Russia Ukraine Update Thread

a reply to: andy06shake

V signs?

I'd really like the chance to slip an unfortunate one - or two - on his chin end.
I think the hardest thing would be stopping there.....

Germany would be no more a threat than anyone else, providing they stayed within the boundaries of the agreement and everyone remained vigilant.
Strength is in number sometimes.

a reply to: Freeborn



Pretty much along those lines.

And i don't even like the fellow that much, but he would have the measure of Putin's mettle in a heart beat.

originally posted by: dragonridr
a reply to: WeDemBoyz

I think this is propaganda doesn't make sense they used a poison that made them break out and now are fine. I would assume if they were poisoned they would be in hospital Russians are very good at using poison to get rid of people.

This sounds more like an allergic reaction so I'm skeptical

It's all over the internet today.

E.g.:Reuters

Russian billionaire Abramovich, Ukrainian peace negotiators hit by suspected poisoning

From WeDemBoyz provided link:

Chemical weapons experts said the symptoms seemed to suggest that the officials were targeted with porphyrin, organophosphates, or bicyclic substances. The experts believe that the dosage used in the attack was deliberately low and that the intent was merely to frighten the targets rather than to cause permanent, irreversible damage, Bellingcat is reporting.

What I wonder about is this: why it's out just today (reportedly happened on 3-4th of March)?; why would the both parties be targeted (take one for the team/an accident/Abramovich fell out of favour)?; could it be that somebody went rogue and the move didn't have a clearance?; what is the stance of Abramovich regarding this?

Very interesting.

From "Anonymous"

Leaked document from Russia with order to film propaganda videos in order to discredit the attitude of Ukrainian forces to POWs

mobile.twitter.com...

follow the twitter link to view the docment...its in Russian, so I cant read it, but maybe one of y'all can read it to verify. It's allegedly an effort to get Russian troops to stop surrendeing to Ukraine.

a reply to: andy06shake

Indeed.
For all his 'sins' he was what this country needed at the time.

If he was around today I doubt Putin would have taken as many liberties with us that he has.

a reply to: WeDemBoyz

It's fake and debunked already. Paper this "anonymous" posted has lots of spelling errors in it. Below pic highlights the most obvious one



Also the signature used in that "official" paper is from a signature generator found on the web. If it was a legit signature, it would look more unique right?



Below pic is what a real official Russian document looks like, with real signatures.

originally posted by: AugustusMasonicus

originally posted by: Xcalibur254
The US also has an annual GDP that's larger than every other NATO member combined. So of course they're going to be the largest contributor. What point are you trying to make?

Greece contributes an even higher GDP percent than the US.

Good for Greece.

originally posted by: andy06shake

Is that the famous 'up your bum' photo before he flipped it around?

Love this guy, BTW.

a reply to: Freeborn

Agreed.

a reply to: Freeborn

I couldn't possibly agree with that more.

a reply to: wordforword

Updating:

PODOLIAK DISMISSES ALLEGATIONS ABOUT POISONING OF UKRAINE'S NEGOTIATOR.

Kyiv Independent

The Wall Street Journal reported that three participants of the Ukraine-Russia talks on March 3 in Belarus had experienced symptoms of suspected poisoning. They include two Ukrainians and Russian oligarch Roman Abramovich. In a comment to Hromadske news outlet, Mykhailo Podoliak, an advisor to presidential administration, dismissed the allegation as “speculation,” adding that all Ukrainian negotiators “are working as usual.”

Just heard it on the radio again about poisoning attempt... What is going on here?

originally posted by: wordforword

Just heard it on the radio again about poisoning attempt... What is going on here?

On the surface, it honestly sounds like psyop's.

Fear isn't always generated from a real scenario, in this case, i think confusion (much like the confusion youre experiencing) is the intended effect.

I don't know if these numbers are right I got it from Google.
These estimates are given by the Russian government, and Soviet Union.
====
In the 10 year war in Afghanistan the Soviet Union reported they loss 14,453 troops (1979-1989)
In Chechnya (1999-2005) approximately 2,000 ?
in Georgia they reported 67 ?
By their estimates that 16,520 KIA
If I got this right that's 17 years of war ?

originally posted by: alphabetaone

originally posted by: wordforword

Just heard it on the radio again about poisoning attempt... What is going on here?

On the surface, it honestly sounds like psyop's.

Fear isn't always generated from a real scenario, in this case, i think confusion (much like the confusion youre experiencing) is the intended effect.

Either psyops or bad reactions from the 'antidote' cartridges that russia is giving their troops to carry.

Maybe both, after realizing their own 'antidote' cartridges cause that reaction kgb just turned it into a timely false flag.

a reply to: alphabetaone

About a week into the invasion I posted a couple of times here on ATS that Abramovich had been trying to broker peace talks between Ukraine and Russia.

Its well known that Abramovich has had relatively close links to Putin in the past.
What's less well known is that he also has very close links with many leading Ukrainian politicians and 'businessmen'.

Apparently people connected to the Ukraine government sent feelers out to several prominent Russian oligarchs in the hope that they would help bring about some sort of ceasefire etc.
By all accounts Abramovich was the only who replied and actively sought to bring the two sides together.

