Your Money Is No Good Here: How Our Upside Down Flag Caused Local Business Owner to Turn Us Away!

My neighbor flies his flag upside down and has generally gotten positive comments. He has gotten two negative comments, both from Obama supporters.
We are in Sierra Vista, AZ.

reply to post by intrepid


Since when does being polite to a participant in your thread translate into implicit agreement about his or her position?

FissionSurplus
reply to post by intrepid

 

Since when does being polite to a participant in your thread translate into implicit agreement about his or her position?

I've had several other assumptions made about me in this thread.

Apparently I come off as a TEA Partier and a Republican.

Oh, and I'm crazy and possibly dangerous.

FissionSurplus

catfishjoe
Pussification of America. Someone always gets butthurt. You have your beliefs....he has his. Keep your money and keep on a keeping. Ain't no thing but a chinken Wang.

Love it, catfish! You got it right. Somebody is always crying because they're butthurt over something somebody else says or believes.

I have one of those flags, folded nicely in a triangle, that was presented to me at a funeral, taken from a flag draped coffin and presented to me. I hope not to receive any more like that, but chances are, since we are all about war, it may just happen again. I keep it in a case and am holding it for my daughter.

Know what I cry about? When I'm at a social gathering in which they sing the national anthem. I just cannot put my hand over my heart anymore. I see the flag and I cry over what it has come to represent....and how far we as a country have fallen. How ignorant the citizens are now of our heritage, and the brave men and women who fought to create, and then protect, this nation. We have gotten spoiled, flaccid, fat, and stupid.

My heart cries bitter tears seeing our devolution into idiocracy. How easily we are fooled, led astray, and led into crowded cattle pens, while we're told that we're free. Our rights are whittled away, one at a time, and people say that it's for the "good of the country", so that we can be "safe".

Our last vestige of freedom is free speech, and freedom of expression. The OP sees her country as in distress, and many agree. I find that the people who are quoting how to handle the American flag, and the various little rules regarding its use, have no problem with our constitution being not followed as it was written. Which is more important? A rectangle of cloth, or the constitution and the bill of rights? If the constitution is being ignored, I think it's fair game to use the flag in such a way as to indicate distress over that fact.

Just my own opinion, however. If you're butthurt over it, I'll donate some cheese for your whine-fest.

Yeah!!! Thats it. You, your daughter and your inner circle. That's all that matters. Sorry for your loss. It wasn't for nothing tho. Don't let nobody.......NOBODY....take that from you. God bless you, your lost one and your amazing family. Shine like sunshine baby. Make the haters hate and the lovers love. God bless mama!!

reply to post by Wrabbit2000


I agree 100% with you Wrabbit. The guy was obviously ignorant. Just take your business somewhere else and spread the word. You have freedom of speech. Tell your friends and others about how dumb this person is and not to do business with them. It goes both ways. Matter of fact if you wanted to protest outside his business that's your right too. Anyhow good luck just go find another lot.

daryllyn
Oh, and I'm crazy and possibly dangerous.

I never said that. And you're right. I DID make assumptions. However reading the OP it seemed clear to me that this was a car dude that didn't want to work with you because you guys "seem" to be anti-Obama. Maybe he made the same assumption.

intrepid

daryllyn
Oh, and I'm crazy and possibly dangerous.

I never said that. And you're right. I DID make assumptions. However reading the OP it seemed clear to me that this was a car dude that didn't want to work with you because you guys "seem" to be anti-Obama. Maybe he made the same assumption.

It wasn't you who made that assumption, or at least you didn't say so, if you did

I was referring to several other thread participants with the TEA party, Republican and crazy/dangerous remarks.

reply to post by daryllyn


He can do whatever he wants. It's his right just like yours to fly the flag upside down. I amazes me how people get upset because someone else doesn't believe what you do. Just deal with it.

fenson76
reply to post by daryllyn

 

He can do whatever he wants. It's his right just like yours to fly the flag upside down. I amazes me how people get upset because someone else doesn't believe what you do. Just deal with it.

Many of you seem to be under the impression that I'm extremely hurt/upset/sad about Car Dude's decision, or that I'm still dying to buy a car off the guy.

Let me clear that up for you.

I've never encountered anything like that outside of the internet and I was genuinely confused and totally caught off guard by his reaction, and not sad/butthurt/upset/distraught/angry/still wanting to buy a car from him, as many of you are assuming.

Again with the assumptions. You know what they say about assuming, right?

