Your Money Is No Good Here: How Our Upside Down Flag Caused Local Business Owner to Turn Us Away!

Here's a recent example of someone having her property seized for no good reason. I'll bet she is in distress, so how long will it be until more governmental bodies follow this example.

Seattle seizes elderly woman's parking lot to turn it into -- a parking lot

The City Council voted Monday to use its power of eminent domain to acquire the lot owned by Spokane resident Myrtle Woldson, who has repeatedly turned down offers to purchase the property

Myrtle Woldson

[She] refuses to lease space to the city while it tries to make up for lost parking during the tunnel dig. So instead, the city council will attempt to condemn the property and take it over

Krakatoa
Here's a recent example of someone having her property seized for no good reason. I'll bet she is in distress, so how long will it be until more governmental bodies follow this example.

Seattle seizes elderly woman's parking lot to turn it into -- a parking lot

The City Council voted Monday to use its power of eminent domain to acquire the lot owned by Spokane resident Myrtle Woldson, who has repeatedly turned down offers to purchase the property

Myrtle Woldson

[She] refuses to lease space to the city while it tries to make up for lost parking during the tunnel dig. So instead, the city council will attempt to condemn the property and take it over

Clearly a violation of the Constitution.

The Fifth Amendment of the U.S. Constitution provides, "No person shall be held to answer for a capital, or otherwise infamous crime, unless on a presentment or indictment of a grand jury, except in cases arising in the land or naval forces, or in the militia, when in actual service in time of war or public danger; nor shall any person be subject for the same offense to be twice put in jeopardy of life or limb; nor shall be compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against himself, nor be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor shall private property be taken for public use, without just compensation."

From usflag.org/flagetiquette:


"Flag Etiquette

STANDARDS of RESPECT
The Flag Code, which formalizes and unifies the traditional ways in which we give respect to the flag, also contains specific instructions on how the flag is not to be used. They are:

The flag should never be dipped to any person or thing. IT IS FLOWN UPSIDE DOWN ONLY AS A DISTRESS SIGNAL.
The flag should not be used as a drapery, or for covering a speakers desk, draping a platform, or for any decoration in general. Bunting of blue, white and red stripes is available for these purposes. The blue stripe of the bunting should be on the top.
The flag should never be used for any advertising purpose. It should not be embroidered, printed or otherwise impressed on such articles as cushions, handkerchiefs, napkins, boxes, or anything intended to be discarded after temporary use. Advertising signs should not be attached to the staff or halyard
The flag should not be used as part of a costume or athletic uniform, except that a flag patch may be used on the uniform of military personnel, fireman, policeman and members of patriotic organizations.
The flag should never have placed on it, or attached to it, any mark, insignia, letter, word, number, figure, or drawing of any kind.
The flag should never be used as a receptacle for receiving, holding, carrying, or delivering anything.
When the flag is lowered, no part of it should touch the ground or any other object; it should be received by waiting hands and arms. To store the flag it should be folded neatly and ceremoniously.

The flag should be cleaned and mended when necessary.

When a flag is so worn it is no longer fit to serve as a symbol of our country, it should be destroyed by burning in a dignified manner."



My husband was in the army in 1971 to 1973. He says it should not be flown symbolically by citizens.

FissionSurplus
reply to post by dlbott

 

Thank you for your service. Having said that, I totally disagree with you. If the flag doesn't represent the government of the United States, then they should stop flying it at all government installations. Besides, how do you know they're not in actual distress? Have you looked at the economy lately?

*Puts on fire resistant suit*....All wars fought after World War II were pre-emptive strike wars that were fought for ridiculous ideological purposes, or for the purpose of protecting private economic interests. Were they fought for the protection of the American people, which the flag supposedly represents? My point is, the flag has been prostituted and misused since the 1950s. Turning it upside down is probably the most authentic use of this symbol in many decades.

You may fire when ready, Mr. Gridley.

You are still missing the point, we are the flag, not the government. It saddens me that Americans don't get it. So many around the world see it for what it is, a symbol of the people who stand for freedom and liberty, a people that despite the failings of their government always hold fast and true. A people who literally have saved the world with their blood and sweat on more than one occasion.

You see we are the flag, it does not represent the government. It represents us, from every peasant farmer who left his farm to go fight to rosey the riveter to every person born here. It is not the government, it is us.

