rape prevention , by " teaching men not to rape " a concept ?

starfoxxx

SearchLightsInc

Scorchio
reply to post by SearchLightsInc

 

I'm only too glad to provide some entertainment.

Seriously though, the concept that all men are rapists and need to be taught not to rape is laughable. I see it as a complete lack of self control and discipline, probably stemming from a young age. Call it poor parenting or the failings of modern day society but that applies to both sexes. It's an individual problem and not a gender problem.

I agree that its wrong to label all men as potential rapist's but let me tell you, when im walking home in the dark and i see a man anywhere in the area, you bet your bottom dollar that just for a second, i consider how much of a threat he is to me.

ESPECIALLY IF it is a BIG BLACK man!!!!

Aye, i trust African men even less. Im not going to be ashamed for trusting my instincts over being politically correct.

captaintyinknots

MALBOSIA

captaintyinknots

MALBOSIA
Feminists really need to get with the program and join the
world of equality.

How singled out would women feel if we decided yo teach them
not to kill their own children?

Women who harbor unhealthy distaste for men should be treated like
any biggot. As well as be threated with charges of hate crimes when
they publish anti-male propoganda.

We do single them out....we just tell them that they shouldnt be a victim. That it is their fault if they dress a certain way and end up getting raped.

Saying men should be taught not to rape is not man hate. Hell, I AM A MAN. What it is is an attempt at a new approach to a hugely out of control problem-a problem that the current approach is not doing a thing about.

Who tells them its their fault? I have never heard that in my life except
spewing from the lips of some man-hating feminist.

I didnt post in this thread to argue, only to share opinion. But you quoted
my post and used it as a soap box to push a pro-victim agenda.

So, youve never heard a woman being told that they should not dress a certain way, or act a ertain way, because it invites rape? Thats called victim blame my friend. The idea that women should prevent themselves from being raped is blaming the victim.

'pro-victim'? Are you kidding me? Are you 'anti-victim'?

Just asinine.

I already said that I have never heard anyone say it is women's fault for inviting rape. Read the post you quoted me on. Have I heard awareness programs that claim that? yes. Do I believe it? about as much as everything else that I have seen on TV and read online or in print. I am not trying to be confrontational with that claim, it is only to point out that never in a real conversation with real people or anyone that I know personally would think that. Clearly EarthCitizen is someone I have never met personally (Sorry to single you out EarthCitizen but the proximity of you statement to my claim forces my hand) so my argument is sort of moot at this point. Maybe I live in a bubble - this is Canada - but to say men blame women for rape because they dress hot (thank god) seems to me as you would put it. Asinine.

I don't know. I am not taking any position on 'women's choice of clothing invites rape'. You have put words in my mouth at every reply.

Nobody I know would consider an argument like that and that is a fact, not an argument.

This is some sort of picket sign reeducation and it sounds ridiculous.

SearchLightsInc

I agree that its wrong to label all men as potential rapist's but let me tell you, when im walking home in the dark and i see a man anywhere in the area, you bet your bottom dollar that just for a second, i consider how much of a threat he is to me.

They also teach "say no to drugs", "practice safe sex and birth control"....and we all know how far we have progressed. Society itself is rotten. As long as politics and msm continue being depraved like they are nothing will change.

I sympathise to an extent, but what more do you want? Carry a gun if it makes you feel safer. That is what the second amendment is for, self defense. Just be careful not to get paranoid and shoot everyone with the slightest suspicion.

Sorry, replied to the wrong poster initially. Now corrected.

reply to post by ignorant_ape


Your verbiage needs tweaking.. So are you claiming only men rape? Teach all men not to rape? Teach those who have raped, not to repeat? I'm confused..

Woman also commit rape, what of them?

Those morons who choose castration for those accused.. What about all the false claims? One fairly recent msm one that comes to mind is the lacrosse team that was accused of raping a black female student.. Come to find out she lied..

Many woman have falsely accused men..

Now before the baskets come at me, I have a close family member who was raped, and I by no means make light of the terrible crime of rape.. But, if you can teach a rapist not to rape.. Why stop there.. Teach them not to murder, steal, lie..

This is stupid and supposedly has been in operation for a long time.. It's called rehabilitation..

reply to post by taoistguy


Let's separate stranger rape vs. boyfriend / date rape. I am talking of the gray area of buyers regret or starting something and him not being able to stop and I believe all men get to that point in sex where they are going to complete the act. Let's say a young man who is overly excited, she is finally going through with all her teasing of the past 3 months, he is inside of her and after a couple minutes if he lasts that long (sad I know) she says "no" and he can't help it and ejaculates. So, is that rape? I mean, at what point does she play some role in the situation?

