Russia Ukraine Update Thread

a reply to: PatriotGames4u

most Ukrainians not in the recently russia infested dombass or crimea.

Most Ukrainians i suppose those areas in the west of Ukraine where the volunteers had gone to. Most of East Ukrainians had suffered under the attacks by the far right groups.



Which you keep denying.
Again you keep ignoring my reply what interests does Ukraine have you on you?

a reply to: PatriotGames4u

most Ukrainians not in the recently russia infested dombass or crimea.

Most Ukrainians i suppose those areas in the west of Ukraine where the volunteers had gone to. Most of East Ukrainians had suffered under the attacks by the far right groups.



Which you keep denying.
Again you keep ignoring my reply what interests does Ukraine have you on you?

assuming certain s300 commitments have been delivered

Those will things will keep getting destroyed.

originally posted by: vNex92
a reply to: PatriotGames4u

most Ukrainians not in the recently russia infested dombass or crimea.

Most Ukrainians i suppose those areas in the west of Ukraine where the volunteers had gone to. Most of East Ukrainians had suffered under the attacks by the far right groups.



Which you keep denying.
Again you keep ignoring my reply what interests does Ukraine have you on you?

assuming certain s300 commitments have been delivered

Those will things will keep getting destroyed.

Maybe, maybe not. russia mostly stopped entering Ukrainian airspace, preferring to launch stand off weapons from inside russia, where the S300s won't do any good anyway.

I haven't answered because it's a ridiculous and insulting question of the most trollish kind.

No other reason.

a reply to: vNex92

and again the Azov unit is composed of 600 people and use the idiotic Nazi crap. The attempt to try and expand those numbers by making bs claims about Ukrainians and all are Nazis is typical Russian propaganda and not based in reality.

With that being said how do Ukrainian laws work? In the states it would not be a crime to affiliate with some of these idiotic groups. Further threats in and of themselves dont te4chnically violate any laws. In the states in order for police to take action a violation of the law must occur.

How do laws work in Ukraine, and if you dont know just say so and dont guess.

and Yes, the Azov battalion only had 600 members. In case you forgot we are talking about the war and not Russian propaganda. Russia, by the way, has about 70k neo nazis russians in the country so you might want to do research before throwing rocks in your glass house.

* - Ukrainian army cleared Husarivka in Kharkiv region from Russian troops, many equipment destroyed

* - Britain: Russian forces are trying to encircle the Ukrainian forces in the vicinity of the Donbass region

* - 7 attacks were repulsed in Donetsk and Luhansk directions, according to the General Staff of the Armed Forces of Ukraine. Russia lost 8 tanks, 8 armored vehicles, 3 vehicles and one mortar.

* - Today Ukrainian military destroyed 18 air targets: one plane, twelve drones and 5 missiles

* - Heavy shelling targeting Kharkiv

* - 39-year-old Lviv cameraman of @24tvua and @ZaxidNet Yuriy Oliynyk was killed during battles in eastern Ukraine

* - British Foreign Secretary to The Telegraph: Tough sanctions can be lifted if Putin withdraws his forces from Ukraine

* - Heavy shelling targeting Lysychansk

* - Ukraine: Video that would show a TOS-1A Solntsepek targeting the Ukrainian armed forces in Kamienka, in the Kharkiv region

As a reminder -

Just so people know and understand. Information from war zones can become confusing as there will no doubt be info released from the players (on both sides) involved that might not necessarily be true.

As such take everything as a possibility and NOT as absolute truth.

The very first casualty in a war is the truth and all warfare is based on deception

Flightradar24

* - LAGR274 - Boeing KC-135R Stratotanker / USAF - Over Romania
* - LAGR170 - Boeing KC-135R Stratotanker / USAF - Over Poland
* - ROF1104 - Antonov An-30 / Romanian Air force - Over Romania
* - REBEL80 - Beech C-12U-3 Huron / US Army - Over Lithuania
* - EEF44 - PZL-Mielec M-28 Skytruck / Estonian Air Force - Middle of the Baltic
* - 47141 - Antonov An-148-100E / Russian Air Force - Entering Russian airspace from Belarus

26 March update.

Key Takeaways

* Russian forces continue their unsuccessful efforts to secure positions from which to attack and seize Kyiv despite the supposed reframing of the Russian military’s priorities by First Deputy Chief of the Russian General Staff Sergei Rudskoi on March 25.