When you are in other countries and they see our flag they see us the people not the government. Sure our enemies see the government but not the people around the world. When you talk to them they see us, the people who give so much to help the rest of the world. No, they see what we should see, us the people.

It says we the people for a reason. No it is not perfect for me and mine but it is not so bad I disrespect my fellow Americans. No you guys missed it all together, the flag is not government, it is me and you.

The Bot

reply to post by daryllyn


Sorry you had to go through that. It's not unusual in this climate of division. During the election and other debates many store owners posted signs about Obama voters/supporters not being welcome. There were threads on ATS about the same.

I think politics should be kept out of business. The car dealer could have at least engaged in a rational discussion if he was incapable of biting his lip.

Also...If the flag had simply been turned upside-down...vs. the "Impeach Obama" sign, then that might have invited more discussion, questions. It's better to have the opportunity to explain what you feel is wrong with Government than to broadcast such an unequivocal, uncompromising certainty before the question is asked.

As for me? I have kids and am careful not to sport signs, bumper stickers etc. There are just too many wacko's you don't see coming in this divided and vitriolic political climate.

reply to post by dlbott


I do respect your opinion, and in many ways agree with it. But this country is in distress, would you not agree with that?

Protests aren't working. Elections aren't either. I see this as a way to let people know that we, as a people are in trouble. I see it as a form of waking people up to the trouble we are in.

I think it would be great if we could get all private people who display the flag on their homes or wherever to fly the flag upside down for a week. That might get the medias attention and make those who cannot think for themselves, maybe just start using that grey matter between their ears.

We are in trouble. No ands, if's or but's.

reply to post by daryllyn


Stay strong and continue to fight for what you believe. An idea can overcome anything with enough effort. I leave you with a quote which is in my sig and comes from an old family saying: "To the brave and faithful man, nothing is impossible."

daryllyn
People tend to forget that the Gadsden was only adopted by the Tea Party, and that its actually a historical American flag dating back to 1775.

It is amazing how ridiculously ignorant some people are to that fact. I don't know if it's a lack of perspective or an absence of historical knowledge, but there are a lot of folks out there who neither understand the Gadsden flag nor seemingly care to break away from their safety net of automatically associating it with the TEA Party. (This is coming from a person who IS a member of that political movement, by the way.)

At the end of the day, if I was you, I'd just inform the dude that his business isn't good enough for your hard earned money and look elsewhere for a vehicle. Turn his ridiculousness into a damage to his own business rather than accepting it as a slight on you and your husband.

reply to post by daryllyn


It conflicted with the ideological dogma that Obama slips to the masses through covert cognitive adhesion. More or less what you may have witnessed, could be explained in a nut shell by saying: Obama superimposes his beliefs and his ideologies onto some people's own subconscious through a hypnotic speech pattern known as 'Neuro-Liguistic Programming.' At face value some people listen for an hour and feel happy for unexplained reasons and commit to an unseen bond they're experiencing, latching to Obama in a positive way. Others, like my own mother, experience physically nausea and illness when the person utilizing NLP in their speech are speaking, but the listener's conscious/subconscious collective are more closely tied.

What happens next is what you may have seen: The conflicting of the person's true beliefs, their NLP 'suedo-beliefs', and someone else's beliefs being exerted in a way that subconsciously grabs their attention. What probably occurred is that the car salesman commuted past your home while perhaps experiencing "highway hypnosis" without consciously noticing your flag(s) and sign, but his subconscious picked up on it. Then, perhaps the next day, he drove past with an aching feeling of internal conflict and consciously noticed your flag(s) and sign. When these sorts of patterns occur naturally, we're genetically programmed to attach our subconscious feelings to whatever we're noticing or experiencing consciously.

This car salesman is probably a veteran, or is family of one, and even though he admits he doesn't understand the distress aspect of the inverted flag, in HIS mind, it's an insult to those who served and the land the flag represents.

It is his choice as to with whom he does business, even if he is misinformed about the whole distress issue.

As I posted in the "Homer" thread, it depends on the perspective of the individual as to whether or not our country is in distress. For some everything is just fine as they may have good healthcare and decent income, and to those who don't, well, the country is broken.

