Russia Ukraine Update Thread

originally posted by: Imhere

originally posted by: Xcathdra
Another issue Putin just created for himself. By disengaging in Kiev and claiming his forces are shifting to deal with the donbass area, that action frees up a lot of Ukrainian troops. Troops that can be used against Russia and the east to push russia out of Ukraine.

Putin has shot himself in the foot once again...

Crimea is set in stone.

Many certainly agree with that statement, and I did too until 2 weeks ago.

Not so certain anymore, but still the most likely outcome.

originally posted by: PatriotGames4u

originally posted by: McGinty

originally posted by: PatriotGames4u
a reply to: McGinty


Did Ukraine build any nukes?


Also, does that mean we can invade Iran now?

Or Iran can invade Israel now?

Or russia can invade Japan now?


Your logic needs some work.

If we did invade Iran over the nuke program, then ending that invasion would mean Iran agreeing to stop the program. Likewise that will need to be promised here.

I’m saying Putin is right or wrong to invade for this reason. I’m saying that now he’s done that the reasons need to be acknowledged, not denied and comprises made.

Debating who’s wrong and right is a childish debate. The debate that matters is what does it take to end this asap in a way that doesn’t invite future hostilities. That’s a fine line to walk.

Is no question who is right or wrong, putin invaded Ukraine.

That was wrong.

A wrong that is jot justified by the likelihood of previous wrongs.

What exactly is there to compromise on, is russia going to rebuild the country and bring back the dead?

The world doesn't need any more Chamberlains trying to pacify folks with hitleresq intentions.

Lol Hitler?

The democrat Michigan governor Gretchen Whitmer has been compared to Hitler and so has many things under the sun.

Hitler is Hitler. Stop making simpleton comparisons to Hitler.

a reply to: Imhere

Hitler is Hitler.

Just like Stalin was Stalin and Mao was Mao.

The gist of the situation being they were all geocidal maniacs hell bent on the destruction of anyone or anything that disagreed with them or there rhetoric.

They were bad men of the first order and the comparison where Vladimir Putin is concerned is self evident given his antics imho.

originally posted by: PatriotGames4u

originally posted by: Imhere

originally posted by: Xcathdra
Another issue Putin just created for himself. By disengaging in Kiev and claiming his forces are shifting to deal with the donbass area, that action frees up a lot of Ukrainian troops. Troops that can be used against Russia and the east to push russia out of Ukraine.

Putin has shot himself in the foot once again...

Crimea is set in stone.

Many certainly agree with that statement, and I did too until 2 weeks ago.

Not so certain anymore, but still the most likely outcome.

It’s more than likely the outcome.

Crimea is stone cold under Russia.

Trying to take that would be equilivant to taking Moscow.

Not happening.

a reply to: Imhere


Or what?

They are accurate comparisons to the actual man and his actual deeds, not the usual political hyperbole democrats love to throw at conservatives.

The madman invaded Ukraine over feelz about past 'wrongs' and made up a bunch of propaganda to justify invading a peaceful neighbor with the intent of stealing territory.

What other historical figure is a better comparison?

a reply to: McGinty

Ukraine's history is long and complicated.
Russia has no more valid claim to Ukraine than Poland or Lithuania have.
By far the most valid claim is that of Ukraine itself!

As for nuclear weapons.
Ukraine gave them up voluntarily upon gaining its independence.

Due to Putin's posturing and increasing threats from Russia Ukraine sought membership of NATO.
For various reasons this was repeatedly denied - those nasty bastard NATO people threatening Russia all the time eh.

A Ukrainian diplomat then said - once - that Ukraine MAY have to get nuclear weapons to defend itself from its threatening nuclear superpower neighbour.

I don't think anyone would have been happy if Ukraine had obtained nuclear weapons, including NATO.
At best they would have faced sanctions from all sides, NATO, EU and Russia.

Instead Putin's actions and his repeated threat to use first strike nuclear weapons has only edged the world closer to nuclear catastrophe.
Country's like Japan are now seriously considering their own policies on nuclear weapons.

As Andy pointed out, we in the UK are not solely reliant on anyone else to defend ourselves, we have independent nuclear capability.
An option I suspect more and more country's will be looking at in light of this crisis and Putin's threats.

The more country's have them the increased likelihood they'll be used again.....
Cheers Vlad.

originally posted by: andy06shake
a reply to: Imhere

Hitler is Hitler.

Just like Stalin was Stalin and Mao was Mao.

The gist of the situation being they were all geocidal maniacs hell bent on the destruction of anyone or anything that disagreed with them or there rhetoric.

They were bad men of the first order and the comparison where Vladimir Putin is concerned is self evident given his antics imho.

Putin isn’t close to Stalin or Mao or Hitler lol.

If you say “well Putin would be” you just lost the argument.

