Russel Brand: The time for Revolution is now.

reply to post by benrl


What a legend! I love Russell Brand. He sometimes makes me feel a little un-easy as he is so upfront, I always feel like he's gonna just totally lose the plot and embarrass himself - but yet he never does. He's always got a bloody good argument and definitely got the right mentality to bring it forward. I have a similar way about me - just a little less of the Captain Jack Sparrow.

I'd imagine such a mind has probably been built upon by this very site.

(if you're ever on here Mr Brand shout me up, we'll have a jeffry and talk).

JakiusFogg :

He wants to live in the utopian society where everyone is equal, and where the rich pay to support the poor.

What a strange mindset you have, What utopia are you imagining Brand stated? I don't think Brand used the term once in the whole interview, so why are you presuming that he wants a utopia? I would think (and I am presuming here) he wants a fair and equitable system that works for everyone? He wants a system that doesn't cut off a whole swathe of the population simply because it is economical to do so. He doesn't want to participate in a system that exploits the disadvantaged and uses them as scapegoats for society's ills.

How do you think the rich got rich in the first place, by being fair and equitable? By being accommodating and providing employment out of the goodness of their hearts? Do you think the rich created their wealth out of magic or even thin air? There are a few exceptions, but most are utterly bereft of compassion for the welfare of their fellow man.

Now I have no problem if that is what they are like, my problem is that they try to con society into believing that they do care...when they obviously don't, they exploit desperation. So the point is, if you don't care for the welfare of your fellow man, he won't care for yours, and if that's the case, they will take your comfort from you. Selfishness is a loathsome trait in our species, it's the fault line along which tit-for-tat conflicts occur.

The poor and the disadvantaged are not going to allow themselves to starve. If you don't help them they won't stay law-abiding for very long, and who can blame them? The more poor and disadvantaged society creates the less stable it becomes, because its feeding its own destruction. What if we were all selfish, do you think we would be able to create a society? I tell now, we wouldn't, we'd be too busy being selfish to come to agreement. The selfish pretty much doom themselves.

Americans make me laugh, they have an obsessive hate for socialism, yet their whole society is built on it. You can't create a society without socialism. Socialism is about coming together to agree on how to live side by side with each other. Socialism is about principles and has nothing at all to do with systems, but foundations of society. Capitalism is a system running on the foundation of socialism, it is a system that can't exist or function without it. The first tenet of America's constitution is socialistic...'that all men are created equal'...'that they have a right to pursue life, liberty, and happiness'. You can't get more socialistic than that. If you live and participate in a society, you are a practising socialist.

The real problem lies in the systems you use to express your society's social principles, for instance, capitalism is a selfish and exploitative system, whereas communism is a totalitarian one, both create poverty as they function as a layer on top of socialistic principles of society. The idea of socialism is our species' saving grace. Thomas Paine stated that '...society is a blessing...', and he is utterly right. Man has the wit and intelligence to create any society he wants, including an utopia, he just needs to exercise the will to do so for the benefit of all.

Zen24
reply to post by Serdgiam

 

How do we fix them? Wipe the entire government and money system clean. Go to a bartering system, selling goods for goods/ services for goods/ services for services. Set up a completely new small small small government, whose only function is to keep the peace. Wipe away all big business and corporations, even walmarts. Open up local business to replace franchises, and require 5 hours per week of work for all able. Work would be directed locally, mainly for construction and farming. This is off the top of my head. If we all put our minds together we could create a think tank, and solve any problem. Constructive criticism, instead of meaningless criticism. Without money scientists would get the materials they needed without having to get million dollar grants, and new discoveries that stop fat cats from making major profits wouldn't be destroyed and suppressed. Singers would sing, painters would paint, etc. It would be a golden age of innovation with nothing to hold it back. I know this concept has holes in it, but help me point them out and find a solution.

I'm stopping at this point in the thread so I can comment on your post Zen. I was going to wait to give my reply, but your post got to me!

