Russia Ukraine Update Thread

a reply to: PatriotGames4u

So all invaders are now Hitler? Is that what you are claiming?

Is the bar for being followers of Hitler that their country is the invader?

Deleted because the quote coding is broke

originally posted by: Grimpachi
a reply to: PatriotGames4u

So all invaders are now Hitler? Is that what you are claiming?

Is the bar for being followers of Hitler that their country is the invader?

Making up propaganda in an attempt to justify invading and absorbing lands from a peaceful neighbor is very hitler-esq, yes.

originally posted by: paraphi

originally posted by: McGinty
I’m not defending Putin - his actions are monstrous. But if you’re Japanese, or from Dresden in the late 40s the West’s actions would look just as monstrous.

Or Stalin? Or Saddam, Or more recent history the Soviet Union, ethnic cleansing, famine and repression? What example from the past do you chose?

My point was not that the west are the only invaders and oppressors, but that almost everyone has gotten their hands dirty in this over the centuries.

originally posted by: paraphi
Plenty of conflicts to chose from, many caused by and fanned by Russia.

Indeed! But I’d imagine there are more caused by any one of the current and previous western empires.

originally posted by: paraphi
Why not stick to the present situation?

That’s a statement that is only ever made by those for whom the past is uncomfortable and undermines their narrative.

In negotiations do you think Putin isn’t going to bring up the west patchy record in civilian casualties when they protest his invasion and tactics? If the response is ‘Why not stick to the present situation’ I expect the negotiation will not end well.

Maybe the western reps in the negotiations have indeed been humble in regards to their own record - who knows? But it’s not generally the case in this thread and the hypocrisy is palpable.

originally posted by: paraphi
Putin's Russia invading a neighbour, thus causing horrendous death and misery. For some this is a fun roller coaster, but for Ukraine it's surely a hellish situation. For those who have lost their lives on both sides, it's pointless.

I completely agree! That’s why I hope for a negotiated settlement asap. That’ll mean conceding parts of Ukraine, but that’s inevitable, so why sacrifice more lives. The delay may indeed be down to Putin, but I hope it’s not down to the west wanting this to drag on as a gambit to bring down Putin (which I suspect is the case with some leaders, including Biden).

originally posted by: PatriotGames4u

originally posted by: Grimpachi
a reply to: PatriotGames4u

So all invaders are now Hitler? Is that what you are claiming?

Is the bar for being followers of Hitler that their country is the invader?

Making up propaganda in an attempt to justify invading and absorbing lands from a peaceful neighbor is very hitler-esq, yes.

Thank goodness we’ve never done that in the west

a reply to: PatriotGames4u

OK, but how does that apply to Ukraine? They certainly were not peaceful. 8 years and 14,000+ lives lost attacking the Donbas region attest to that.

Their stated goal to exterminate the populace because they only wanted the resources of the land add to that. The ones doing it wearing SS patches and waving swastika flags doesn't help the image either.

originally posted by: McGinty

originally posted by: PatriotGames4u

originally posted by: Grimpachi
a reply to: PatriotGames4u

So all invaders are now Hitler? Is that what you are claiming?

Is the bar for being followers of Hitler that their country is the invader?

Making up propaganda in an attempt to justify invading and absorbing lands from a peaceful neighbor is very hitler-esq, yes.

Thank goodness we’ve never done that in the west

Attempting to absorb lands from a peaceful neighbor?

No, the U.S. doesn't behave that way.

Certain European countries used to do it every few years like some kind of sport, but that was long ago, ending with hitler himself.

In fact most of the major military operations in our history were a result of someone else invading a peaceful neighbor.

What we hear and see is that russia seems to be disorganized and incompetent to wage war. I hear senior officers say that putin is embarresing himself with this invasion.

What I know is that the russians have advanced technology and a well oiled war machine with experienced soldiers. Putin is a fox and they play chess very well in russia. It would be a very big mistake to under estimate the russian army. Maybe its all by design that the capture of ukraine is going this difficult..

originally posted by: Grimpachi
a reply to: PatriotGames4u

OK, but how does that apply to Ukraine? They certainly were not peaceful. 8 years and 14,000+ lives lost attacking the Donbas region attest to that.

Their stated goal to exterminate the populace because they only wanted the resources of the land add to that. The ones doing it wearing SS patches and waving swastika flags doesn't help the image either.

AFTER russia 'invaded' and attempted to absorb portions of Ukraine.

I have no problem at all with Ukrainians trying to kick russian invaders out of dombas, why would you?

We would do exactly the same if those evil Canadians ever tried to do the same with Seattle & Portland.

originally posted by: xpert11

originally posted by: F2d5thCavv2

Best outcome will be for interests in Russia to rid themselves of Putin and approach Ukraine and the West for an end to the war that doesn't completely trash the Russian economy and punish the people of Russia.