You know, I really don't mind feminism at all. However I absolutely can't stand when it manifests as sexism. the whole "teach men not to rape" is silly. If someone is going to commit such an egregious offense it is not out of not knowing. It's a power and authority issue that isn't going to suddenly wiped a way with a few pamphlets and a stern finger wagging.

It saddens me when any group dedicated to self empowerment becomes EXACTLY what they are fighting. It seems any good idea will always come full circle. Man = Person, Woman = Person, we all need to stop using this over tired excuse to treat each other badly.

Also I generally think this is a terrible concept and would detract from the real problem at work, mental health. People need to be able to, at any time, go and see a psychologist.

Regards,
THF

UnifiedSerenity
reply to post by taoistguy

 

Let's separate stranger rape vs. boyfriend / date rape. I am talking of the gray area of buyers regret or starting something and him not being able to stop and I believe all men get to that point in sex where they are going to complete the act. Let's say a young man who is overly excited, she is finally going through with all her teasing of the past 3 months, he is inside of her and after a couple minutes if he lasts that long (sad I know) she says "no" and he can't help it and ejaculates. So, is that rape? I mean, at what point does she play some role in the situation?

Interesting hypothetical situation. But I'll play along.
You imply she said yes to him ands so willingly accepted his penetration. Then she changes her mind and says no. But at that moment he ejaculates? Well, if he makes no attempt to withdraw due to her saying no then he is going against her wishes and it is rape. ejaculation is not rape. unwanted penetration is rape. Is he wearing a condom?
Also, why is it the woman that is labelled with "all that teasing"? You make a lot of loaded statements in your post.

UnifiedSerenity
reply to post by taoistguy

 

Let's separate stranger rape vs. boyfriend / date rape. I am talking of the gray area of buyers regret or starting something and him not being able to stop and I believe all men get to that point in sex where they are going to complete the act. Let's say a young man who is overly excited, she is finally going through with all her teasing of the past 3 months, he is inside of her and after a couple minutes if he lasts that long (sad I know) she says "no" and he can't help it and ejaculates. So, is that rape? I mean, at what point does she play some role in the situation?

If it gets that far, chances are it wasn't rape to begin with. I wonder how many people are doing jail time for gray area rape and repeated cases of sexual harrasment. You shouldn't start something you dont plan on finishing(not you personally).

Rape should be defined as forceful sex from the beginning to the end. No gray area BS.

reply to post by EarthCitizen07


Ok, so if a woman does some heavy kissing is she saying ok to sex? What if it's touching does that give him / her permission to have sex? If not, then what do you classify it as?

reply to post by taoistguy
[mor

I would like to point out that "Teaching men not to rape" is a pretty loaded statement as well. That one sentence brings about a whole lot of assumption. First and foremost it implies that all men are capable of rape. This is untrue take Steven Hawking as an example. Secondly it implies that rape is solely perpetrated by men. This is also untrue. Finally it implies that through some process of education you can teach basic human empathy. Wholly untrue.

I think of the individuals of us who are capable of feeling empathy should start practicing it more often, don't you?

UnifiedSerenity
reply to post by EarthCitizen07

 

Ok, so if a woman does some heavy kissing is she saying ok to sex? What if it's touching does that give him / her permission to have sex? If not, then what do you classify it as?

I am implying the moment sexual intercourse starts. Not kissing or anything else. If the law is too liberal like I suspect it is, then lots of people are going to be doing jail time for no good reason.

theHattersfolly
reply to post by taoistguy
[mor

I would like to point out that "Teaching men not to rape" is a pretty loaded statement as well. That one sentence brings about a whole lot of assumption. First and foremost it implies that all men are capable of rape. This is untrue take Steven Hawking as an example. Secondly it implies that rape is solely perpetrated by men. This is also untrue. Finally it implies that through some process of education you can teach basic human empathy. Wholly untrue.

I think of the individuals of us who are capable of feeling empathy should start practicing it more often, don't you?

I take it you haven't read my post(s) that suggest reading my previous posts where myself (and others) have already explained and answered your questions about the phrase and about "all men"? :\

And I disagree that Hawking in incapable of rape.
Also, I'd like to ask you a question: If a man inserts a finger or some other objetc into a vagina against the woman's permission, would you consider that rape?

reply to post by taoistguy


Did you? I read the first 5 pages and I saw an amazing amount of gender bashing on both sides so I decided to skip to the end. I'm sure you are not trying to be funny? Unwanted physical contact is wrong I am not sure why you are even asking me that question. And in this strange hypothetical conversation about Steven Hawking, No I do no believe him capable of rape. the man can barely move his finger to type words let alone assert authority over someone's body. Did you intend to mean that the mere thought of a sexual advance not yet rejected nor accepted is rape?