So, clearly there will always be a divided view of those who protest the state of the union versus the true state of the union.

reply to post by burdman30ott6


In an effort to inform:

Wikipedia: Gadsden flag

The Gadsden flag is a historical American flag with a yellow field depicting a rattlesnake coiled and ready to strike. Positioned below the rattlesnake are the words "Dont tread on me". The flag is named after American general and statesman Christopher Gadsden, who designed it in 1775 during the American revolution. It was also used by the Continental Marines as an early motto flag, along with the Moultrie Flag.

Why the snake you make then ask?

The timber rattlesnake and eastern diamondback rattlesnake both populate the geographical areas of the original thirteen colonies. Their use as a symbol of the American colonies can be traced back to the publications of Benjamin Franklin. In 1751, he made the first reference to the rattlesnake in a satirical commentary published in his Pennsylvania Gazette. It had been the policy of Britain to send convicted criminals to America, so Franklin suggested that they thank the British by sending rattlesnakes to England.

"Deny Ignorance"

AlienScience

whywhynot
reply to post by AlienScience

 

I wouldn't do business with the KKK, I wouldn't do business with the black panthers...and for a similar reason, I wouldn't do business with you or your husband once I saw the flag and those signs.

A very typical Leftist argument, I mean really, comparing the KKK and the Black Panthers to a persons right to express their opinion without harming or endangering anyone. Rules for radicals anyone?

They can express their opinion, just like the KKK and the Black Panthers can...but their are still consequences for your actions. And who exactly is the radical...the salesman that wishes not to associate with someone who is putting on display some very radical and crazy beliefs...or the people putting those radical and crazy beliefs on display?

And are you aware you are guilty of the exact thing you are accusing me of?

So if you personally don't agree with their beliefs, they become "crazy" and "radical". How convenient for you. Do you always present your opinions as facts?

For all those who are against those people who are flying our nations flag upside down I have something to say.

My fathers time was one where people were burning flags and spitting on soldiers. He raised me better than all that.. He was a soldier.

That said, I used to be a Republican. Bush and his illegal policies and wars put a final death knell on me ever supporting the republican party again...

When Obama came around I was hopeful that his promises may come to fruition... hopefull that the wars that were wrong would end, hopeful that all this Patriot Act business would be put to an end... etc etc.

I did vote for Obama the first time... (sorry...but that is true) Yet now... I am finding my mother was right (she was quite against Obama from the git go! ) Obama did not abolish the patriot act he gave more rights to the government. Obama did not stop illegal wars he gave us involvement in more. Obama not only gave us more involvement in wars but he and all of congress started lying and giving aid to our enemies...

On top of that they just recently wiped their butts with the constitution my forefathers fought for when they made it a law that we have to purchase a product we cannot use, and if we do not make this purchase they will fine us and if we dont pay that they can put liens on our property...

On top of that they bailed out businesses that did not have enough good business sense to do a good business in the first place and destroyed us all economically in the process...

There is more... but that is enough to say there are so many problems in America and with our politicians these days that I am for none of them...

And no, the "Tea Party" May have been decent before it was taken over the the GOP, who are no better than Obama... I am NOT a tea partier... in other words...

This country is so screwed its unreal... and you people think its all going to be ok? It doesnt matter who the hell we vote for they are all in this together and not one of them has freedom and Americans at heart!

I say fly the flag upside down... because until we get rid of every single person right now who is an elected official we will never dig out of the hole we find ourselves in and we will never see freedom again!

reply to post by daryllyn


Many veterans have close friends that were killed and many of us associate disrespect of our flag as a disrespect of our fallen comrades. I get the "Distressed Flag" comment, but rightly or wrongly you were asking for it. You are lucky it wasn't worse. Our flag is draped over coffins and presented to the loved ones of the fallen at the funeral. Think of someone else when you exercise your freedoms that someone else died for.

reply to post by dlbott


The flag doesn't represent the people anymore. It used to stand for something... not anymore. You cant deny the flag has been used in wars of aggression, used to annex and rob smaller countries of their sovereignty, (financial and otherwise) Used to trump that 'freedom' word but at night spies on every single American and American allies overseas. Openly lies to us everyday, and when confronted with a lie, it denies that it has lied about lying. could go on and on...

This flag has been used in so many nasty ways, there is nothing meaningful about it anymore. When people do see it, they don't see the American people, they see what the American people have allowed their government to do... and keep doing.

With all due respect, I would like to address your comment as individual points below...