WE must be able to come up with a cohesive plan of action! Revolution does not necessarily have to mean violent revolt! We can have a very peaceful revolution if it's done correctly. The key is to communicate collectively, come up with a blueprint, delegate according to skill sets and execute!! While pitch forks and torches were all the rage in the Dark Ages, I tend to believe that we have evolved past such barbarism. Take Russel for example, if he can render Paxman speechless by merely stating the "truth" intelligently, calmly and affectionately (he totally trolled him as my son would say), then why can't we follow suit?!

The members here at ATS alone are such a varied group of individuals from all around the world. What skills do we each have that could lend to a peaceful revolution? To the goal of the whole... yes it rhymes, but not intentionally. We all agree that the way things are now, well it's just not working. The question isn't exactly what will work, we'll figure that out, but we can do nothing until we've upset the apple cart! HOW do we do that? Well, step one is moving outside our comfort zone a little. While we still have access to the internet we should be utilizing it's capability to bring us together from the four corners of the world. Who among us has leadership & organizational skills? Who has "event planning" skills? Who can create attention grabbing/keeping websites? Who can make compelling videos? Who is willing to make a spectacle of themselves?

We have all the skills necessary to make it happen. Look what happened from one man deciding to make a stand, to take one small action to have his thoughts and opinion heard:

1st this; HomerinNC

Then this; KawRider9

It's not impossible, we just have to take the first step even if we can't see the whole staircase!

AutOmatIc
reply to post by Zen24

 

...rubbish we don't want to be happy we want to be famous! TAKE HIS BRAIN!

people want to be famous because they think it'll make them happy. Searching for happiness outside the self is like trying to reach the horizon where the sky and ground meet. Once you reach where you thought it'd be, it's well.......you get the point, onwards to the next one

I like his rap. I know this may be kind of unjust to say, but will he give up his money and fame and career and lead the charge?

reply to post by buster2010


Yeah, I think you're right that voting at the local level definitely has real effects on people's lives. Still, Brand being out there trying to use his fame to make a difference is probably more important than him voting. And him not voting certainly doesn't disqualify him from commenting.

That said, our democratic institutions around the world have the framework for an egalitarian socialist state that he wants. And they can be mixed with capitalist incentives until people are ready to work for humanity instead of greed.

Really the main thing Brand doesn't like is the current ruling class. And that is one thing most everyone who's not in that class can agree on. We just need to find people who could be trusted to be the ruling class. And I think people on both sides need to agree that capitalism works for somethings and socialism works for somethings.

How many of you realize that the Nazis helped their little rise to power in Germany along by firing up the youth?

How many of you realize that one of the main ways they did this was by fueling the fire for change?

They didn't actually state what the change was or would be. They only got the young folks fired about the need for change and let things proceed from there. When the revolution occurred, they stepped in and change happened good and hard.

We should learn from history and be careful that we aren't being manipulated in the same way. We all want change, but are we being pushed? And if so, by whom and toward what? Any TEA Party member, even if only a pundit or an actor, who speaks of revolution in the US is immediately slapped with the kook label in the US and swept under the rug by the whole establishment in both parties and the press, even if he or she is only talking about a political revolution instead of a violent one. So how does Brand seem to get a pass? Maybe it's because TPTB like his proposed answer to the problem.

reply to post by IrishCream


Yes love the enthusiasm. The first step would be getting enough like minded people who are willing to follow through on going without modern conveniences for a while, once the moneyless community actually started. Second step would be to discuss all possibilities regarding land, skills, startup money if needed, health-hopefully we find some medically trained people, etc. If we had a large enough amount of people, and it goes well, we could put the methods and results all over the Internet. Doesn't matter if its Facebook, twitter, making a website, posting on forums, anything. If it goes viral, people will follow and it could catch like wildfire. Anyone who doesn't have anything invested into the system would jump right on board. I'm guessing people of my generation would, I'm 21, find this appealing too. I've talked to numerous friends about this, and they all say, "If only it were real." No 8-12 hour 5-6 days a week work schedules anymore, and just plain freedom to do something you love. For example: paint something beautiful, learn an instrument, gardening lots of gardening, play sports, carpentry, meeting new people, dance around a giant fire lol, whatever makes your heart sing. Of course people are going to have to be totally accepting of people from all walks of life, and maybe learn to transcend their fearful ego. IMO this is the only path to a lasting golden age. Any other path would sprout a bloody revolution, and elected leaders. Those leaders might be honest and have everyone's best intentions in mind, but 40 years later somebody would be waving money in the newly elected officials faces and the cycle would repeat. IMO money must go, a diamond should be no more valuable than a rock lying on the ground.

reply to post by Zen24


Jamestown tried this, and they all almost starved to death. How do you intend to ensure that enough people produce enough of the necessary things in life to make sure that you all have what you need to survive in amongst the painting and other beautiful things?