* The Russians will likely make important progress in seizing the city of Mariupol in the coming days and will probably take the city in the near future. The scale of Russian losses in the fight for Mariupol will determine whether the city’s fall will permit Russia to renew large-scale combat operations in eastern Ukraine. It is too soon to tell, but current indicators suggest that Russian losses have been and will continue to be high.

* The captured city of Kherson appears to be resisting Russian control in ways that are driving the Russian military and national guard to concentrate forces on securing it. The requirement to secure captured cities can impose a significant cost on over-stretched Russian forces and hinder their ability to conduct offensive operations.

More at URL above.

Cheers

originally posted by: F2d5thCavv2

Best outcome will be for interests in Russia to rid themselves of Putin and approach Ukraine and the West for an end to the war that doesn't completely trash the Russian economy and punish the people of Russia.

The problem is that anybody who wishes to overthrow Putin risks triggering a second Russian Civil War and the Chinese invading Siberia under the guise of liberation.

Would such a group be more oligarchs? Yes. But if the West is lucky, they would be more pragmatic oligarchs who want to guard their interests without trying to force a return to the geopolitical situation of the 1980s.

If the oligarchs perceive Russian military expansion as the answer to their country's shrinking population and economic woes, they will back Putin.

What we know as Ukraine was once part of the Polish Duchy of Lithuania . Poland has a fanatical desire to restore territory from history.

I predict Poland will invade Ukraine sparking a nuclear war.

originally posted by: PacificViking.

I predict Poland will invade Ukraine.

Wager?

These are supposed to be the good guys.

twitter.com...

t.me...

Russian troops are trying to take away Ukrainian POWs before their previous human shields/citizens lynch them.

t.me...

originally posted by: alldaylong
a reply to: ISeekTruth101

The hypocrisy is incredible. Palpable, all human life is equal but the numbers are 1K in ukraine and all of a sudden Putin is the most evil man in history. 1K collateral damage.

And then here we have two Japanese cities filled with purely civilians going about daily life. Sons, moms, dads, husbands, babies, grandparents, wives... being bombed into oblivion by nuclear wepaons

1 K killed in Ukraine in 1 Month. Figuees can soon add up as longer it goes on. Japan killed 16 million civilians in China alone during WW II

So what that adds up to is Total War! You seem to be saying that because Japanese generals and their soldiers killed so many in China (his is indeed an horrific number), then that makes Japanese civilians - women and children - a fair target in Hiroshima and Nagasaki? That the nuking of hundreds of thousands is therefore justified?

I can’t accept that!

What I can understand, even if I don’t agree with it, is that the decision was made that it’s ‘total war’ - it’s them or us, so anything goes when existential survival is at stake. Was it really at stake at that point, or did Truman want to make an international statement of US power, along with preserving the manpower and money a drawn out conventional war would cost? Who really knows? None of us, I’m sure.

But my bringing of those nukes into this debate was not to vilify the US for using them (that’s for another thread). It was to highlight the hypocrisy in play when accusing Putin of ‘total war’ war crimes, when so far the greatest civilians casualty assaults (in Japan and carpet bombing of Dresden, Germany which apparently killed more than the Nukes according to Kurt Vonnegut) have been committed by the west.

Moreover, I’m certainly not saying that these historic western atrocities justify Putin doing likewise - what’s good for the goose…etc). My points slightly more nuanced than tit for tat. I’m suggesting that everything is about perspective and as long as we refuse to see things from an enemies perspective there is surely no chance of the compromise necessary for peace.

The West: Putin must stop now, this is very wrong.
Putin: But you’ve done worse in the past
The West: That’s different and in the past - doesn’t count
Putin: Meh, that’s convenient!
The West: You must not use Nukes in Ukraine
Putin: but you’ve used them on Japan
The West: That’s different and in the past - doesn’t count
Putin: Meh, that’s convenient!

I’m not defending Putin - his actions are monstrous. But if you’re Japanese, or from Dresden in the late 40s the West’s actions would look just as monstrous.

