Russia Ukraine Update Thread

a reply to: Imhere

The virtue signallers and bleeding hearts will never accept responsibility for their own nation's malfeasance regards the current crisis. Any mention of context is deflected by the new popular meme word 'whataboutism. ATS has become nothing more than a side shoot of the MSM and war mongering narrators. Perhaps it always has been, with some dissenting voices being allowed lest the mask slips.

a reply to: Imhere

Why is that?

You don't carry my nation son, NATO or not, we defend our own shores.

Again i dont think you understand what constitutes NATO which is a collection of like minded defensive thinking nations and not any one standing army.

As to the US being top dog, its Europe son not the Americas, im thinking a few geography and history lessons may be in order where your lack of knowledge is concerned regarding the area in question.

What is it i feel so strong about pray-tell?

To be honest, Ukraine has shown Russia to be a military paper tiger. The only thing NATO is doing is balancing Russia's excessively large nuclear stockpile, and preventing Russia attacking Poland (like they did in 1939 with their then allies, the Germans), and/or the Baltic States.

It is true that some countries, such as Germany, have not played their part in NATO. In fact, only a few countries spend 2% of their GDP on defence, as agreed with NATO. The US, of course, but the UK and Greece, plus Poland and the Baltic States.

originally posted by: paraphi


It is true that some countries, such as Germany, have not played their part in NATO. In fact, only a few countries spend 2% of their GDP on defence, as agreed with NATO. The US, of course, but the UK and Greece, plus Poland and the Baltic States.

Also, lets not forget that, in lieu of what's already transpired, Germany has ratified their Constitution in order to make it law that 2% of their GDP be spent on NATO funding.

originally posted by: andy06shake
a reply to: Imhere

Why is that?

You don't carry my nation son, NATO or not, we defend our own shores.

Again i dont think you understand what constitutes NATO which is a collection of like minded defensive thinking nations and not any one standing army.

As to the US being top dog, its Europe son not the Americas, im thinking a few geography and history lessons may be in order where your lack of knowledge is concerned regarding the area in question.

What is it i feel so strong about pray-tell?

Answer the question.

Which country in NATO pays the most and carries it mainly?

Don’t think U.S is the Top Dog in NATO?

If you feel that strong, then Europe should be ok without U.S being in this Ukraine BS.

Period.

a reply to: alphabetaone

A 120 billion a year spent on developing a new army is indeed hardly a kick in the arse.

Lets just hope that one don't come back to bite the world on the arse aka history and people having rather a penchant for repetition.

Anyhoo Russia cant compete with such commitment and that's just the one nation.

a reply to: Imhere

I've asked you repeated queries that you have blatantly ignored several times now and replaced with your pathetic whataboutisms. LoL

The answer is plainly known that being America thus far that pays the most.

Again through, and please, answer the question.

Why is that?

Do you even have a clue as to the commitments on the table?

I think not or you would understand history and what actually constitutes a team effort never mind the reason NATO came about and why she still exists.

originally posted by: andy06shake
a reply to: Imhere

I've asked you repeated queries that you have blatantly ignored several times now and replaced with your pathetic whataboutisms. LoL

The answer is plainly known that being America thus far that pays the most.

Again through, and please, answer the question.

Why is that?

Do you even have a clue as to the commitments on the table?

I think not or you would understand history and what actually constitutes a team effort never mind the reason NATO came about and why she still exists.

Thus far? Or by far?

Regardless, thank you for acknowledging that U.S pays the most.

I’ll answer it for you. It’s by far.

Majority.

originally posted by: Imhere

Which country in NATO pays the most and carries it mainly?

It doesn't need to be answered because history and budgetary reports obviate the answer. You simply seem to think you're making a salient point that is, frankly, obvious.

originally posted by: Imhere

If you feel that strong, then Europe should be ok without U.S being in this Ukraine BS.

Is that how you think like-minded democratic international affairs should go? What about intranational affairs? You think the people who pay the most taxes should be afforded a higher level of Constitutional protections than those who pay the least?

(Hint: if you do, you're an autocrat)

originally posted by: alphabetaone
It is true that some countries, such as Germany, have not played their part in NATO.

Let's not forget, the 2% commitment was made nearly 20 years ago. Germany and other countries have been hiding behind the US, the UK and others who funded their defence at agreed levels.

The US has a legitimate grievance against the stingy Germans and others - who are rich countries. You just need to look at aircraft movements over the Ukrainian area. Mostly US assets, with some UK. No German, or French intel aircraft in sight. It's the UK and US who are supporting Ukraine in intelligence because the rest of NATO have sat on their hands for decades getting fat.

I digress. But, I do wonder how much help the Ukrainians are getting with intel and such from the US and UK, and how many boots are actually on the ground providing practical support? Given that up until a couple of weeks ago Germany did not allow UK transports with ATMs and other kit to overfly their airspace, I doubt the Germans have even got out of bed.

originally posted by: paraphi

Let's not forget, the 2% commitment was made nearly 20 years ago. Germany and other countries have been hiding behind the US, the UK and others who funded their defence at agreed levels.

The US has a legitimate grievance against the stingy Germans

Agreed. The commitment was made, but without some law structure in place, it's as good as toilet paper. That's why, to me, its important to know the distinction between having an agreement (which rightly can be shirked) and a law in place cementing the issue in all budgetary council meetings.