Believe me, I'm not laughing, but you need to have some practical consideration in your commune or else there will be too many would-be artists and not enough would-be clod farmers.

Share and share alike only works if everyone has something sustaining to put in the common pot.

Also, if you're going moneyless, how will you afford to keep the power on so that people can follow you online?

reply to post by CaticusMaximus

CaticusMaximus

So you want a capitalist, decentralized caste system?

No.

I'd advocate a form of libertarian Minarchism, because it is capable of combining the best of all worlds.

The people living in a society of decentralised, independent, minarchistic States (not Countries) could then choose their state to set up one important fiscal-political frame (as designed by Wilhelm Röpke):

To oblige employer associations and worker representatives to negotiate (autonomous of the state), as it is enshrined in the institutionalized settlement of conflicts in Germany today.
Thus securing good working conditions, solid wages, and in return a highly trained and intrinsically motivated workforce. That's about all the state interference we need.
States that would adopt this framework would offer a higher quality of life AND be more competative.
People who still disagree with this could live in another, more anarchistic (or social) state.

As I said, Russel Brand does have some good points, but centralism is against the laws of nature and ignoring natures laws will only lead to suffering.
You are free to argue against this, disagree and have a different opinion on this... nature doesn't care.

Decentralised, independent, operational bodies are protective mechanisms of nature for good reasons. Advocating even more centralism in view of the contagious situation within our already centralized systems today (in view of our latest global financial crisis for example) is just stupid (JMO).

reply to post by ketsuko


That's a good point. So let me ask you something. What is the change you want to see? Not just that, what would the first perfect civilization look like and how would it work? If you're envisioning it, can you honestly say money could be a part of it? IMO no. If all of the government officials were removed then replaced and a new form of money were created along with the freedom of capitalism. If all the money everyone has made or owes were made meaningless to start fresh, it would work for a while. Until the future generations of government forget the hardships it took to reset it all. They would be bought again, and the cycle would repeat. Technology would be suppressed if it got in the way of profit, and media would again have an agenda to manipulate. Change needs to happen but it won't be good long lasting change unless we become moneyless.

reply to post by benrl

benrl
reply to post by ColCurious

 

It's simple to grasp our current form of capitalism relies on cheap labor to profit.
Now because of the current model there is a real moral deficit, these profits come at the cost of human suffering. [...]
I'm all for capitalism but this is not it, we subsidize these company's to our own detriment.

Exactly.

ketsuko
reply to post by Zen24

 

Jamestown tried this, and they all almost starved to death. How do you intend to ensure that enough people produce enough of the necessary things in life to make sure that you all have what you need to survive in amongst the painting and other beautiful things?

Believe me, I'm not laughing, but you need to have some practical consideration in your commune or else there will be too many would-be artists and not enough would-be clod farmers.

Share and share alike only works if everyone has something sustaining to put in the common pot.

Also, if you're going moneyless, how will you afford to keep the power on so that people can follow you online?

edit on 24-10-2013 by ketsuko because: (no reason given)

It would probably require money to start it up. Large gardens in the warm months and numerous green houses in the cold months. To ensure there are enough people chipping in, 5-10 hours of work per week per person directed by someone doing scheduling. Yes it would require a lot of consideration and planning beforehand. It would not be smart to just jump into this, but we are conscious beings and I believe cooperation and determination can accomplish anything we can imagine. The power problem would be one to discuss in length, perhaps generators and corn fuel??? Not sure, but if we have 100 people someone will come up with something.

Kangaruex4Ewe
I like Russel Brand very much and I started paying a lot more attention to him after seeing this...