The body count in Ukraine doesn’t compare to Bush’s civilian body count in Iraq for example.

Nor Clinton’s on his illegal 78 days bombing of Serbia in 99’.

a reply to: Imhere

I think you may find history records the fellow in the same to similar manner.

As to losing arguments, well you are the one dishing out the "whataboutism" far as i can establish.

Which just happens to be and old Russian tactic in spades.

Something to keep in mind the body count and conflict in Ukraine is not over yet nor lightly to be anytime soon.

So you may wish to hold fire comparatively speaking until all the bloody cards are on the table.

originally posted by: andy06shake
a reply to: Imhere

I think you may find history records the fellow in the same to similar manner.

As to losing arguments, well you are the one dishing out the "whataboutism" far as i can establish.

Which just happens to be and old Russian tactic in spades.

Something to keep in mind the body count and conflict in Ukraine is not over yet nor lightly to be anytime soon.

So you may wish to hold fire comparatively speaking until all the bloody cards are on the table.

Yawn

You just contradicted yourself lol.

Carry on.

a reply to: Imhere

Life is full of contradictions and hypocrisy Imhere you will learn that as you get older.

However its the cowardly invasion of a peaceful nation by there tyrannical neighbour who were repeatedly claiming mere military exercises that's currently up for discussion aka the war in Ukraine.

As to carrying on, well one foot in front of the other tends to work well if you wish to go forward.

a reply to: Imhere

Putin isn’t close to Stalin or Mao or Hitler

Lock up or murder your political opponents. Check.

Lock up civilians for protesting. Check.

Rig elections. Check

Close circle of political cronies. Check

Commit acts of terror on foreign soil. Check

Illegal invasion of sovereign country. Check.

Yes, Putin has all the hallmarks of Hitler.

originally posted by: Grimpachi
a reply to: PatriotGames4u

OK, but how does that apply to Ukraine? They certainly were not peaceful. 8 years and 14,000+ lives lost attacking the Donbas region attest to that.

Their stated goal to exterminate the populace because they only wanted the resources of the land add to that. The ones doing it wearing SS patches and waving swastika flags doesn't help the image either.

You may want to watch this it discusses the Russian propaganda leading up to the war. you ought into Russian propaganda without doing any research.


How Russia’s False Flags Set The Stage For War In Ukraine

originally posted by: alldaylong
a reply to: Imhere

Putin isn’t close to Stalin or Mao or Hitler

Lock up or murder your political opponents. Check.

Lock up civilians for protesting. Check.

Rig elections. Check

Close circle of political cronies. Check

Commit acts of terror on foreign soil. Check

Illegal invasion of sovereign country. Check.

Yes, Putin has all the hallmarks of Hitler.

lol

You just listed things that many, many compare to Democrats lmao.

Check?

Even with Ukraine’s total casualties, Putin won’t be near Stalin, Mao or Hitler.

Therefore, not “Hitler” or is it like Genghis Khan? lol

My teacher is like Hitler’s sister!

originally posted by: Imhere

Putin isn’t close to Stalin or Mao or Hitler lol.

In the opening days leading up to WW2, Hitler wasn't close to the atrocity count of Hitler either. I wonder how the people of Germany might have felt if they had the benefit of foresight?

originally posted by: Imhere

If you say “well Putin would be” you just lost the argument.

Equally, if you say "he cant be", then you're an idiot.

originally posted by: Imhere

The body count in Ukraine doesn’t compare to Bush’s civilian body count in Iraq for example.

Nor Clinton’s on his illegal 78 days bombing of Serbia in 99’.

Im pretty sure that we've likewise vilified all of them here ad infinitum. So what comparison in this thread are you trying to draw?

originally posted by: Imhere

originally posted by: alldaylong
a reply to: Imhere

Putin isn’t close to Stalin or Mao or Hitler

Lock up or murder your political opponents. Check.

Lock up civilians for protesting. Check.

Rig elections. Check

Close circle of political cronies. Check

Commit acts of terror on foreign soil. Check

Illegal invasion of sovereign country. Check.

Yes, Putin has all the hallmarks of Hitler.

lol

You just listed things that many, many compare to Democrats lmao.

Check?

Even with Ukraine’s total casualties, Putin won’t be near Stalin, Mao or Hitler.

Therefore, not “Hitler” or is it like Genghis Khan? lol

My teacher is like Hitler’s sister!

You obviously don't know the real Putin.

Ask me if i am surprised ?

a reply to: alldaylong


No, he doesn't he doesn't even realize Putin used Hitlers playbook to take power.


The evidence is overwhelming that the apartment-house bombings in 1999 in Moscow, Buinaksk, and Volgodonsk, which provided a pretext for the second Chechen war and catapulted Putin into the presidency, were carried out by the Russian Federal Security Service (FSB). Yet, to this day, an indifferent world has made little attempt to grasp the significance of what was the greatest political provocation since the burning of the Reichstag.