I may be wrong, but I don't think the ones who lost their lives in combat or POW's would like to see the flag flying upside down on american soil for symbology. Like, my uncle AG who lost his life in the Bataan Death March and his remains are still there somewhere. My grandmother had a stroke the day she received the telegram and never believed he was dead because there was never a body returned. I think we disrespect the old guard by flying disrespect in their face.

daryllyn
I'm usually not one to post threads, but, I thought you guys might be interested in what happened to us today, and I'd like your thoughts.

Remember Homer's thread about the upside down flags? I was a participant in that thread. You have to glance at the thread if you haven't seen it yet.

It should also be noted that Kawrider9 made a thread recanting the story about his upside down flag and the complaints it received, which eventually ended up attracting the media.

I read Homer's thread the day it was posted and told my other half about it, and within about 15 minutes we, too, had our distress flag flying. In addition to the flag, there would also later be a sign at the front of the property saying 'Impeach Obama!' in the first line, followed by 'Gov't, get to work!' in the second. Perched atop the sign you would see a small Gadsden flag (don't tread on me, for the unfamiliar).

I had little to do with our part in this. I told him about Homer's thread, got into the shower, and came out to see a distress flag.. followed by the sign I mentioned, a short while later. At homer's request, I even took a picture and posted it in a reply to his thread, which can also be seen below.

In my estimation, it isn't hard to see that this country has serious problems, so in general, I agree with, and don't really mind the statement of the flag or the sign, especially since the government was shut down, and the 'threat' of default was looming at the time. For years I have been worried about our rights, the general state of things and the direction this nation is heading. I also am not an Obama fan. So. I'm fine with it and apart from lots of extra honking coming from the highway, we haven't really had anyone say anything about it.

Short background to today's situation:

Prior to the flag flipping, my other half went to a car lot in a nearby, very....VERY small, town. The guy agreed to work out a deal with us on trading a truck and some cash for one of his vehicles. He was supposed to come by and look at the truck and never showed up. Little did we know at the time, the political statement adorning our property, that sits on the same highway Mr. Small Town Car Lot Guy takes to his day job everyday, was the reason he never showed up, and the reason for his bizarre reaction, that would come later.

Fast forward to earlier this evening:

We had some time to kill on our way to parent/teacher conferences, the car lot was on the way, so we stopped in. I WISH I would have gotten out of the car because, the conversation was so unexpected. My head was pounding, it was cold, and not knowing the bizarre reaction that would come from this guy, I stayed in the car, so I only overheard parts of the exchange between the car dude and my other half.

Remember that these two were totally cool to each other, and ready to make a deal, just a few weeks ago.

My other half approaches the guy, and greets him. The very second that he mentioned the truck, the guy got weird, as if it clicked in his mind who he was talking to in that moment.

Here's the exchange:

Car Dude: "I'm not going to be able to work with you."

Other half: "What do you mean? I thought you wanted to trade my truck and some cash for one of your vehicles?"

Car Dude: "I saw all that Tea party # and that upside down flag at your place."

Other half: "Yeah? And?"

Car Dude: "I just can't condone that. I won't do business with you. Your money isn't good here, and neither is your truck."

Other half: "What? The distress flag? Do you even know what it represents?"

Car Dude: "No, I don't, and I really don't care. I can't condone that."

(For the record, we are not Tea Party. People tend to forget that the Gadsden was only adopted by the Tea Party, and that its actually a historical American flag dating back to 1775.)

Stunned, my other half gets back in the car and we drive away thinking... what on earth just happened here?

Was the guy suffering from cognitive dissonance?
Is he a died hard Obama lover?
Is he opposed to our first amendment right to freely express ourselves?
Why would our assumed political stance have anything at all to do with selling us a car?

I'm not sure what to make of it. Obviously the statement struck a nerve with him to the point he was willing to lose business over it. He completely rejected the explanation of the distress flag.. and wouldn't even hear a word of it. I'm bothered by it because I don't understand his logic or his reaction.

So what gives? What on earth went on here?

What say you, ATS?

When your other half said, "Do you know what it represents?" And the man said, "No, and I really don't care. I can't condone that." That burned me up, that is ignorance to the definition. He's saying he can't condone something he doesn't even know anything about? Wow, that's the kind of blind action, if escalated in a large group of people like him, that can lead to vigilante persecution. I mean seriously, how closed minded can people get?