MrFGB
reply to post by daryllyn

 

Many veterans have close friends that were killed and many of us associate disrespect of our flag as a disrespect of our fallen comrades. I get the "Distressed Flag" comment, but rightly or wrongly you were asking for it. You are lucky it wasn't worse. Our flag is draped over coffins and presented to the loved ones of the fallen at the funeral. Think of someone else when you exercise your freedoms that someone else died for.

You said, "You are lucky it wasn't worse"

So now freedom of expression is justification for violence in your mind?

You said, "Our flag is draped over coffins and presented to the loved ones of the fallen at the funeral."

Yes, OUR flag....Americans, ALL of us....including the OP here. Whether id dons a fallen soldiers casket is irrelevant IMO (a flag which I personally hanging in my house in memory of my father BTW).

You said, "Think of someone else when you exercise your freedoms that someone else died for."

So, because someone (many) brave and respected people died in order for the OP to have that freedom of speech, you are advocating curtailing her freedom of speech? Isn't that against all that they themselves fought and died for, that FREEDOM OF SPEECH. Freedom of speech protects the speech you do not agree with, regardless of it's content (within the framework of the law that is).

Did I get your position correct here?

HomerinNC
reply to post by NuclearPaul

 

Dont think I've ever seen a flag flown by the military upside down

He wasn't saying "upside down" he was saying the military fly it reversed (with the stripes on the right)

I have seen this a number of times in recent years. The first time I thought it was very strange. What I was told, is that this is done by the military during a time of conflict, because it represents the way a physical flag would look when carried into battle. (If you try to picture it, I think you'll get what I mean.)

MOMof3
My husband was in the army in 1971 to 1973. He says it should not be flown symbolically by citizens.

Thank your husband for his service. I'm not sure the citizens flying the flag upside down are doing it symbolically anymore, to be honest. I think there is a very real, very tangible distress and that upside down flag is a clear signal that should be a call to arms directed at the population.

MrFGB
Many veterans have close friends that were killed and many of us associate disrespect of our flag as a disrespect of our fallen comrades. I get the "Distressed Flag" comment, but rightly or wrongly you were asking for it. You are lucky it wasn't worse. Our flag is draped over coffins and presented to the loved ones of the fallen at the funeral. Think of someone else when you exercise your freedoms that someone else died for.

Did those veterans fight for the flag and the symbolic iconography of the USA or for the Constitution and the clearly stated rights and ideals heralded within it's words? I'd like to think my ancestors were fighting for something a bit more tangible than strips of brightly colored cloth sewn together. This isn't the board game Risk where the only difference between the participants is what color their country represents... and if it is then we are damned fools for fighting those wars over little more than nationalistic bullcrap.

No disrespect of your service intended whatsoever, just looking for a bit of clarification on the point. There are a lot of things I'd fight for, a flag (or for that matter any politician's pride) is not among them.

reply to post by burdman30ott6


200 hundred years later:

Oh, say can you see by the dawn's early light
What so proudly we hailed at the twilight's last gleaming?
Whose broad stripes and bright stars thru the perilous fight,
O'er the ramparts we watched were so gallantly streaming?
And the rocket's red glare, the bombs bursting in air,
Gave proof through the night that our flag was still there.
Oh, say does that star-spangled banner yet wave
O'er the land of the free and the home of the brave?

On the shore, dimly seen through the mists of the deep,
Where the foe's haughty host in dread silence reposes,
What is that which the breeze, o'er the towering steep,
As it fitfully blows, half conceals, half discloses?
Now it catches the gleam of the morning's first beam,
In full glory reflected now shines in the stream:
'Tis the star-spangled banner! Oh long may it wave
O'er the land of the free and the home of the brave!

And where is that band who so vauntingly swore
That the havoc of war and the battle's confusion,
A home and a country should leave us no more!
Their blood has washed out their foul footsteps' pollution.
No refuge could save the hireling and slave
From the terror of flight, or the gloom of the grave:
And the star-spangled banner in triumph doth wave
O'er the land of the free and the home of the brave!

Oh! thus be it ever, when freemen shall stand
Between their loved home and the war's desolation!
Blest with victory and peace, may the heav'n rescued land
Praise the Power that hath made and preserved us a nation.
Then conquer we must, when our cause it is just,
And this be our motto: "In God is our trust."
And the star-spangled banner in triumph shall wave
O'er the land of the free and the home of the brave!

www.usa-flag-site.org...

Seems damn important in American society to me.