How does this all really help us now? Honestly don’t really know. Should this mean we give Putin any respect, or is that wise. Again, dunno! But it’s surely fair to say that there’s some pot calling the kettle black going on.

originally posted by: McGinty
I’m not defending Putin - his actions are monstrous. But if you’re Japanese, or from Dresden in the late 40s the West’s actions would look just as monstrous.

Or Stalin? Or Saddam, Or more recent history the Soviet Union, ethnic cleansing, famine and repression? What example from the past do you chose? Plenty of conflicts to chose from, many caused by and fanned by Russia. Why not stick to the present situation?

Putin's Russia invading a neighbour, thus causing horrendous death and misery. For some this is a fun roller coaster, but for Ukraine it's surely a hellish situation. For those who have lost their lives on both sides, it's pointless.

a reply to: Xcathdra

They are not debunked just because you say so, otherwise why have you not provided any rebuttal yourself?

Ukraine cites different claims

300 civilians

1,000 civilians

1,200 civilians



So since it is your people doing all the lying, how about you provide a real answer and not more B/S?

originally posted by: Freeborn
a reply to: McGinty

I think the sad reality is that its inevitable that Ukraine will end up conceding some land to Russia.
This has been a constant throughout the history of human conflict the world over.....borders move.

Yes, this is the bottom line that for me and has been for some time. For me it makes the moral debates, the name calling and gung-ho endorsement of Ukrainian’s fighting and dying all moot and a little distasteful.

As you say it’s inevitable that Putin will get parts of the east - his sea route - and has been for a while, so why are we waiting, killing hundreds of Ukrainian and yes, Russians, neither of which probably understand why they’re being forced to kill their neighbours.

Of course Ukraine needs to fight until a settlement is reached as a bargaining chip, but parts of the country will become part of Russia. Indeed these regions have changed hands before, so are we all really saying that this time it’s worth an extinction event to stop it changing hands for the umpteenth time. It’s not the first and won’t be the last time borderlands swap flags.

Of course the fear is that conceding anything to Putin may encourage him to try and take more. But he’s suffered great losses here - he and hi people know it. If this ends without him having taken Kiev and Ukraine that’s the best result we can hope for and in itself will represent a huge deterrent to Putin trying this again.

It’s not unreasonable that Putin wants nato to stay out of his bordering nations - we’d no more want Russian troops in Scotland, or Mexico. We should give Putin that promise, but also demand that in return those nations are armed to defend their independent sovereignty from any future aggression from Russia.

Putin won’t be happy about that, but if he’s allowed to take his new eastern Ukraine territory and sell that as a win at home, he’ll surely prefer that to a costly, endless war in Ukraine, or alternatively nuclear escalation (assuming he’s of relatively sound mind and the rumours of him sending his family to hide in an underground city as BS).

a reply to: Grimpachi


Did someone claim there were 'good guys' in Ukraine?

Anyone?

Ever?

Ukraine was repeatedly denied NATO membership for a reason.



There are two bad guys in this conflict, but one of them is FAR worse having repeatedly bombed civilians, including with cluster and vacuum bombs, after invading it's peaceful neighbor.

Both are 'bad guys', but only one of them is trying to do a hitler impression.

originally posted by: PacificViking
a reply to: Xcathdra

They are not debunked just because you say so, otherwise why have you not provided any rebuttal yourself?

Ukraine cites different claims

300 civilians

1,000 civilians

1,200 civilians



So since it is your people doing all the lying, how about you provide a real answer and not more B/S?

You are expecting accurate real time information from a war zone?

Absurd.

a reply to: PacificViking

In that scenario, if there are ever any humans in the future (which is unlikely) their historians will not be recording that Putin was the villain. Indeed, in their third testament telling the story of that Armageddon the word Satan would be replaced by the word NATO.

a reply to: PatriotGames4u

Yeah, the ones with actual Hitler photos on their wall.

There were no Ukrainian soldiers in Mariupol defending. You don't get to be called a defender when you are purposely killing the civilian populace and hiding behind them as shields.

originally posted by: Grimpachi
a reply to: PatriotGames4u

Yeah, the ones with actual Hitler photos on their wall.

There were no Ukrainian soldiers in Mariupol defending. You don't get to be called a defender when you are purposely killing the civilian populace and hiding behind them as shields.

Putin has a hitler photo on his wall?

Nobody else did any invading.

Only putin is behaving like hitler, no matter how much propaganda pudding you smear around.