How about death by pitbull. does that work?

theHattersfolly
reply to post by taoistguy

 

Did you? I read the first 5 pages and I saw an amazing amount of gender bashing on both sides so I decided to skip to the end. I'm sure you are not trying to be funny? Unwanted physical contact is wrong I am not sure why you are even asking me that question. And in this strange hypothetical conversation about Steven Hawking, No I do no believe him capable of rape. the man can barely move his finger to type words let alone assert authority over someone's body. Did you intend to mean that the mere thought of a sexual advance not yet rejected nor accepted is rape?

Agreed that reading a whole thread is daunting and most people (myself included) often skim through threads making forums not really the best place for a serious discussion.

And as for Hawking, (you started the hypothetical Hawking idea), he can get help from others in order to carry out a rape, therefore he is not incapable of it.

The thought of raping someone is not rape; rape is the physical act.

reply to post by taoistguy


Normally I read the entire thread. However it is actually rather painful for me to read veiled insults and hypocrisy (both sides of the argument are guilty of this in this thread). Haha I enjoy this conversation. I wasn't being condescending about the Hawking thing was I? I mean i think that is a huge stretch that Mr. Hawking could or would hire people to help him rape. I think its entirely outside the scope of reality. It just seems that when it comes down to it the blanketing rape to a gender is pretty ridiculous when in truth the act of rape is quite outside the realm of sexuality and more so in the realm of Authority and Control. Would you not agree with that statement?

theHattersfolly
reply to post by taoistguy

 

Normally I read the entire thread. However it is actually rather painful for me to read veiled insults and hypocrisy (both sides of the argument are guilty of this in this thread). Haha I enjoy this conversation. I wasn't being condescending about the Hawking thing was I? I mean i think that is a huge stretch that Mr. Hawking could or would hire people to help him rape. I think its entirely outside the scope of reality. It just seems that when it comes down to it the blanketing rape to a gender is pretty ridiculous when in truth the act of rape is quite outside the realm of sexuality and more so in the realm of Authority and Control. Would you not agree with that statement?

I've seen it said that forums is pretty much akin to standing in a busy city centre and shouting statements out to a vast array of varied random strangers. I pretty much agree. LOL

Yes, you were essentially being condescending to Hawking, but by and by, even though you are correct that that scenario is highly unlikely it still doesn't make it impossible and so he is as much in the same boat as us in terms of actually having the ability one way or another.

My previous posts (and other posters) have previously said that we acknowledge women can also rape, but the percentage of women who do is so miniscule compared to men that it makes the concept of the thread title justifiable in being emblematic and suggests a lot more than at face value.

Yes. authority and control. But I would also add power. And it is predominantly men who have access to all that.

reply to post by taoistguy


Well sure anything is possible, but it is so highly unlikely that he could not readily rape on a whim. In my mind that excludes him from being capable.

My biggest issue with the concept of "Teaching men not to rape" is that it is insulting and it is impossible to teach someone to have empathy for another person. So it is insulting and ineffective. The issue absolutely is about mental health and making sure people have access to it, in my eyes. I just think the slogan sets a dangerous precedent. and in truth every time someone says it I kind of die a little inside. Generally speaking in my head I say something to the effect of "Noooo gender bashing is bad" Because if said aloud I'd be accused of insensitivity to a serious issue and, to be absolutely honest, I'd be lumped in.

reply to post by theHattersfolly


I'd be much more accepting of the phrase "Teach people that assertion of authority over people is wrong" that would be perfectly acceptable

and seriously with the availability of firearms gender plays literally no role over how much power someone weilds

taoistguy

luciddream
reply to post by taoistguy

 

It was a rebuttal for assuming "men normally rape" because "teach men not to rape" is essentially saying the same thing.. and it is one of the top phrase feminist use.

So i said they should be appreciative of what i did because i didn't rape them like they claim a man would.

In general, men rape. The number of reported, (meaning this does not include all the unreported rapes), rapes is staggeringly huge. Not to mention failed and attempted rapes, non-rape sexual abuse aloso.
I think the feminists have a very valid point.

"in general, men rape"


Really?

So then by your messed up view of the world, "most" men rape women?

I have never, and do not know a single man who has, raped a woman.

I didn't even have sex with my wife if she wasn't into it, even though she would say ok, I knew she didn't want to, so I rolled over and went to sleep, or if the want was bad enough went to the bathroom and masterdebated.

Sorry to burst your bubble here, but from my experience, most men want the woman to want it, or it is not worth doing.

I only enjoy it if they do, even in the midst of "congress", if I can tell she isn't enjoying herself I will just stop.....whats that old saying about getting off on her getting off?

It happens, man wants "some" wifey doesn't, man roles over goes to sleep, tries again tomorrow