Having the people of Germany - especially the PM - stand up and say we want a law ensuring our commitment, is laudable.

a reply to: Imhere

Dance around the query all you wish.

The "why" of it all is rather an important part of the equation.

And something you obviously fail to understand hence your refusal to answer the question.

History can help you in that department.

a reply to: [post=26421526]PacificViking[/

That building has at least 3 floors . It’s also easy to see there is a big time difference between the 2 photos . Yes the vehicles are no longer there but also the 2 rows of trees out the front are missing as is the foliage in the surrounding trees . These photos aren’t a few hours apart they are many months apart

So Russia is now drafting a presidential decree banning foreign nationals in Russian territory that they deem "unfriendly" ?

In other words, the rest of the world other than China and Belarus?

Russia is drafting a presidential decree that will ban the entrance of foreign nationals from countries deemed "unfriendly" to Russia, foreign minister Sergey Lavrov said on Monday.

Lavrov said Moscow is focusing its diplomatic attention on developing measures against the United States and its allies following the barrage of economic sanctions imposed on Russia for its ongoing invasion of Ukraine.

The foreign minister stressed these actions are being taken as a response to the US' "unfriendly actions," citing "illegitimate sanctions" that "infringe on the rights of Russian entities and citizens."

"A draft presidential decree is currently being developed on retaliatory visa measures in connection with the unfriendly actions of a number of foreign states," Lavrov said in a meeting of Russia's ruling party, United Russia, on international cooperation.

The visa measures will introduce several restrictions preventing entry to Russian territory, the foreign minister stated.

This is just me talkin, but I find it incredibly disturbing when a nuclear armed state, especially as large as Russia, begins expelling diplomats....its a tired and stupid play. It also wont help lift sanctions.

Meanwhile, Russia has continued expelling NATO members' diplomats as three Slovakian representatives were declared persona non grata by the Russian foreign ministry. Later on Monday, North Macedonia announced it has expelled five Russian diplomats from the Balkan state.

Also on Monday, Lavrov called for a meeting between Vladimir Putin and his Ukrainian counterpart "once the two sides are closer to agreeing on key issues."

Speaking to Serbian media outlets, Lavrov added that any meeting between Putin and Zelenskiy to exchange views on the conflict right now would be counter-productive. Talks between Russian and Ukrainian negotiators are set to resume on Monday in Turkey.

Russia to ban entrance of foreign nationals from US and allies

We should make no mistake, Putin alone brought these sanctions down upon the Russian people, not the entirety of the rest of the world or perceived "unfriendly entities".

Roman Abramovich and Ukrainian Peace Negotiators Suffer Symptoms of Suspected Poisoning

Russian billionaire Roman Abramovich and Ukrainian officials — who were negotiating an end to Moscow’s invasion reportedly — suffered symptoms suggesting they were poisoned, according to a Wall Street Journal report.

Abramovich, the oligarch who is thought to be close to Russian President Vladimir Putin, and several Ukrainian government officials, came down with the symptoms after meeting in Kyiv earlier this month, The Journal reported.

Abramovich and two members of the Ukrainian delegation developed symptoms that included red eyes, peeling skin on their hands and face, and constant and painful tearing, according to the report.

More here

a reply to: WeDemBoyz

I think this is propaganda doesn't make sense they used a poison that made them break out and now are fine. I would assume if they were poisoned they would be in hospital Russians are very good at using poison to get rid of people.

This sounds more like an allergic reaction so I'm skeptical

a reply to: paraphi

I agree with you 100%, for far too long most other member nations of NATO have hidden behind the USA and the UK.

This crisis has proven a wake up call for a lot of people, including many at home who have become lazy and complacent.
Lets face it, every single government I can recall from Thatcher onwards has cut funding to our Armed Forces.'
I can't count the number of conversations I've had with people over the years who have supported this policy, nearly all quoting the 'Russia is our friend, no need to have such a strong Army/Navy' etc mantra.
Now, they all know better.

I can sort of understand Germany's approach over the years.
For generations they've had it drummed into them that they more or less can't be trusted with strong and large Armed Forces.
That's nonsense, whilst we have to guard against expansionism and the unnecessary use of force by all nations Germany is right at the heart of European politics and affairs and has to be strong and confident.

Regardless, now isn't the time for retrospective finger pointing, we are where we are.
That we learn lessons and take appropriate action is far more important than bemoaning past actions and failings.

We need a strong NATO, that much is apparent.
I don't blame the USA for being disillusioned but we need to move forward....if that includes ensuring that all member nations are fully committed and if necessary getting rid of any dead wood and/or passengers then so be it.

a reply to: Imhere

The US also has an annual GDP that's larger than every other NATO member combined. So of course they're going to be the largest contributor. What point are you trying to make?

a reply to: Freeborn

Well we could not be more united now, well maybe a little bit, but you get what i mean.

As long as the Germany thingamabob don't come back to bite Europe in the arse.

Russia will remain all back of the bus falling on Putin's sword far as i can establish.

Only fingers being pointed that matter is the V sign straight towards Putin's puss.

originally posted by: Xcalibur254
The US also has an annual GDP that's larger than every other NATO member combined. So of course they're going to be the largest contributor. What point are you trying to make?

Greece contributes an even higher GDP percent than the US.