the UK if Finland are retaliated against,as the UK now have a fresh defence pact with the Finns.
It feels to me as though we are inching toward a wider war.

Absolutely correct. The West is edging closer to a full scale nuclear war every day.

Britain needs to stop meddling in the affairs of eatern Europe and let the Slavs sort things out between themselves.

The West (whoever that is) did not start this.

Putin needs to stay in his own country.

AGAIN -- this is ALL on Mad Man Putin.

If a nuke is used -- its ALL on Mad Man Putin. NO ONE ELSE.

For sure the West started this. Let's go back to the mid 80's when the USA puppet master forced King of Saudi to lower oil prices to next to nothing by upping the pump output effectively breaking the finances of the USSR thus leading to its break up into manageable independent states easily coaxed into NATO colonisation. That really happened you know and was the precursor to the edge of nuclear war we stand at today. Probable nuclear death and for what? Getting involved in an inter Slav brotherly disagreement that will sort itsel out and is non of anybody elses interest

It's 2022 -- not 42 years ago.

Putin can get over his butt-hurt.

But it's non of the West's business. They need to keep British and Yankee snouts out of it.

I don't see Ethiopia getting involved or Mongolia either. Oh................... I wonder why

Actually, after WWII -- a law/ruling was made that a larger country does not have the right to invade a smaller country.

Which is why the rest of the world is providing Ukraine help in equalizing this WAR -- that is 100% Putin's doing.

originally posted by: ufoorbhunter

But it's non of the West's business. They need to keep British and Yankee snouts out of it.

I don't see Ethiopia getting involved or Mongolia either. Oh................... I wonder why

It isn't Russia's business either what Ukraine does.... Or what Finland does etc etc... No one wants to attack Russia, EU just wants to buy their energy, so what threat does Russia have?

i wonder...Since teh west apparently support a return to nazi ism according to putin,can we call him a racist? because the term applies in current use because he is hostile to everyone but russians. SO lets all start calling putin a racist. I bet he will really enjoy that.

a reply to: ufoorbhunter

Finns aren't Slavs....not that I see the relevance.
Wrong is wrong.

If Russia wasn't being so aggressive towards its neighbours Finland wouldn't feel so threatened and thus need to seek protection.

You're self-loathing is becoming more and more apparent with each post you make.

originally posted by: Freeborn
a reply to: ufoorbhunter

Finns aren't Slavs....not that I see the relevance.
Wrong is wrong.

If Russia wasn't being so aggressive towards its neighbours Finland wouldn't feel so threatened and thus need to seek protection.

You're self-loathing is becoming more and more apparent with each post you make.

It seems to me fear of change is what it is in reality. they are afraid of death so much they cant see straight.

a reply to: yuppa

I honestly have no idea what drives the Putin worship and self-loathing.

Most of us have little regard or respect for our leaders, but why that should automatically mean that people support a de facto dictator who has invaded a neighbouring nation and is responsible for the deaths of thousands of people and the human displacement of millions.

Or do they just want to be seen to be disagreeing with the general consensus and not be a 'sheeple' regardless, that they are somehow more enlightened and informed?

a reply to: Xtrozero

Russia was invaded by Finland in WW2 in Operation Barbarossa. They are pretty paranoid about it.

I really like the idea of truck launched cruise missiles. It's not as big as Tomahawk but cheaper and gets the job done.

twitter.com...

twitter.com...

originally posted by: zTastaufen

Russia was invaded by Finland in WW2 in Operation Barbarossa. They are pretty paranoid about it.

I agree Finland is rather paranoid as is about 10 other countries around Russia.

Russian soldiers caught on CCTV shooting civilians:


BBC News - Ukraine conflict: Russian soldiers seen shooting dead unarmed civilians
www.bbc.co.uk...


Before anyone says they don't like the source, it shows CCTV footage.

So much for not targeting civilians.

a reply to: zTastaufen

That was because Russia invaded Finland in 1939 (see the winter war).

originally posted by: zTastaufen
a reply to: Xtrozero

Russia was invaded by Finland in WW2 in Operation Barbarossa. They are pretty paranoid about it.

russia did it in 39 first.

a reply to: Freeborn

Or do they just want to be seen to be disagreeing with the general consensus and not be a 'sheeple' regardless, that they are somehow more enlightened and informed?

On occasion, I think that would make a good thread. CT versus conventional analysis.

It seems to me a lot of CT-ers have chosen to make their stand on a hill named "Putin is a white hat", and they're too stubborn to adjust their outlook, no matter how much new information they encounter.

While the CT view is certainly valid and useful regarding many issues and questions, I don't think it should be applied exclusively. The war in Ukraine, while including aspects well suited to the CT view, is in general better explained by consideration of national agendas and the psychology of national leaders. While that may seem 'tame' to CT-ers, sometimes the boring-looking shoe is the best fit.

Cheers

a reply to: Xtrozero

Finland is Uralic. Russia is mainly Uralic. Moskva is an Uralic woord. Historically Finland is part of Russia and I would argue would do better as part of Russia considering it's only 5 million people.

a reply to: zTastaufen

Welcome to ATS. How is weather in Moscow?