MOMof3
I may be wrong, but I don't think the ones who lost their lives in combat or POW's would like to see the flag flying upside down on american soil for symbology. Like, my uncle AG who lost his life in the Bataan Death March and his remains are still there somewhere. My grandmother had a stroke the day she received the telegram and never believed he was dead because there was never a body returned. I think we disrespect the old guard by flying disrespect in their face.

How are we being disrespectful?
This is NOT being disrespectful, I'm the LAST one to do that to my Flag, as I am a veteran myself.

MOMof3
I may be wrong, but I don't think the ones who lost their lives in combat or POW's would like to see the flag flying upside down on american soil for symbology. Like, my uncle AG who lost his life in the Bataan Death March and his remains are still there somewhere. My grandmother had a stroke the day she received the telegram and never believed he was dead because there was never a body returned. I think we disrespect the old guard by flying disrespect in their face.

If an American citizen truly feels like they (or event he country) is in real distress, is it not their RIGHT, neigh, their duty, to fly the flag in distress mode to inform all that see that they (or the country) truly is in distress. The fact that you, or anyone else does not agree with that usage of the flag does not nullify their honest feelings in the matter, now does it?

I believe this is the case here. The OP truly believes the country to be in a state of distress, real distress, not symbolic distress. If they truly believe that, it justifies their action.

reply to post by MOMof3


The way you feel about how I'm using my right to express myself, isn't relevant to me.

I won't censor myself to cater to someone else's feelings that are completely unrelated to the meaning, symbolism and intention behind said expression.

Only you can decide to let something offend you.

reply to post by MOMof3


I fought for this flag and this nation and I approve of what the OP has done.

reply to post by HomerinNC


Exactly, Homer! The flag is a symbol itself. How is flying it upside down to represent a country in distress being disrespectful? As usual, people fuss over small details that one person does, and lets what the government is doing under the cover of the flag go right over their heads. The government disrespects veterans and those in the military every single fricking day. But I suppose that's okay. SHM....

If somebody chose not to do business with you, it would be his right...at least that would be the case if we were in a free marketplace, which I THINK we still are.

Don't take it too personally, you tried to explain and he didn't want to communicate, no biggie. Just move on and don't let it ruin your day.

reply to post by daryllyn

sadly this is a case of "these people think differently, and even though i don't know what an upside-down flag means, i do know to stay away from them".

classic case of brainwashing.

reply to post by Indigo5


This is ATS, so here we go...

I believe that the flag is used as a tool to turn the heads and hearts of the masses and elicit a group think peer pressure driven squelching of the few dissenters. The flag is used as such because, unlike the Constitution and the myriad of values the United States was built upon, the flag's symbology is purely nationalistic and has little to no tangible, unchanging ideals attached to it. The United States government can be as obtrusive, overbearing, and downright distastefull as it wishes to be and can demand supplication from its citizens, all while still flying the same flag, unchanged in appearance or symbol.

It's the reason why I don't make my kids say the pledge of allegiance before school... That's an indoctrination they do not need. I don't agree with pledging allegiance to a symbol of something because that symbology is far too easy to change, whereas the tangible... the Constitution, is not. The political machine and the powers that be can only strip rights and freedoms away if they have something else to point at to keep the People nationalistic. They indoctrinate society to turn eyes towards the red, white, and blue because physically it does not change... it is a constant familiar in a nation where the issues it supposedly represents are everchanging. It exists in its present state to demonstrate that, no matter how close to being the "bad guys" the US gets, no matter how many of our traditional morals the US violates, and no matter how many of the principles the country was built on get trod upon, the symbolism is there and along with it is peer pressure to constantly start waving the damn thing back and forth.

So what happens? As soon as the water starts getting too warm, some event, conflict, or disaster occurs and immediately the flag is waved rapidly back and forth and like lemmings Americans go into patriotic mode. I'm sorry, but celebrating the flag doesn't equal patriotism any more than wearing a crucifix equals Christianity or rooting for the Sooners equals being an OU alum. Equally speaking you can be a rabid Patriot, a devout Christian, and a graduate from OU with honors and never once celebrate the US flag, wear a crucifix, or give a flip about a Sooner game.

Like I said before, I seriously hope and pray that all the brave men and women from our military who have fought and died over the years offered their lives for something more concrete than some colord fabric sewed together. I say that because I believe they fought for something that was a hell of a lot more free with a much deeper respect for liberty than the USA circa 2013, and last I checked the only thing that flag represents right now, today, is America in the present day.

reply to post by burdman30ott6


Good, your post reminded me of this pledge of allegiance parody, its just so true.