I was guilty of underestimating him as well until I watched that. He really seems to have his finger on the pulse of things. He is in an excellent position because HE IS underestimated. The interviewers are caught off guard and can't quite refute a lot of what he says when they are "ambushed" by his intellect. It takes longer to think of a good lie than it does to tell the truth so they have little time to recover and pretty up any type of fake response.

It's not over until the fat lady sings IMO. He has the right idea (mostly) I think.

edit on 10/23/2013 by Kangaruex4Ewe because: (no reason given)

Honestly, I enjoy Russel Brand everynow and then too. However, I cannot see anything from the link you posted that would lead anyone to believe he has "his finger on the pulse of things." He's a comedian, and just an OK one at that, IMO. But to raise the level that he has some intellect that is moving and motivational I think is way over blown. I see nothing but a plug for his show, some flirtations and quite honestly a waste of 8 minutes of air time. Not seeing anything that makes me believe he has any clue about a revolution or how it would even begin to amass. Just my opinion, but I really see nothing. Peace!

i removed this post,

Russell Brand is a legend. : )

Muzz

Zen24

ketsuko
reply to post by Zen24

 

Jamestown tried this, and they all almost starved to death. How do you intend to ensure that enough people produce enough of the necessary things in life to make sure that you all have what you need to survive in amongst the painting and other beautiful things?

Believe me, I'm not laughing, but you need to have some practical consideration in your commune or else there will be too many would-be artists and not enough would-be clod farmers.

Share and share alike only works if everyone has something sustaining to put in the common pot.

Also, if you're going moneyless, how will you afford to keep the power on so that people can follow you online?

edit on 24-10-2013 by ketsuko because: (no reason given)

It would probably require money to start it up. Large gardens in the warm months and numerous green houses in the cold months. To ensure there are enough people chipping in, 5-10 hours of work per week per person directed by someone doing scheduling. Yes it would require a lot of consideration and planning beforehand. It would not be smart to just jump into this, but we are conscious beings and I believe cooperation and determination can accomplish anything we can imagine. The power problem would be one to discuss in length, perhaps generators and corn fuel??? Not sure, but if we have 100 people someone will come up with something.

As long as there is money then there is potential to start the cycle all over again. You are right that essentially it would require a minimum number of hours for each person to contribute to the development/maintenance of the community. If a village of a 1000 people had each individual contribute 3 hours per week thats 3000 man hours going towards the community. Then the rest of the time people can be encouraged to follow their natural abilities and do what they're good at, what they actually want to do.

You should listen to what Michael Tellinger has to say about his vision of Ubuntu communities. The man has put some thought into it and is convincing in his explanation. I posted you some links here - www.abovetopsecret.com...

reply to post by heliopolis


Ok thanks ill check it out. Does he plan on starting a community anytime soon?

Well considering he was married to Kate Perry, who has on camera admitted to "selling her soul to the devil", which anyone on this site should know its true meaning. He saw how the inner circle works, and would go a long way to explaining the 'divorce' and his current stance.

Russell obviously didn't want to play the game, but Kate Perry went on playing. Russell was probably given the ultimatum, which he rejected, and now after this clip, he'll probably have an "overdose" and then Kate Perry will fulfil her duties to the devil by then coming and speaking of his drug abuse that would then make the average pleb instantly believe it was just another user using too much !

I hope I'm wrong, but if history keeps on repeating itself like it does, then Russell Brand just signed his own death certificate. But I have nothing but respect for him taking a stance that could very realistically take his life.

Zen24
reply to post by heliopolis

 

Ok thanks ill check it out. Does he plan on starting a community anytime soon?

I think he is but I'm not entirely sure. He explains in more detail in the vid. And I'm sure he has a website where you can sign up free of charge for more info. I'd be interested to know what you think once you get chance to watch the video.

reply to post by benrl


Brand is simply for a socialist Police State with his nice sweet people in control.

George Washington and Vladimir Lenin both reminded us that Government is Power backed by Force. Washington advised us to bind it down with the chains of the Constitution and to love Liberty, while Lenin had no such constraints on his ideas.