Russia Ukraine Update Thread

a reply to: Freeborn

But it shows how things can escalate; do countries now bordering Belarus feel threatened by their stance and choose to support Ukraine?

Same line of thinking.

Once one domino falls etc. We had The Poland-Belarus border incident a few months ago with the migrant issue,

a reply to: alldaylong

Exactly.

And if Poland gets dragged into it I'm almost certain the UK will actively support them.....

History repeats itself.

Have we learnt nothing?

a reply to: Freeborn

That's not going to happen.

a reply to: Freeborn

For sure FB I do read your posts and know you are balanced on this current event and you are one of the most respected people on ATS for sure very balanced )far removed from radical nutters like myself lol) while also beautifully eloquent writings in the language of English that always are a treat to read

On his drivers well as far as I can tell the one great big mess up of his career has been losing Ukraine in was it 2014 to the west.

Ukraine was the jewel in the crown of the empire. Technologically super advanced, when the USSR led the space race bar the moon distraction, all the way to the disintegration of the USSR it was Ukraine supplying the tech. When you saw the AN-225 greatest plane to hit the skies to this day it was their Ukraine behind it. Industry to sport to science, Ukraine was the numero uno in the Soviet Union after Russia.

As one political commentator said years ago and can't remember the name............. "Russia without Ukraine is a regional power, Russia with Ukraine is a superpower" and I guess that's Putin's aim

a reply to: Nikola014

Let's hope not.

originally posted by: Xcathdra
a reply to: ufoorbhunter

Maybe the USSR / Russia should have thought about what would happen by them occupying sovereign countries. Had the USSR / Russia not dont that then maybe the sovereign countries would not have run to NATO for protection.

Watch finland and denmark they will panick and want to join NATO

originally posted by: Xcathdra
a reply to: ufoorbhunter

Maybe the USSR / Russia should have thought about what would happen by them occupying sovereign countries. Had the USSR / Russia not dont that then maybe the sovereign countries would not have run to NATO for protection.

Oh come on, Capitalists have been trying to destroy Russia / USSR ever since 1917. An amazing experiment where equality for all the people without making money off their backs was attempted but I guess that needed stamping out for the Capitalists. The destruction of Russia / USSR has been the numero uno intention of certain nations mine included for 104 years in any way possible

originally posted by: ufoorbhunter

originally posted by: vNex92
a reply to: Xcathdra

Everything NATO say was and is a lie. Just like successful the regime change in Libya was.

Spot on ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ and NATO has completely ignored the legitimate concerns of Moscow for 30 years all the time arming the neighbourhood and creeping up on Russia's borders. In many ways NATO forced Russia's hand here maybe that's the real conspiracy

Hey son, let me tell you about this DEI training you need to take.

Oh and you musn't use the word grandFATHER or housekeeping.

www.newsmax.com...

The University of Washington's "inclusive language guide" released in December labels words like "grandfather" and "housekeeping" as "problematic," calling them "racist," "sexist," "ageist," or "homophobic," Fox News reported Sunday.

--

Trust US - we know better. Now roll up your sleeve for Covid injection #4. This stuff really works.

a reply to: dragonridr

To be honest, I don't think the likes Of Denmark and probably even Finland have much to fear directly from Putin and Russia.
The danger they face is if it spirals out of control and they are somehow sucked in.

Despite thinking Putin has become slightly crazed I don't think he is a Hitler.
He doesn't want to control the whole of Europe.
He isn't consumed with a burning ideological or political belief in something.

He wants to regain land he views as 'lost' after the break up of the USSR.
He wants to regain Russia's 'former glory' and to be recognised, remembered and glorified as the Russian leader who achieved that.
He wants Russia to be acknowledged on the world stage as the equal of the USA etc.

a reply to: dragonridr

Finland and Sweden are in the process of joining NATO.

Watch finland and denmark they will panick and want to join NATO

a reply to: dragonridr

Denmark was one of the founders of NATO 4 april 1949, so no panick here!

a reply to: ufoorbhunter

and the USSR collapsed.

a reply to: Xcathdra

The time of american hegemony is over. Welcome to the new old world

originally posted by: Freeborn
a reply to: dragonridr

To be honest, I don't think the likes Of Denmark and probably even Finland have much to fear directly from Putin and Russia.
The danger they face is if it spirals out of control and they are somehow sucked in.

Despite thinking Putin has become slightly crazed I don't think he is a Hitler.
He doesn't want to control the whole of Europe.
He isn't consumed with a burning ideological or political belief in something.

He wants to regain land he views as 'lost' after the break up of the USSR.
He wants to regain Russia's 'former glory' and to be recognised, remembered and glorified as the Russian leader who achieved that.
He wants Russia to be acknowledged on the world stage as the equal of the USA etc.

more/less agree. so...will he try for more than Ukraine over time? Are the Baltics next?

a reply to: Nikola014

You'd be foolish to dismiss the US so casually.

Putin doesn't want to replace the USA....he wants parity with them.

Maybe slightly off topic but despite its faults I'd much, much prefer the USA as a friend than I would as an enemy!

a reply to: Freeborn

I'm not dismissing USA. I'm just saying that we no longer live in a unipolar world, dominated by a single country. And we can all agree that Russia was non-existent on the world stage following the collapse of USSR; but now they are back. Plus, I'm a strong believer that the United States is on demise.

a reply to: Nikola014

The USA is cutting itself up with the partisan nature of its political system and their incredibly insular outlook on things.
But they are a great people with huge resources....and they are resilient.

One of the biggest failings was how 'the west' reacted to the demise of the Soviet Union.
In the name of profit and greed they/we sat back and allowed the power vacuum to continue.....and nefarious forces/people stepped into breach.
Instead of assisting and working with Russia they engaged in profiteering.
Essentially Russia was on its knees and 'the west' sat back and did nothing instead of helping them.

As a result there was/is much resentment.
And Putin is feeding off this to further his own personal dreams of greatness.

The top senator overseeing U.S. intelligence agencies tells Axios he's deeply concerned cyberattacks launched by Russian President Vladimir Putin could morph into a broader war that draws in NATO nations — including the United States.

Why it matters: President Biden has ruled out American boots on the ground in Ukraine. But Senate Intelligence Committee Chairman Mark Warner (D-Va.), said in an interview Wednesday that Putin's actions during the next few days risk triggering NATO's Article 5 collective defense principle.

In a 2021 communique, NATO affirmed the alliance would weigh whether to trigger its Article 5 mutual defense pact over a cyberattack "on a case-by-case basis."
It said the response "need not be restricted to the cyber domain."

...

The bottom line: Warner said that if a Putin cyberattack harms a NATO member, he would "err on the side of a stronger response" from the U.S.

Sen. Mark Warner warns that Russia's cyberattacks on Ukraine could draw NATO states into broader war

Well, let's hope that does not happen.

a reply to: majesticgent

So cyber attack's are problem, flying bullets and bombs are not... How can Ukraine join NATO after this?

originally posted by: saadad
a reply to: majesticgent

So cyber attack's are problem, flying bullets and bombs are not...

Yeah, bullets and bombs are a huge problem, but if NATO gets involved there will be a lot more than just bullets and bombs flying that can be assured.