In his current frame of mind I wouldn't be surprised at all if Putin viewed this as some sort of betrayal....and we all know how he responds to things like that.

originally posted by: PatriotGames4u

originally posted by: alphabetaone

originally posted by: wordforword

Just heard it on the radio again about poisoning attempt... What is going on here?

On the surface, it honestly sounds like psyop's.

Fear isn't always generated from a real scenario, in this case, i think confusion (much like the confusion youre experiencing) is the intended effect.

Either psyops or bad reactions from the 'antidote' cartridges that russia is giving their troops to carry.

Maybe both, after realizing their own 'antidote' cartridges cause that reaction kgb just turned it into a timely false flag.

It could be!

It could also just be a huge coincidence....

I do have suspicions though, that since Abramovich, being a Russian billionaire and one ostensibly aiding Ukraine (to a point, though in the Kremlin it might be perceived more threateningly than it actually is) was also allegedly affected, that it would send mixed signals to Ukraine and the world at large just how far Putin is willing to go.

a reply to: Freeborn

Indeed. I was just typing almost the exact same thing as you did.

a reply to: alphabetaone

What would be the intended long term effect though? To discredit Ukrainians?

Asking bec I'd like to understand all this better.

At the moment news are blasting the 'poisoning story' with the BOTH parties affected.

According to Russian BBC, source close to Abramovich confirmed that the billionaire experienced symptoms of poisoning during peace talks in Kyiv a few weeks ago.
BBC Russia

However, a spokesman for Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky said he was not aware of such an incident.

The Russian BBC states:

The investigation that uncovered these facts was led by Bellingcat's Hristo Grozev (recognized as a "foreign agent" in Russia), who gave the same details a few minutes later.

According to Grozev, quoted by the Wall Street Journal, it was impossible to take samples from the victims in Lviv, where they were at the time, in a timely manner.

A BBC source close to Abramovich told some more details of what happened. They are slightly different from the version provided by Bellingcat (recognized as a "foreign agent" in Russia). According to our interlocutor, the symptoms appeared "a couple of weeks ago plus or minus" after Abramovich's first trip to Kyiv.

After her, he and Rustem Umerov went to Istanbul through Poland. "When they woke up, they had problems - a wild headache, there were problems with vision," - said the source of the BBC. According to him, Abramovich completely lost his sight for some time, his skin also peeled off. Umerov's symptoms were not so severe. Both victims were treated at a local clinic.

A few days later, Abramovich's symptoms disappeared. After that, he again went to Kyiv, says the source of the BBC.

According to one hypothesis, the poisonous substance could have been sprayed into the air. According to him, the victims did not come to understand who exactly could organize the poisoning: "They thought both on the Ukrainian and on the Russian side."

By the time the German forensics were able to examine Abramovich and the Ukrainian negotiators, it was no longer possible to detect traces of the poison.

"It was not an assassination attempt, just a warning," the WSJ quoted Grozev as saying. According to Bellingcat, the dose and type of poison was not intended to kill, was not capable of causing permanent damage to health, and was used more as a deterrent.

Did the West just got baited?

US casts doubt on claim Roman Abramovich and Ukrainian peace negotiators were victims of poisoning

Sky News

In a series of tweets, Bellingcat added more details, saying: "Abramovich, along with another Russian entrepreneur, had taken part in the negotiations alongside Ukraine's MP Rustem Umerov.

"The negotiation round on the afternoon of 3 March took place on Ukrainian territory, and lasted until about 10pm."

Later that night, back at an apartment in Kyiv, the three people felt initial symptoms - including eye and skin inflammation and "piercing pain in the eyes" which did not abate until the morning, according to Bellingcat.

Bellingcat added: "An alternative less likely hypothesis was use of microwave irradiation. The symptoms gradually subsided in the course of the following week.

US official said: "The intelligence highly suggests this was environmental," adding: "E.g., not poisoning."
The official, who spoke on condition of anonymity, declined to elaborate.

originally posted by: wordforword

What would be the intended long term effect though? To discredit Ukrainians?

Quite truthfully, it doesn't have to be long-term, merely enough for a news cycle, which these days, is measure in hours.

originally posted by: wordforword

Asking bec I'd like to understand all this better.

At the moment news are blasting the 'poisoning story' with the BOTH parties affected.

Well, if Abramovich is perceived as an "unfriendly" by Putin, then in his mind only 3 enemy combatants (2 Ukranians and 1 Russian traitor - according to them) were affected.

originally posted by: wordforword

However, a spokesman for Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky said he was not aware of such an incident.

Here's where it gets tricky politically....Zelensky im certain is aware of such an incident, but since it seems Zelensky is pushing toward a "neutrality" posture, it's very likely he doesn't want to scuttle that ship right out of the harbor.

originally posted by: wordforword

Did the West just got baited?

Having to ask that question (which is quite possible), means it likely had the intended effect if it was intentional.

Will Russia (Putin)?
Wont Russia (Putin)?
Did it happen?
Did it not happen?

It's a game and a risk.