The problem is that anybody who wishes to overthrow Putin risks triggering a second Russian Civil War and the Chinese invading Siberia under the guise of liberation.

Would such a group be more oligarchs? Yes. But if the West is lucky, they would be more pragmatic oligarchs who want to guard their interests without trying to force a return to the geopolitical situation of the 1980s.

If the oligarchs perceive Russian military expansion as the answer to their country's shrinking population and economic woes, they will back Putin.

Yep, with the west’s track record when dealing with a despot we don’t like you have to wonder if anyone has even considered what happens next if Putin is removed.

China may well exploit the situation, both for treasure and to prevent having a potentially unstable neighbour right on their doorstep.

Of course he’s bias and his statements need to be read as psy-op, but there was still some meat on the bones of Medvedev’s recent warning about a post Putin Russia breaking up into rogue states with nuclear weapons.

Scare tactics? Sure!
Possible? Sure!

a reply to: PatriotGames4u

i have no need of your childish games. Commander-in-Chief of the Armed Forces of Ukraine, Valery Zaluzhny, revealed in an intercepted conference call, that Poland plans to invade Western Ukraine . It is already widely known.

On 26 March 2022 Poland demanded return of Kaliningrad.

Poland demands return of Kaliningrad



Go figure...

a reply to: PatriotGames4u

Donbas left Ukraine after a US-backed coup and the new government installed did so against their constitution. The people of Donbas determined their own fate. I support that, why wouldn't you? The people of Donbas do not want to be a part of Ukraine. Ukraine doesn't want the people they want the land. If Texas seceded from the Union because they determined that the federal government did not uphold the constitution and placed unduly elected officials in charge I would support them. I would probably move to Texas myself.

I do not support any group trying to exterminate civilians. I do not support any group that uses their own civilians as meat shields and or slaughter them when they try to evacuate from a combat zone. I do not support governments that have self-proclaimed nazis added to their national military.

originally posted by: PacificViking
a reply to: PatriotGames4u

i have no need of your childish games. Commander-in-Chief of the Armed Forces of Ukraine, Valery Zaluzhny, revealed in an intercepted conference call, that Poland plans to invade Western Ukraine . It is already widely known.

On 26 March 2022 Poland demanded return of Kaliningrad.

Poland demands return of Kaliningrad

Go figure...

You in the market for a bridge?

a reply to: Grimpachi


That's the russian spin anyway, the rest of the world says otherwise.

a reply to: PatriotGames4u

No, expecting a straight answer from you on any topic is absurd. You dismiss my post how the bombing of Marupol theatre was a staged propaganda stunt, without offering any credible rebuttal.

mariupol theatre bombing was staged propaganda

a reply to: PatriotGames4u

The rest of the world is not western media.

Also, you should go back ad read articles from before this conflict and you will find that most of the western media had this same spin. In fact, most of my statements was completely sourced from older western media.

While it may be very convenient to label what I wrote as Russian spin it is a lie to do so.

FYI western media has been allowed into the Donbas area with the refugees from Mariupol. They are hearing the same horror stories about how Azov are butchers and fascists.

originally posted by: PacificViking
a reply to: PatriotGames4u

No, expecting a straight answer from you on any topic is absurd. You dismiss my post how the bombing of Marupol theatre was a staged propaganda stunt, without offering any credible rebuttal.

mariupol theatre bombing was staged propaganda

Because your post on the issue was an absurd rebuttal of Ukrainian claims, which I'm not even sure you quoted accurately.

Either way, I don't have any conspiracy theories to add to yours, so will just have to wait for actual evidence after the russians go home.

originally posted by: Grimpachi
a reply to: PatriotGames4u

The rest of the world is not western media.

Also, you should go back ad read articles from before this conflict and you will find that most of the western media had this same spin. In fact, my statement was completely sourced from older western media.

While it may be very convenient to label what I wrote as Russian spin it is a lie to do so.

The rest of the world IS an accurate description of the U.N.



I really have no interest in what western media has to say on just about any subject.

Except to mock them, I do enjoy mocking teevee democrats.

a reply to: PatriotGames4u

So all of your sources are from the UN?


Ther is not an eye-roll emote on here that comes close to what I wish to express. lol

a reply to: PatriotGames4u

Russia attacked Ukraine after Ukraine killed 14,000 Donbas civilians with artillery (confirmed by OSCE observers since 2014).

and after Zelensky went to the Munich Security Conference and revealed Ukraines' nuclear weapons program to an international audience then followed up with his threat to use nuclear weapons against Russia.



This threat alone was enough under international law to legitimize Russia's attack on Ukraine