The view about the bombings being organized and perpetrated by Russian state security services was originally put forward by investigative journalist David Satter and historians Yuri Felshtinsky and Vladimir Pribylovsky, in co-authorship with Alexander Litvinenko. It was later supported by a number of historians. Amy Knight, a historian of the KGB, wrote that it was "abundantly clear" that the FSB was responsible for carrying out the attacks and that Vladimir Putin's "guilt seems clear," since it was inconceivable that the FSB would have done so without the sanction of Putin, the agency's former director and by then Prime Minister of Russia.[16][211] In her book Putin's Kleptocracy, historian Karen Dawisha summarized evidence related to the bombings and concluded that "to blow up your own innocent and sleeping people in your capital city is an action almost unthinkable. Yet the evidence that the FSB was at least involved in planting a bomb in Ryazan is incontrovertible."[212] According to Timothy Snyder, "it seemed possible" that the perpetrators of the apartment bombings were FSB officers.[213] David Satter considered the bombings as a political provocation by the Russian secret services that was similar to the burning of the Reichstag.[214]

This view has been also supported by investigative journalists. In 2008, British journalist Edward Lucas concluded in his book The New Cold War: Putin's Russia and the Threat to the West that "The weight of evidence so far supports the grimmest interpretation: that the attacks were a ruthlessly planned stunt to create a climate of panic and fear in which Putin would quickly become the country's indisputable leader, as indeed he did."[80] In the September 2009 issue of GQ, veteran war correspondent Scott Anderson wrote about on Putin's role in the Russian apartment bombings, based in part on his interviews with Mikhail Trepashkin[215] The journal owner, Condé Nast, then took extreme measures[which?] to prevent an article by Anderson from appearing in the Russian media, both physically and in translation.

en.wikipedia.org...-amyknight2012-16

a reply to: PacificViking

Wow nice propaganda attempt. Poland never said they are going to attack / invade anyone. What IS occurring is Russia is trying to project Russian crimes on Poland to somehow justify their aggression - it wont work. Even the opening statement says this - from your link

Russian MP accuses Poland of planning to take Kaliningrad back from Moscow

Maria Butina escalates war of words between countries as former army chief claims Poland has a right to historic city

So its al coming from a Russian MP and not Poland. And since you forgot Russia and Nazi Germany were allies. They both invaded Poland and were buddies up until Germany invaded Russia.

No amount of Propaganda and deflections is going to change the fact Russia invaded Ukraine under false pretenses and will pay the price.

a reply to: PacificViking

more lies and propaganda. In case you and the others have not noticed people on this website can think logically and know this bs from Russia is a lie. Why do you think Putin stamped out Russian media so its only state controlled media the Russian people see?

Its right up there with Putin trying to claim everything in Ukraine is going to plan. It is up there withe the Russian MoD lying about no conscripts are being used to fight in Ukraine. Its up there with the Russian MoD claiming only 1000 russian soldiers have been killed.

and you guys fall for it hook, line and sinker.

originally posted by: PacificViking
This threat alone was enough under international law to legitimize Russia's attack on Ukraine

Uhmm no.. That is more Russian propaganda, or you are just making it up.

Just to help you out:

Article 51 of the UN charter

Article 51

Nothing in the present Charter shall impair the inherent right of individual or collective self-defence if an armed attack occurs against a Member of the United Nations, until the Security Council has taken measures necessary to maintain international peace and security. Measures taken by Members in the exercise of this right of self-defence shall be immediately reported to the Security Council and shall not in any way affect the authority and responsibility of the Security Council under the present Charter to take at any time such action as it deems necessary in order to maintain or restore international peace and security.

Nothing in the UN charter / international law allows what you / russian propaganda is claiming. The same holds true for the russian invasion of Ukrainian Crimea and the sham elections. The same holds true for the russian invasion of Ukrainian Donbas and the sham elections russia held there.

What else do you want to be wrong about.

a reply to: PacificViking

No Ukraine was occupied territory of the Soviet Union up until the USSR collapsed, at which point it regained its freedom and sovereignty. Maybe you need to learn about the Budapest memo and get back to us when you learn.

and you are on a roll with propaganda today arent you. Zelensky stated the Budapest memo was breached by Russia when they invaded and he referred to Ukraine thinking about obtaining nukes again to protect itsself from Russian aggression.You would know this if you spent any time educating yourself on what actually is occurring instead of repeating russian propaganda.

Russia violated the Budapest memo, invalidating it.
Zelensky said they would explore obtaining nukes to protect itself from Russian aggression AFTER Russia invaded.

Again, either get your facts right or stop posting. Its getting old seeing pages of nonsense of Russian talking points in an effort to bury facts that go against the Russian narrative.